E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[85lebaront2]

Bill - The initial salvo from Core Tuning was "i helped bill out initially, this is Adam." I was guilty by association right off the bat.

Yes, I've been surprised that in a previous conversation Core Tuning was suggesting the EEC-IV. I don't want to go that way. But, I do want to understand why they are saying the '96 F250 is the way to go.

Anyway, if Ray/NotEnoughTrucks' computer is an F6 then the whole harness is 1996, right?

As for Darth, that is good MPG. Big Blue doesn't beat 10 very often.

Last, I'd love to have one of the computers to start looking at. And, by the way, Jim is shipping your core support hardware to me. What color do you want me to PC it?

Ray - It is looking more and more like I'll want your harness, if not the computer. Want to shoot me an email on pricing?

Going back through and catching some of the missed posts (this is taking on a mind of it's own) I will send you one to start with and drop the core support stuff I have in with it. Color, whatever looks like the original is fine, of coater's choice even.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, Adam is a great guy, he spent quite a bit of time with me teaching me how to use BE and flash the EEC after the tune has been written and saved. If you snag an extra 104 pin connector and OBD-II port (it can be off anything with an EEC-V system) I will send you the diagram for my bench flashing setup. Works great and allows me to pre-load a spare EEC box so if one fails on me all I have to do is swap it. Using the 1992-97 PDC, there is a maxi fuse that feeds the EEC keep alive memory circuit so it can be pulled in order to change an EEC without damaging it or erasing all the radio memory and having to reset the clock.

Talking with Adam reminds me of talking to Tim - they are both easy to talk to and have a wealth of knowledge. So the conversation can go on and on. But I'm worried about using up too much of their time, so usually am ready to get off before they are.

As for the PDC, I am going with a later model one, maybe the one I have or the '95 one that Jim is sending me, so it'll have the fuse. But why a maxi fuse for keep-alive?

Anyway, that bench setup sounds good and makes sense.

On the parts to PC, send 'em on. Dunno when I'll get the first batch going, but I'll work them in.

Last, this isn't even getting started! Unfortunately I've not found the book entitled For Dummies: How To EEC-V Your 400 In A 1981 F-Series. But we are writing it, albeit disjointedly, topic by topic. And when it is done I plan to consolidate it into a true How-To. Adam said he's intended to do it, but just hasn't found the time. I think something like that would be a huge help to people.

Perhaps it could be done in sections, with one about the choice of PCM. And another about the choice of wiring harnesses. Then intake manifolds, intake plumbing, etc.

[LARIAT 85]

Just had an excellent 40 minute conversation with Adam of Core Tuning. The bottom line is that he agrees with the plan. In other words, the PCM we've been talking about will work fine. The only issue is that it needs to be E4OD compliant. We can change essentially anything else, but can't or shouldn't change that.

Their package is $629 (+tax) and that gets their version of Binary Editor, which supports all strategies from '96 up. Plus, it includes their Direct Flash cable, which connects to the computer's USB port and the PCM via the OBD-II port instead of the J3 port like some do. Their cable allows reading the PCM's code, writing to the PCM, data logging, and troubleshooting. In addition, the package includes one USB dongle, which you have to have connected to the PC you are using in order to validate that PC.

Also I'll need their $80 A/D box that takes analog outputs, like from my AEM 30-4900 Wideband Failsafe Gauge and converts it to digital. The only downside is that this box is also USB, and with the Direct Flash cable and the dongle the PC needs to have three USB ports. Unfortunately this laptop only has two, but Adam told me about inexpensive laptops that have 3, so that should be simple.

Then we talked about the application - Dad's truck. I explained about the Tim Meyer-built 400 and Adam said that we can turn off the crank trigger in the PCM so I won't have to add a crank wheel and pickup, and the PCM will use the info from the distributor. Apparently the crank signal was for mis-fire diagnostics and they aren't needed.

Also, he volunteered that with this application he would use Trick Flow's R-Series intake. Bolts right onto the 400 using the Cleveland to M-block adaptors. Hmmmm, has he been listening to my call with Tim? Or reading this thread? (He said he hasn't been reading this thread, but I invited him and he may.) And, he said "Do not use the Edelbrock intake!" Apparently it won't flow enough and someone he knows had the flow go flat way too early in the RPM range.

Last, we talked about the All-Ford Truck Show. He said he may come down for that next year. That would be great as I plan to have Dad's truck there with the engine and tranny in and the EFI system installed. So at least he could tell people about how it all works.

