Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

[salans7]

One is, I think, that the TTB brackets bolt into the two recessed places.

This is unique to the F250 and F350 4x4, apparently even the solid axle trucks. Good to know.

Also notice the extra frame brace on the passenger rail that is non-existent on coil sprung trucks. Just another task I will have to figure out at some point since my formerly coil sprung frame lacks that extra bracing for the leafs.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

..... it does look like I'll want to weld the rear side of the cross member to the frame, like the factory did. I don't know, yet, if Big Blue's cross member is welded, but there's gonna be a LOT of work getting that rascal out.

Don't you own a plasma cutter Gary?

A carbon gouge arc rod would work, but not as cleanly.

Yes, the TTB pivot bushings are bolted to the bottom of the cross member.

I think you are going to find it VERY difficult to get the cross member back in to Big Blue without deflecting the frame rails.

Perhaps instead of bracing the frame rails with box tubing, another approach would be to make a plate that locates off the holes in the ends where the bumper is.

Remove it to allow the frame to spread, get the butchered cross member out, the donor in, reattach it before bolting and welding the new one back.

Or, just cut a patch out of the F-350 cross member and replace the section as first mentioned when you showed us the problem.

This would certainly be more expedient and perhaps better chance of success.

Tremendous job getting the clip clean without resorting to NaOH or Purple Power.

I'm sure your trailer is grateful.

 

[Gary Lewis]

..... it does look like I'll want to weld the rear side of the cross member to the frame, like the factory did. I don't know, yet, if Big Blue's cross member is welded, but there's gonna be a LOT of work getting that rascal out.

Don't you own a plasma cutter Gary?

A carbon gouge arc rod would work, but not as cleanly.

Yes, the TTB pivot bushings are bolted to the bottom of the cross member.

I think you are going to find it VERY difficult to get the cross member back in to Big Blue without deflecting the frame rails.

Perhaps instead of bracing the frame rails with box tubing, another approach would be to make a plate that locates off the holes in the ends where the bumper is.

Remove it to allow the frame to spread, get the butchered cross member out, the donor in, reattach it before bolting and welding the new one back.

Or, just cut a patch out of the F-350 cross member and replace the section as first mentioned when you showed us the problem.

This would certainly be more expedient and perhaps better chance of success.

Tremendous job getting the clip clean without resorting to NaOH or Purple Power.

I'm sure your trailer is grateful.

Shaun - Until yesterday I didn't know that frame brace, or frame liner, existed. I'm going to have to check Big Blue and see if he has one.

Jim - I'm coming around to your suggestion of welding a piece from this cross member into Big Blue. Taking out the rivets was one thing when I was looking at Dad's truck and seeing the several rivets holding it in. But then seeing the frame brace/liner on both the driver's and the passenger's side that is riveted to the cross member added more misery. Then the fact that the cross member is welded to the frame on each end added insult to the misery.

I thought long and hard last night about using the technique in Steve's link to graft on the front section of the frame. But I'm not comfortable with that. And, the '95 frame has the wrong "horns" on the front so won't take the bumper. Right?

Yes, I have a plasma cutter. So I could cut Big Blue's cross member to take out all of the sawzall cuts, and then take out a similar piece from the '95 cross member. Grind and shape it to fit, and weld it back in. And, with the engine and front suspension out I can probably even get to the bottom side to not only weld there, but to fishplate it. LOTS less work and a MUCH higher probability of keeping the frame lined up.

What this plan says is that I should NOT spend time taking this cross member out. Instead get the rest of the stuff off the frame, and then strip the D60 down to the axle housing and diff and take it out to be gone through and the ring & pinion as well as the Ox locker installed. Then I can turn my attention to pulling the engine out of Big Blue, testing and rebuilding it, repairing the frame & cross member, etc.

Sounds like a much better plan to me. And, by the way, the document in the first post of Big Blue's Transformation has now been modified to reflect this new plan. And, I have ticked off one box! I'm one the way!

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Shaun - Until yesterday I didn't know that frame brace, or frame liner, existed. I'm going to have to check Big Blue and see if he has one.

Jim - I'm coming around to your suggestion of welding a piece from this cross member into Big Blue. Taking out the rivets was one thing when I was looking at Dad's truck and seeing the several rivets holding it in. But then seeing the frame brace/liner on both the driver's and the passenger's side that is riveted to the cross member added more misery. Then the fact that the cross member is welded to the frame on each end added insult to the misery.

