E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[Bruno2]

I have never heard of Aspen. I am not saying they cant build a tranny strong enough. I believe it is possible for a multitude of builders to do this. Steve has a transmission shop at his house. He also teaches auto tranny at the Vo tech here in Broken Arrow.I had a chance to briefly speak with him when I was up there a couple of weeks ago. I think I would pick his brain at least. The reason I am saying to call him is because he isnt a "smoke and mirror" type of guy like you run into at these interweb tranny shops.He isnt going to try and sell you on the magic of what he does.

I run into this "magic" quite often on some of the diesel forums and FB pages and it makes me a little agitated. Like for instance right now on the 7.3 FB page some vendors are trying to sell hydraulic lines for the High Pressure Oil System on the 7.3 for like 3X what they would cost for a hose shop to make them up. I simply suggested that anybody could go to a hydraulic shop and have them made for about $70 vs paying a vendor $199.00 plus shipping. The vendors countered with their "magical lines" cant be reproduced by a hydraulic hose shop. Which is BS because I am sure they are having them made at a hose shop.

I cant remember if you already have a tranny or not for the build? The E4OD's are expensive to build parts wise. However, some of the transmissions already have some of the upgraded parts in them depending on what year they are and what they came out of. So if you have a core you may already have some of the better parts.A tranny shop probably wouldnt tell you if you did where I believe Steve would.

I am sure Steve will give you a warranty with a build. Also, I think Steve would be more understanding about the warranty in a situation where you have 3yrs or 36,000, but the unit doesnt go in for a year or longer because of truck build technical difficulties that may arise. So if his tranny broke prematurely although it may have exceeded the warranty period , but wasnt in actual use for such and such amount of time I believe he would help a guy out instead of washing his hands of it using the rules are the rules for an excuse.

[Gary Lewis]

I cant remember if you already have a tranny or not for the build? The E4OD's are expensive to build parts wise. However, some of the transmissions already have some of the upgraded parts in them depending on what year they are and what they came out of. So if you have a core you may already have some of the better parts.A tranny shop probably wouldnt tell you if you did where I believe Steve would.

I am sure Steve will give you a warranty with a build. Also, I think Steve would be more understanding about the warranty in a situation where you have 3yrs or 36,000, but the unit doesnt go in for a year or longer because of truck build technical difficulties that may arise. So if his tranny broke prematurely although it may have exceeded the warranty period , but wasnt in actual use for such and such amount of time I believe he would help a guy out instead of washing his hands of it using the rules are the rules for an excuse.

I do have a tranny from this 1990 F150 I’m parting out. But most of the factory changes came after ‘90, so this one won’t have them. However Charles at Aspen said that’s no problem for him as he has most of the good stuff in stock. Or, he may start with another core to make it easier.

And the warranty is the same kind of thing with Charles - it starts when I fire the engine up. But if Steve will also do that then he’s in contention.

As for the “magical” things, some places think their whole transmission is magical. Or their name may be the magic. Brian’s Truck Shop in Arkansas wants $5000 for their base E4OD, as do several others - regardless of the fact theirs are built to handle 1000+ ft-lbs and my engine puts out 1/2 that. But they don’t do anything with a smaller rating. And their warranty starts when you pay for it.

Anyway, I’ll call Steve. Thanks for the reference.

[Bruno2]

I do have a tranny from this 1990 F150 I’m parting out. But most of the factory changes came after ‘90, so this one won’t have them. However Charles at Aspen said that’s no problem for him as he has most of the good stuff in stock. Or, he may start with another core to make it easier.

And the warranty is the same kind of thing with Charles - it starts when I fire the engine up. But if Steve will also do that then he’s in contention.

As for the “magical” things, some places think their whole transmission is magical. Or their name may be the magic. Brian’s Truck Shop in Arkansas wants $5000 for their base E4OD, as do several others - regardless of the fact theirs are built to handle 1000+ ft-lbs and my engine puts out 1/2 that. But they don’t do anything with a smaller rating. And their warranty starts when you pay for it.

Anyway, I’ll call Steve. Thanks for the reference.

I would ask Steve what he knows about Aspen. There is a good chance he knows the owner or may have taught his builders or even the owner at some point. Aspen's fees dont really seem that far out of line. Like I was saying these guys that want $5000 for these transmissions may or may not be worth their salt. I know a lot of diesel truck drag racers and sled pullers buy them so they may have quite a turn over rate at these big interweb shops simply because their customers are extremely abusive to their equipment. Having to tear down and inspect as well as diagnose why it failed and who's fault it is may occupy quite a bit of their revenue. Also, I know some of them use billet components and that stuff is expensive.