I just sat here and read all 12 pages of this thread, and I had to go back to this post. VERY complicated and confusing. I have to say, I am extremely THANKFUL my truck has a carburetor, and I stuck with it.

I have absolutely nothing against EFI, but why on earth are you going through all that trouble (AND wiring, AND sensors) to install it on Dad's truck? After all, Ford would NOT have done that in 1982. I really don't think all of that is going to make it any easier for your offspring to repair (or keep) Dad's truck. Looking back on it, if my Dad's 1985 truck was one of the later ones that had EFI, I don't think I would have restored it. It would have been too much trouble going through all of that wiring and replacing all of those old sensors to make it reliable.

Carburetors have worked great for years, and they still do. I am under the ago of 40, and that is what I have learned. Have you forgotten that? And your truck is already there. Why all the trouble?

I get more comments on my truck's engine because it is *looks* so much different than the average vehicle that has EFI. Everyone seems to really dig it. Especially with the dual snorkel air cleaner front and center. And, it runs every bit as good as any modern EFI vehicles does. That's the best part.

I don't get it?

 

[Gary Lewis]

I just sat here and read all 12 pages of this thread, and I had to go back to this post. VERY complicated and confusing. I have to say, I am extremely THANKFUL my truck has a carburetor, and I stuck with it.

I have absolutely nothing against EFI, but why on earth are you going through all that trouble (AND wiring, AND sensors) to install it on Dad's truck? After all, Ford would NOT have done that in 1982. I really don't think all of that is going to make it any easier for your offspring to repair (or keep) Dad's truck. Looking back on it, if my Dad's 1985 truck was one of the later ones that had EFI, I don't think I would have restored it. It would have been too much trouble going through all of that wiring and replacing all of those old sensors to make it reliable.

Carburetors have worked great for years, and they still do. I am under the ago of 40, and that is what I have learned. Have you forgotten that? And your truck is already there. Why all the trouble?

I get more comments on my truck's engine because it is *looks* so much different than the average vehicle that has EFI. Everyone seems to really dig it. Especially with the dual snorkel air cleaner front and center. And, it runs every bit as good as any modern EFI vehicles does. That's the best part.

I don't get it?

I'm going with an E4OD, and have to have a computer to control it. Why not do it with Ford's computer, which just happens to do EFI as well?

Also, I'm 70 years old and this truck will get handed down. But finding someone that could work on it is getting harder and harder. However, if they can plug into an OBD-II port and find out what the problem is then it can be maintained.

[LARIAT 85]

I'm going with an E4OD, and have to have a computer to control it. Why not do it with Ford's computer, which just happens to do EFI as well?

Also, I'm 70 years old and this truck will get handed down. But finding someone that could work on it is getting harder and harder. However, if they can plug into an OBD-II port and find out what the problem is then it can be maintained.

There *are* other transmissions you can use that don't require a computer.

But, it's your funeral, Chief.

IF you ever get this project completed and all of the bugs worked out (there are going to be MANY, as evidenced by this thread), I am going to ask you if it was all worth it.

One thing is for sure, you won't enjoy the fruits of your labor (DRIVING TIME) for very long, with all of the extra work you have ahead of you.

Good luck!

 

[85lebaront2]

I just sat here and read all 12 pages of this thread, and I had to go back to this post. VERY complicated and confusing. I have to say, I am extremely THANKFUL my truck has a carburetor, and I stuck with it.

I have absolutely nothing against EFI, but why on earth are you going through all that trouble (AND wiring, AND sensors) to install it on Dad's truck? After all, Ford would NOT have done that in 1982. I really don't think all of that is going to make it any easier for your offspring to repair (or keep) Dad's truck. Looking back on it, if my Dad's 1985 truck was one of the later ones that had EFI, I don't think I would have restored it. It would have been too much trouble going through all of that wiring and replacing all of those old sensors to make it reliable.

Carburetors have worked great for years, and they still do. I am under the ago of 40, and that is what I have learned. Have you forgotten that? And your truck is already there. Why all the trouble?

I get more comments on my truck's engine because it is *looks* so much different than the average vehicle that has EFI. Everyone seems to really dig it. Especially with the dual snorkel air cleaner front and center. And, it runs every bit as good as any modern EFI vehicles does. That's the best part.

I don't get it?

