E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, one slight problem, the exhaust pipe flanges have a different angle on the EFI manifolds than the carbureted ones. I was going to just hook mine up and get O2 sensor bungs put in, but had to use the 90 pipes instead.

Hmmmm

Well, that's what cutoff discs and mig welders are for.

[85lebaront2]

Oh no! Still a 2G!?

Bill - I hope you don’t need that harness as I’d like to have it to go with the alternator and the PDC.

No, I don't, mine is custom harness that came with my 3G 160 amp unit. Besides, the only connections from the alternator harness to the rest of the front harness are at the hot post on the starter relay and the green/red circuit 904 ignition exciter wire.

[85lebaront2]

Hmmmm

Well, that's what cutoff discs and mig welders are for.

Yes, but I had the parts from the 90 F250 parts truck to use.

[Gary Lewis]

No, I don't, mine is custom harness that came with my 3G 160 amp unit. Besides, the only connections from the alternator harness to the rest of the front harness are at the hot post on the starter relay and the green/red circuit 904 ignition exciter wire.

Ok, thanks. By the way, Dan sent me an email and I'm responding. He may have info I need for the EFI'ing.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, thanks. By the way, Dan sent me an email and I'm responding. He may have info I need for the EFI'ing.

Bill - More ?'s on the tranny build. Do you have a way to get the outside of the case really clean? I ask because I want to paint it and that means all the stuck-on dirt, grease, etc has to be off. So, if you don't have a way then I could media-blast it before shipping it. I would protect any openings as best I could, but when you disassemble it you could get any grit out that had gotten in. Then, when I get it back I could wash it, gently, and paint it.

What about upgrades? Are there any that should be or could be added? Is the original torque converter adequate?

[85lebaront2]

Bill - More ?'s on the tranny build. Do you have a way to get the outside of the case really clean? I ask because I want to paint it and that means all the stuck-on dirt, grease, etc has to be off. So, if you don't have a way then I could media-blast it before shipping it. I would protect any openings as best I could, but when you disassemble it you could get any grit out that had gotten in. Then, when I get it back I could wash it, gently, and paint it.

What about upgrades? Are there any that should be or could be added? Is the original torque converter adequate?

I no longer have a good way to clean the case, I used to carry them to Bert's Transmission's in Newport News, actually I used to do the rebuilds in his shop, he would lay everything out for me when I was doing a Mercedes-Benz one for him. I can ask Kerry Tittermary when I get back if he has a good way to clean something that big.

Torque converter, nothing special, but it is recommended it be replaced with a good reman unit.

[Gary Lewis]

I no longer have a good way to clean the case, I used to carry them to Bert's Transmission's in Newport News, actually I used to do the rebuilds in his shop, he would lay everything out for me when I was doing a Mercedes-Benz one for him. I can ask Kerry Tittermary when I get back if he has a good way to clean something that big.

Torque converter, nothing special, but it is recommended it be replaced with a good reman unit.

Bill - If you can find a place to get it really clean then wonderful. But I can media blast it to clean it up here, making your job easier.

Got it on the torque converter. If you don't have suggestions I'll look around.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - If you can find a place to get it really clean then wonderful. But I can media blast it to clean it up here, making your job easier.

Got it on the torque converter. If you don't have suggestions I'll look around.

Folks - Should I create a new thread for the EFI'ing of Dad's truck? I can see we could keep this one and another going pretty easily. And I could transfer a number of these posts there.

Bill - Is there really a reason for me to sign up with Core Tuning? If you can do the programming, I could buy a cpu from you and you could program it before sending it to me. Or, is there a lot of programming that needs to be done to tune things?

All - I've been emailing with Dan Lee, whose engine is the one shown in the previous picture - the one Tim built. Dan says the intake is the biggest issue with EFI'ing a Cleveland. So, that's something we should discuss. I can see at least three options:

• Use a Cleveland intake with Price Motorsports Cleveland/M-block adaptors machined to take the injectors.

• Use the existing Weiand intake on the engine and machine it to take injectors. But, since it is a dual-plane intake that puts the injectors at different levels, if not different angles, and makes creating a fuel rail difficult.

• Use a 351W EFI lower and upper intake. Tim said he's always wanted to do this, and Price makes adapters to bolt a 351W intake to M-block heads. Tim suggested machining off the thermostat housing.

  Here's a couple of pics:

  

Thoughts?

