E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds like you had an informative conversation with Steve. It almost sounds like 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other between Steve and Charles. The only factor I noticed was Steve sounds more inclined to keep the parts bill down by letting you be a little more selective on what to use. However, I dont think it is going to be an earth shattering savings like maybe $200-$300. Dont get me wrong it is enough money to consider. Steve may even have a good line on cheap cores if you wanted upgraded parts.

I am a little hesitant to push or sell you one way or the other because I did recommend an interior shop to a guy that didnt create a good experience...

First, do both of us a favor and FORGET that upholstery shop, using the term loosely. PLEASE! That almost makes me cry, and it wasn't your fault.

Anyway, if I had to chose today I'd go with Charles. It isn't a big difference, but I just got a better warm fuzzy with him. For instance, he was planning to make all of those Ford upgrades, and yet it looks like his price will be very comparable to Steve's. Part of that may be because Charles seems to have plenty of cores around and may be thinking of using a later model one just to get the upgrades.

And, Steve seemed to be saying to get a drain plug I'll have to buy an aluminum pan, which Charles seemed to be saying he'd just use a later model pan that he has on hand.

But, that's all conjecture at this point as I'll not be making any decisions until I get Steve's proposal. And then I may go back to Charles to get more clarity so I can compare the two proposals. Either way, it looks like there are competent people in the T-town area that will build a good E4 for about 1/2 what the "big boys" want.

Oh, and Steve doesn't know Charles. Has heard of Aspen, but doesn't know anything good or bad about them.

[Gary Lewis]

*inferior* shop.....

Inferior interior.

[Gary Lewis]

First, do both of us a favor and FORGET that upholstery shop, using the term loosely. PLEASE! That almost makes me cry, and it wasn't your fault.

Anyway, if I had to chose today I'd go with Charles. It isn't a big difference, but I just got a better warm fuzzy with him. For instance, he was planning to make all of those Ford upgrades, and yet it looks like his price will be very comparable to Steve's. Part of that may be because Charles seems to have plenty of cores around and may be thinking of using a later model one just to get the upgrades.

And, Steve seemed to be saying to get a drain plug I'll have to buy an aluminum pan, which Charles seemed to be saying he'd just use a later model pan that he has on hand.

But, that's all conjecture at this point as I'll not be making any decisions until I get Steve's proposal. And then I may go back to Charles to get more clarity so I can compare the two proposals. Either way, it looks like there are competent people in the T-town area that will build a good E4 for about 1/2 what the "big boys" want.

Oh, and Steve doesn't know Charles. Has heard of Aspen, but doesn't know anything good or bad about them.

As an update, Brandon and I had a phone conversation last evening that pointed out something that had been bothering me about what Steve said but I’d really not realized. He apparently told Brandon in a face-to-face conversation that he thinks a good “stock” build would be what I need. And in our conversation he said a “stockish” build might suit me.

My problem with that idea is that I don’t know what he means by “stock”. Part of my confusion is because there was, obviously, no stock E4OD for a 1981 F150. Second, Ford apparently put several upgrades in the transmission through the 90’s. From what I can decipher from the Baumann site:

• In 1992 they installed a revised sun gear and rear case bushings to provide longer wear life and better lubrication. In addition they added 4-pinion planet carriers on some models.

• In 1994 they installed a thicker converter clutch piston, which prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip. Further, 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replaced older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads. And, there was a center support update kit which replaced a wear-prone bushing with a ball bearing and contained a new overdrive stub shaft.

• In 1995 they added a higher displacement front pump, which provides more fluid capacity for faster engagement of reverse and greater lube flow.

• In addition, somewhere along the way they added a stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge. And, new forward clutch friction plates with hardened internal splines to cure "chatter" and "no-drive conditions.

So I’m having a hard time understanding “stock” or “stockish”. But if any of you see what I’m missing please enlighten me. Hopefully Steve’s proposal will shed some light on it as well.

[NotEnoughTrucks]

As an update, Brandon and I had a phone conversation last evening that pointed out something that had been bothering me about what Steve said but I’d really not realized. He apparently told Brandon in a face-to-face conversation that he thinks a good “stock” build would be what I need. And in our conversation he said a “stockish” build might suit me.

My problem with that idea is that I don’t know what he means by “stock”. Part of my confusion is because there was, obviously, no stock E4OD for a 1981 F150. Second, Ford apparently put several upgrades in the transmission through the 90’s. From what I can decipher from the Baumann site:

• In 1992 they installed a revised sun gear and rear case bushings to provide longer wear life and better lubrication. In addition they added 4-pinion planet carriers on some models.

• In 1994 they installed a thicker converter clutch piston, which prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip. Further, 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replaced older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads. And, there was a center support update kit which replaced a wear-prone bushing with a ball bearing and contained a new overdrive stub shaft.

• In 1995 they added a higher displacement front pump, which provides more fluid capacity for faster engagement of reverse and greater lube flow.

• In addition, somewhere along the way they added a stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge. And, new forward clutch friction plates with hardened internal splines to cure "chatter" and "no-drive conditions.

So I’m having a hard time understanding “stock” or “stockish”. But if any of you see what I’m missing please enlighten me. Hopefully Steve’s proposal will shed some light on it as well.

I think the upgrades are a given, even in a "stock" build.

I have had a couple E4OD's over the years. I don't think internal modifications are necessary with the possible exception of a converter. I snapped one on my E350 7.3 IDI powered motorhome. Got a replacement with a "billet snout" whatever that may be. Any other mods would best be served by trying to keep it cool. Those transmissions do not like heat!