I thought long and hard last night about using the technique in Steve's link to graft on the front section of the frame. But I'm not comfortable with that. And, the '95 frame has the wrong "horns" on the front so won't take the bumper. Right?

Yes, I have a plasma cutter. So I could cut Big Blue's cross member to take out all of the sawzall cuts, and then take out a similar piece from the '95 cross member. Grind and shape it to fit, and weld it back in. And, with the engine and front suspension out I can probably even get to the bottom side to not only weld there, but to fishplate it. LOTS less work and a MUCH higher probability of keeping the frame lined up.

What this plan says is that I should NOT spend time taking this cross member out. Instead get the rest of the stuff off the frame, and then strip the D60 down to the axle housing and diff and take it out to be gone through and the ring & pinion as well as the Ox locker installed. Then I can turn my attention to pulling the engine out of Big Blue, testing and rebuilding it, repairing the frame & cross member, etc.

Sounds like a much better plan to me. And, by the way, the document in the first post of Big Blue's Transformation has now been modified to reflect this new plan. And, I have ticked off one box! I'm one the way!

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I think it was bullnosehunter that first suggested welding material back in.

I might go tangent to the top of each oval opening and straight from the center of each to connect them.

There's room to clamp the sections into alignment, it will be easy to dress the ends of your beads AND you will get both sets of 460 perch holes in one piece along with two bends or 'flanges' that will keep that most important part straight (not straight, but as it should be)

[Gary Lewis]

I think it was bullnosehunter that first suggested welding material back in.

I might go tangent to the top of each oval opening and straight from the center of each to connect them.

There's room to clamp the sections into alignment, it will be easy to dress the ends of your beads AND you will get both sets of 460 perch holes in one piece along with two bends or 'flanges' that will keep that most important part straight (not straight, but as it should be)

Jim - I'm not 100% sure I understand what you suggested. What I didn't understand was "straight from the center of each to connect them".

But I think you are saying to take a section as shown below, and on the back side go all the way down and take the lip.

However, that probably wouldn't get all of the 460 perch holes as there's apparently one further towards the center from the left line, above. It would be the one on the left, below. But, might it not be good to leave that one as part of the original cross member and use the perch to help align the patch by bolting through both an old and new hole? Plus, doing so bridges the weld, providing some strength.

But, it would also mean that the weld would have to be dressed smooth for the perch to fit flush.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - I'm not 100% sure I understand what you suggested. What I didn't understand was "straight from the center of each to connect them".

But I think you are saying to take a section as shown below, and on the back side go all the way down and take the lip.

However, that probably wouldn't get all of the 460 perch holes as there's apparently one further towards the center from the left line, above. It would be the one on the left, below. But, might it not be good to leave that one as part of the original cross member and use the perch to help align the patch by bolting through both an old and new hole? Plus, doing so bridges the weld, providing some strength.

But, it would also mean that the weld would have to be dressed smooth for the perch to fit flush.

I guess I'm still having a hard time fathoming what your close up shots of the underside of the cross member actually show.

I'd thought the rear oval holes had been opened up close to the bolts of the perches.

My suggestion was to cut straight back from the top of each of the rear holes and cut all the way down, and back up, to the other rear hole.

This would give you a 'U' shaped piece with the bolt holes for both perches.

But obviously I don't really understand the extent of the damage.

[Gary Lewis]

I guess I'm still having a hard time fathoming what your close up shots of the underside of the cross member actually show.

I'd thought the rear oval holes had been opened up close to the bolts of the perches.

My suggestion was to cut straight back from the top of each of the rear holes and cut all the way down, and back up, to the other rear hole.

This would give you a 'U' shaped piece with the bolt holes for both perches.

But obviously I don't really understand the extent of the damage.

I don't think any of understand the extent of the damage. I've studied the pics many times, and still do not fully understand. Yesterday's pics of what the rear of the cross member looks like where the 460's perch holes are help, but since you can't get a true end-to-end view of Big Blue's cross member given that the engine and front suspension are in, there's no way to know for sure.

I don't think we are far apart on our ideas, but let's just agree that when the engine and suspension are out and the degreasing is done on BB, we can come back to this issue and craft a plan.