The reason I am suggesting Steve is because I think he will be honest about his answers to questions. The E4OD was not designed to be a light truck transmission. They were designed to go in bigger trucks than 1 tons,, but werent quite adequate for that is what I was told by another builder with a lot of experience. The E4OD is designed off of the C6. They are virtually the same in some aspects. The C6 may indeed be one of the most durable tranny's ever made. On the Yellow Bullet forums there are a lot of guys running them with North of 600 HP in front of them in stock form. I really dont think your build needs to be as "part" intense as some others. Let's say 500 HP/500 FTLBS is probably within the acceptable power range of stock. However, I am more like you and would want some of the more abused parts to be upgraded to insure longevity.

Charles makes his living by selling transmissions and transmission work. He is going to be somewhat motivated to sell even if he is one of the more honest tranny guys in town. Steve makes his living as an educator and does tranny work on the side. The shop in Steve's backyard doesnt have a need for constant overhead to be paid like Charles' does.

[Gary Lewis]

I would ask Steve what he knows about Aspen. There is a good chance he knows the owner or may have taught his builders or even the owner at some point. Aspen's fees dont really seem that far out of line. Like I was saying these guys that want $5000 for these transmissions may or may not be worth their salt. I know a lot of diesel truck drag racers and sled pullers buy them so they may have quite a turn over rate at these big interweb shops simply because their customers are extremely abusive to their equipment. Having to tear down and inspect as well as diagnose why it failed and who's fault it is may occupy quite a bit of their revenue. Also, I know some of them use billet components and that stuff is expensive.

The reason I am suggesting Steve is because I think he will be honest about his answers to questions. The E4OD was not designed to be a light truck transmission. They were designed to go in bigger trucks than 1 tons,, but werent quite adequate for that is what I was told by another builder with a lot of experience. The E4OD is designed off of the C6. They are virtually the same in some aspects. The C6 may indeed be one of the most durable tranny's ever made. On the Yellow Bullet forums there are a lot of guys running them with North of 600 HP in front of them in stock form. I really dont think your build needs to be as "part" intense as some others. Let's say 500 HP/500 FTLBS is probably within the acceptable power range of stock. However, I am more like you and would want some of the more abused parts to be upgraded to insure longevity.

Charles makes his living by selling transmissions and transmission work. He is going to be somewhat motivated to sell even if he is one of the more honest tranny guys in town. Steve makes his living as an educator and does tranny work on the side. The shop in Steve's backyard doesnt have a need for constant overhead to be paid like Charles' does.

Good points. The web site for BTS has info on people who have set various racing records with their transmissions. I know that racing of any kind is really hard on equipment, but I don’t intent to do that so don’t need that serious of a tranny. So I don’t need “bullet-proof”. However, I do want a solid tranny that will not have problems.

I’ll report back after calling Steve.

[85lebaront2]

Good points. The web site for BTS has info on people who have set various racing records with their transmissions. I know that racing of any kind is really hard on equipment, but I don’t intent to do that so don’t need that serious of a tranny. So I don’t need “bullet-proof”. However, I do want a solid tranny that will not have problems.

I’ll report back after calling Steve.

The one in Darth was taken out of the 1990 F250 that the EFI parts came from (and the short block that is now built). I talked to Bert Hawkes about going through it and he told me if it was working OK, leave it alone, just throw a filter in it and fill it up. That was several years and miles ago, still working great. I am going to do a service and change to the later pan and gasket sometime. Most likely it will be when the engine is changed.

[Gary Lewis]

The one in Darth was taken out of the 1990 F250 that the EFI parts came from (and the short block that is now built). I talked to Bert Hawkes about going through it and he told me if it was working OK, leave it alone, just throw a filter in it and fill it up. That was several years and miles ago, still working great. I am going to do a service and change to the later pan and gasket sometime. Most likely it will be when the engine is changed.

My problem is I don’t know whether this one was running right or not. But two pan bolt holes are stripped, so the pan has been off - and re-installed by some ham-handed person. They replaced the bolts with 1/4-20 Phillip-headed screws with nuts on the top. 🙈

Charles said that’s no problem as he will helicoil those two, but if he finds very many more he’ll swap the case for another he has stashed. And it is comments like that which gave me confidence in him.