As for rebuilding, I have my favorite up in Winnipeg, Manitoba and my reasoning is that Ultra Transmissions is the only local rebuilder with a transmission dyno, so he runs up each rebuild before it goes to the customer. Some low priced shops do not do this. I have been very happy with this service.

[Gary Lewis]

I think the upgrades are a given, even in a "stock" build.

I have had a couple E4OD's over the years. I don't think internal modifications are necessary with the possible exception of a converter. I snapped one on my E350 7.3 IDI powered motorhome. Got a replacement with a "billet snout" whatever that may be. Any other mods would best be served by trying to keep it cool. Those transmissions do not like heat!

As for rebuilding, I have my favorite up in Winnipeg, Manitoba and my reasoning is that Ultra Transmissions is the only local rebuilder with a transmission dyno, so he runs up each rebuild before it goes to the customer. Some low priced shops do not do this. I have been very happy with this service.

Thanks for the reply. I think we are thinking alike on the "stock" build. If Ford thought the upgrades were necessary then why would I think they aren't?

As for other modifications, there are two that I'm thinking would be good - the number and quality of the clutch plates, and the torque converter. My limited knowledge says that Ford used more clutch plates in the transmissions behind the bigger engines than those behind the smaller engines. So, I'd like to ensure I have enough to handle the torque of this engine, which is a bit more than a stock 460 but not nearly as much as a stock diesel. And on the torque converter I want one that is going to handle the load w/o slipping, and generating heat.

Last, you've said something that reminded me of something Steve said that I forgot to document. He doesn't dyno all of the transmissions that he builds as the dyno is at the school where he teaches. But, that implies that he will dyno them, and it would be nice to know that it works well before I put it in the truck.

[85lebaront2]

Thanks for the reply. I think we are thinking alike on the "stock" build. If Ford thought the upgrades were necessary then why would I think they aren't?

As for other modifications, there are two that I'm thinking would be good - the number and quality of the clutch plates, and the torque converter. My limited knowledge says that Ford used more clutch plates in the transmissions behind the bigger engines than those behind the smaller engines. So, I'd like to ensure I have enough to handle the torque of this engine, which is a bit more than a stock 460 but not nearly as much as a stock diesel. And on the torque converter I want one that is going to handle the load w/o slipping, and generating heat.

Last, you've said something that reminded me of something Steve said that I forgot to document. He doesn't dyno all of the transmissions that he builds as the dyno is at the school where he teaches. But, that implies that he will dyno them, and it would be nice to know that it works well before I put it in the truck.

The secret on keeping it cool, is lock up the clutch as early as practical, let the engine do the work like it does for a manual.

[Gary Lewis]

The secret on keeping it cool, is lock up the clutch as early as practical, let the engine do the work like it does for a manual.

Sounds like a good plan. And one you can tell me how to do when the time comes. 👍

[Bruno2]

Sounds like a good plan. And one you can tell me how to do when the time comes. 👍

I dont know just how necessary a dyno run is. I think it would be nice, but not necessary. All shops air test the trannies to make sure everything is functioning. An auto tranny is fairly simple and to someone that has built them for years I am sure they are more than simple assemble.

[Gary Lewis]

I dont know just how necessary a dyno run is. I think it would be nice, but not necessary. All shops air test the trannies to make sure everything is functioning. An auto tranny is fairly simple and to someone that has built them for years I am sure they are more than simple assemble.

A dyno run is probably only necessary if there are questions about some aspect of a build. For instance, can you pack that many frictions in that clutch pack and get it to release. But, when someone is building a tranny in a case that no one involved has seen run, it would prove that the case isn’t porous. And, it would point out any leaks that might case the tranny to have to be pulled and re-sealed.

So it isn’t necessary, but would be insurance that all is well.

[Gary Lewis]

A dyno run is probably only necessary if there are questions about some aspect of a build. For instance, can you pack that many frictions in that clutch pack and get it to release. But, when someone is building a tranny in a case that no one involved has seen run, it would prove that the case isn’t porous. And, it would point out any leaks that might case the tranny to have to be pulled and re-sealed.

So it isn’t necessary, but would be insurance that all is well.

I heard from Brandon's friend/neighbor Steve today. But I don't fully understand his response, so could use some help.

I sent him this list of Baumann's suggested upgrades saying I wanted to make sure they are included:

• Improved (thicker) converter clutch piston (circa 1994), prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip and even bluing the outside surface of the torque converter in extreme cases. Ensure that your new converter contains an updated OEM or "LuK" brand heavy-duty clutch. This can be difficult, as many torque converter suppliers and remanufacturers may not use this new style of clutch.

• Higher displacement front pump (for 1995) provides more fluid capacity for faster engagement of reverse and greater lube flow.

• New (for 1994) 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replace older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads.

• Center support update kit (for units built from 1989 through part of 1994) replaces wear-prone bushing with a ball bearing and contains a new overdrive stub shaft.

• Stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge.

• Revised sun gear and rear case bushings (circa 1992 model year) provide longer wear life and better lubrication.

• 4 pinion planet carriers (first used in 1992 model year)

• New forward clutch friction plates with hardened internal splines cure "chatter" and "no-drive" conditions in E4OD and some later C-6 transmissions.

And I got the following response:

The shift kit comes with the new updated snap rings, the converter is the updated clutch disc, The forward clutches are the later ones, The center support, stub shaft , and the 1995 later pump

With the roller bearing is $192.00. I install new sun gear and case bushings in each build. The total price for the parts and labor and supplies is $2200.00.

So, did he say all of the things are included?