For today I'm going to finish up on Dad's truck by bolting the cab down, then roll it forward to give access to the lift, and putt-putt the trailer in so I can pick that front clip up with the rear arms of the lift and set it on the floor - or on those pallets. Then I can start disassembling things and maybe tick off another box in the plan.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't think any of understand the extent of the damage. I've studied the pics many times, and still do not fully understand. Yesterday's pics of what the rear of the cross member looks like where the 460's perch holes are help, but since you can't get a true end-to-end view of Big Blue's cross member given that the engine and front suspension are in, there's no way to know for sure.

I don't think we are far apart on our ideas, but let's just agree that when the engine and suspension are out and the degreasing is done on BB, we can come back to this issue and craft a plan.

For today I'm going to finish up on Dad's truck by bolting the cab down, then roll it forward to give access to the lift, and putt-putt the trailer in so I can pick that front clip up with the rear arms of the lift and set it on the floor - or on those pallets. Then I can start disassembling things and maybe tick off another box in the plan.

Maybe you should put BB up and look for the clunk before getting into the F-350 clip?

It would enable you to get a more complete picture:nabble_smiley_wink: of the damage.

[85lebaront2]

Shaun - Until yesterday I didn't know that frame brace, or frame liner, existed. I'm going to have to check Big Blue and see if he has one.

Jim - I'm coming around to your suggestion of welding a piece from this cross member into Big Blue. Taking out the rivets was one thing when I was looking at Dad's truck and seeing the several rivets holding it in. But then seeing the frame brace/liner on both the driver's and the passenger's side that is riveted to the cross member added more misery. Then the fact that the cross member is welded to the frame on each end added insult to the misery.

I thought long and hard last night about using the technique in Steve's link to graft on the front section of the frame. But I'm not comfortable with that. And, the '95 frame has the wrong "horns" on the front so won't take the bumper. Right?

Yes, I have a plasma cutter. So I could cut Big Blue's cross member to take out all of the sawzall cuts, and then take out a similar piece from the '95 cross member. Grind and shape it to fit, and weld it back in. And, with the engine and front suspension out I can probably even get to the bottom side to not only weld there, but to fishplate it. LOTS less work and a MUCH higher probability of keeping the frame lined up.

What this plan says is that I should NOT spend time taking this cross member out. Instead get the rest of the stuff off the frame, and then strip the D60 down to the axle housing and diff and take it out to be gone through and the ring & pinion as well as the Ox locker installed. Then I can turn my attention to pulling the engine out of Big Blue, testing and rebuilding it, repairing the frame & cross member, etc.

Sounds like a much better plan to me. And, by the way, the document in the first post of Big Blue's Transformation has now been modified to reflect this new plan. And, I have ticked off one box! I'm one the way!

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Gary, without seeing the front of the 1995 frame I can't say, but, you do not have a stock bumper. Bullnose stock bumpers are attached with 4 chrome capped bolts and two side braces, the 4 bolts go directly into the rolled in end of the frame rails (look at Dad's) the side braces attach to the sides of the frame (dad's should have those also) 1987 up, the bumper is attached to the sides of the rails with four bolts and two nut plates, the holes are slotted vertically if I remember correctly and the Sky kit appears to use those holes as part of it's mounting. I don't have any good pictures of my bumper mounts, but can probably get some for you.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, without seeing the front of the 1995 frame I can't say, but, you do not have a stock bumper. Bullnose stock bumpers are attached with 4 chrome capped bolts and two side braces, the 4 bolts go directly into the rolled in end of the frame rails (look at Dad's) the side braces attach to the sides of the frame (dad's should have those also) 1987 up, the bumper is attached to the sides of the rails with four bolts and two nut plates, the holes are slotted vertically if I remember correctly and the Sky kit appears to use those holes as part of it's mounting. I don't have any good pictures of my bumper mounts, but can probably get some for you.

Jim - Janey just helped me check out BB. With the engine running there's no perceptible movement of the bumper from what she could see.

But, with the engine off so I could be under it, when she turned the wheel the tie rod rotates on the tie rod ends. By that I mean that it spins and then it hits the neck of the ball joint in the tie rod and it stops with a clunk. Go the other way and it spins and goes clunk.

I've never encountered that, but if that's the problem then it isn't a problem as that will get replaced.

Bill - You are right, I don't have a factory bumper. But I don't think from what I can see that my bumper would bolt up properly to the '95 bumper as the profile is different. Given that and my serious reluctance to cut the frame and weld this one on, I'm probably going to do as Jim and I've been discussing and cut a piece out of the 95's cross member and weld it into BB. So, thanks but I don't think pics will be needed.

Is that what you were meaning?