[85lebaront2]

Folks - Should I create a new thread for the EFI'ing of Dad's truck? I can see we could keep this one and another going pretty easily. And I could transfer a number of these posts there.

Bill - Is there really a reason for me to sign up with Core Tuning? If you can do the programming, I could buy a cpu from you and you could program it before sending it to me. Or, is there a lot of programming that needs to be done to tune things?

All - I've been emailing with Dan Lee, whose engine is the one shown in the previous picture - the one Tim built. Dan says the intake is the biggest issue with EFI'ing a Cleveland. So, that's something we should discuss. I can see at least three options:

• Use a Cleveland intake with Price Motorsports Cleveland/M-block adaptors machined to take the injectors.

• Use the existing Weiand intake on the engine and machine it to take injectors. But, since it is a dual-plane intake that puts the injectors at different levels, if not different angles, and makes creating a fuel rail difficult.

• Use a 351W EFI lower and upper intake. Tim said he's always wanted to do this, and Price makes adapters to bolt a 351W intake to M-block heads. Tim suggested machining off the thermostat housing.

  Here's a couple of pics:

Thoughts?

Gary, I can do a preliminary setup, but, short of shipping EECs halfway across the country and back everytime something needed changing, I would not be able to help you a lot. If you were closer, maybe. Tuning EFI is like tuning a carburetor and distributor together, as you already know, they have to work together. Idle and cruise conditions the O2 sensors control the mixture, load, rpm and the program in the computer control the spark advance (which can go over 60 degrees under light load and decent rpm).

Manifold, one of the weak areas on the EFI 460 is the intake, it is a basic dual plane low riser like the carbureted engines used. If Tim feels the 351W intake will work, maybe with a spacer between the lower and upper to get a good ram length (I'm sure he has the formulas Chrysler worked out in the 60s) That would benefit your engine I am sure. The 460 TB will bolt to the Windsor intake plenum, there are a few modifications needed, like IAC ports, water to prevent icing, TPS and throttle cable hookups.

BTW, if Tim can lower himself to thinking about 460s, I have a wild idea for a better intake, but do not have the capability to build it.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I can do a preliminary setup, but, short of shipping EECs halfway across the country and back everytime something needed changing, I would not be able to help you a lot. If you were closer, maybe. Tuning EFI is like tuning a carburetor and distributor together, as you already know, they have to work together. Idle and cruise conditions the O2 sensors control the mixture, load, rpm and the program in the computer control the spark advance (which can go over 60 degrees under light load and decent rpm).

Manifold, one of the weak areas on the EFI 460 is the intake, it is a basic dual plane low riser like the carbureted engines used. If Tim feels the 351W intake will work, maybe with a spacer between the lower and upper to get a good ram length (I'm sure he has the formulas Chrysler worked out in the 60s) That would benefit your engine I am sure. The 460 TB will bolt to the Windsor intake plenum, there are a few modifications needed, like IAC ports, water to prevent icing, TPS and throttle cable hookups.

BTW, if Tim can lower himself to thinking about 460s, I have a wild idea for a better intake, but do not have the capability to build it.

Bill - I was afraid that I’d need to reflash the computer to tune things, but needed to ask the question. So, I’ll plan on buying into Core Tuning. And, maybe I can get Ben to come up to next year’s show.

Was just email chatting with Dan Lee, who has joined the forum and will soon chime in, and the crazy thought of EFI’ing Big Blue came to mind. After all, I’ll have the ‘90 as well as all the parts Jim is sending to me. But, if I remember correctly, the EFI heads are different so the EFI intake probably won’t bolt to the carb heads. And while I’ll have the EFI heads on the ‘90, there’s something different about the exhaust so I’d have to use the manifolds that are on the ‘90 instead of the headers. Also, there’s a difference in combustion chamber size - what is the resulting CR with EFI heads on a carb block?

As for the 351W intake, there are aftermarket parts that bolt right on and provide more power. But I’ve always thought the tubing of the factory units was cool, and that would fit with the theme of Dad’s truck - As Ford could have done it.

Last, Tim didn’t design the new Track Boss intakes. Turns out a guy named Gary did, and he came to the show in September. We talked at length as I was wanting him to design an intake for an M-block with designated spots for injectors, but he didn’t seem to be ready to do that. However, maybe I should look him up and ask the 400 and 460 question. I’ll do that. 👍