Try taking your carbureted engine up to about 5000 feet elevation and see how much different it runs, granted, you have one of the best carburetors made for a Ford engine, the annular boosters provide the best distribution possible. Take a vehicle jetted for sea level and take it up to Denver say, it will be rich, take a vehicle set up for Denver and bring it to sea level, it will be lean enough to probably misfire. Fuel injection systems read the Manifold Absolute Pressure, or Mass Air Flow and adjust the mixture and spark advance as needed. Detroit was late to the party, many European cars had it for years before, at least Ford didn't piddle with the TBI systems much, pretty well went right to port injection, cars were sequential and some were Mass Air as early as 1989, trucks used a bank fired system as the emission requirements were less strict for them.

[LARIAT 85]

Try taking your carbureted engine up to about 5000 feet elevation and see how much different it runs, granted, you have one of the best carburetors made for a Ford engine, the annular boosters provide the best distribution possible. Take a vehicle jetted for sea level and take it up to Denver say, it will be rich, take a vehicle set up for Denver and bring it to sea level, it will be lean enough to probably misfire. Fuel injection systems read the Manifold Absolute Pressure, or Mass Air Flow and adjust the mixture and spark advance as needed. Detroit was late to the party, many European cars had it for years before, at least Ford didn't piddle with the TBI systems much, pretty well went right to port injection, cars were sequential and some were Mass Air as early as 1989, trucks used a bank fired system as the emission requirements were less strict for them.

Maybe Gary should be asking himself if he ever plans to go 5000 feet up in elevation, or if his offspring will feel comfortable in the future driving a 40+ year old pickup truck up to the mountains?

If he does (or they do), a simple screwdriver and jet change will be a whole lot easier and simpler than what this thread is proposing.

And, you don't *have* to do anything. It might not run perfect, but it's not like a carbureted engine can't handle the elevation changes at all.

[Gary Lewis]

Maybe Gary should be asking himself if he ever plans to go 5000 feet up in elevation, or if his offspring will feel comfortable in the future driving a 40+ year old pickup truck up to the mountains?

If he does (or they do), a simple screwdriver and jet change will be a whole lot easier and simpler than what this thread is proposing.

And, you don't *have* to do anything. It might not run perfect, but it's not like a carbureted engine can't handle the elevation changes at all.

Rick - There are only two automatics that will bolt to a 400: a C6 and an E4OD. I don't want the C6, so that leaves me with an E4OD. And that requires a controller, which start at $800.

So I decided to go MAF SEFI. It will take more time, but it is what I want to do, and to me these projects are about the journey of building them, not just about driving them. In fact, this truck may not be driven a lot. But it will sure turn heads at the shows.

As for driving it to the mountains, Big Blue is more likely to go the mountains right now. But, our son and DiL would dearly love to move to CO, and the truck is probably going to be his at some point. So, with the EFI it'll handle that well.

Anyway, I understand your arguments. I've been through all of them myself. And I've made my decision on what I want to do. So, I hope you'll be along for the ride.

[NotEnoughTrucks]

Rick - There are only two automatics that will bolt to a 400: a C6 and an E4OD. I don't want the C6, so that leaves me with an E4OD. And that requires a controller, which start at $800.

So I decided to go MAF SEFI. It will take more time, but it is what I want to do, and to me these projects are about the journey of building them, not just about driving them. In fact, this truck may not be driven a lot. But it will sure turn heads at the shows.

As for driving it to the mountains, Big Blue is more likely to go the mountains right now. But, our son and DiL would dearly love to move to CO, and the truck is probably going to be his at some point. So, with the EFI it'll handle that well.

Anyway, I understand your arguments. I've been through all of them myself. And I've made my decision on what I want to do. So, I hope you'll be along for the ride.

Shipping box is filling up!

6" of snow here in the last week seems to be hiding things on me. Got the main harness and the ECM's but the engine harness is eluding me. Of course, I was tripping over it a month ago. Got a few places left to check, but the daylight hours are getting short. Looks like I can fit everything into a small tote.

I'll take some pics before I pack it all up. Just got in from the farm and it's time to rest my old bones!

[Nothing Special]

....The only downside is that this box is also USB, and with the Direct Flash cable and the dongle the PC needs to have three USB ports. Unfortunately this laptop only has two, but Adam told me about inexpensive laptops that have 3, so that should be simple....

Simpler and cheaper yet, there are boxes that plug into a USB port and give you three ports.