But, not knowing anything about the tranny, not to mention the two stripped bolt holes, gives me zero confidence in this tranny. So it’ll be gone through and upgraded.

[85lebaront2]

But, not knowing anything about the tranny, not to mention the two stripped bolt holes, gives me zero confidence in this tranny. So it’ll be gone through and upgraded.

Can't say that I blame you in the least for that, FWIW, the Chrysler A604/41TE cases are famous for stripping the nice M8X1.25 holes in the aluminum case, as a result I keep a helicoil kit in that thread size.

[Gary Lewis]

But, not knowing anything about the tranny, not to mention the two stripped bolt holes, gives me zero confidence in this tranny. So it’ll be gone through and upgraded.

Can't say that I blame you in the least for that, FWIW, the Chrysler A604/41TE cases are famous for stripping the nice M8X1.25 holes in the aluminum case, as a result I keep a helicoil kit in that thread size.

Had a good conversation with Brandon's friend/neighbor Steve Cummings today. He's going to work up a proposal for me starting on Monday. But here are some of the major points from the discussion:

• Price: He's guessing it'll be $1300 to $1500 for a "stockish" build, and $2200 to $2500 for a heavy-duty build

• Ford Upgrades: He's not sure all of the upgrades that Ford did over the years, as shown on my E4OD Upgrade whiteboard, are necessary. In fact, if I want all of those it may be better to sell this core and buy a later model core that already has the upgrades.

• Clutch Upgrades: He likes to use Alto Red Eagle clutch material. Said there is a blue material, but it is a "stage 3" or racing material and is hard on the steel in the clutch pack.

• Billet: Don't need billet anything.

• Torque Converter: The brazed and multiple-disk converters are really for the diesel engine. For my application he thinks the What Ever It Takes Gas HD converter would be good. It has a single Kevlar clutch.

• Pan: For one with a drain plug he'd go cast aluminum. However later ones, like from '97 on, have a drain plug.

• Warranty: He gives 12 months or 12,000 miles. But he would defer the start of it until I get the truck fired up.

• Finish: He soaks them in a vat and they come out clean. However, the aluminum may be tarnished,

  so he could paint it if I want.

[Bruno2]

Had a good conversation with Brandon's friend/neighbor Steve Cummings today. He's going to work up a proposal for me starting on Monday. But here are some of the major points from the discussion:

• Price: He's guessing it'll be $1300 to $1500 for a "stockish" build, and $2200 to $2500 for a heavy-duty build

• Ford Upgrades: He's not sure all of the upgrades that Ford did over the years, as shown on my E4OD Upgrade whiteboard, are necessary. In fact, if I want all of those it may be better to sell this core and buy a later model core that already has the upgrades.

• Clutch Upgrades: He likes to use Alto Red Eagle clutch material. Said there is a blue material, but it is a "stage 3" or racing material and is hard on the steel in the clutch pack.

• Billet: Don't need billet anything.

• Torque Converter: The brazed and multiple-disk converters are really for the diesel engine. For my application he thinks the What Ever It Takes Gas HD converter would be good. It has a single Kevlar clutch.

• Pan: For one with a drain plug he'd go cast aluminum. However later ones, like from '97 on, have a drain plug.

• Warranty: He gives 12 months or 12,000 miles. But he would defer the start of it until I get the truck fired up.

• Finish: He soaks them in a vat and they come out clean. However, the aluminum may be tarnished,

  so he could paint it if I want.

Sounds like you had an informative conversation with Steve. It almost sounds like 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other between Steve and Charles. The only factor I noticed was Steve sounds more inclined to keep the parts bill down by letting you be a little more selective on what to use. However, I dont think it is going to be an earth shattering savings like maybe $200-$300. Dont get me wrong it is enough money to consider. Steve may even have a good line on cheap cores if you wanted upgraded parts.

I am a little hesitant to push or sell you one way or the other because I did recommend an interior shop to a guy that didnt create a good experience...

[ArdWrknTrk]

Sounds like you had an informative conversation with Steve. It almost sounds like 6 of 1 or a half dozen of the other between Steve and Charles. The only factor I noticed was Steve sounds more inclined to keep the parts bill down by letting you be a little more selective on what to use. However, I dont think it is going to be an earth shattering savings like maybe $200-$300. Dont get me wrong it is enough money to consider. Steve may even have a good line on cheap cores if you wanted upgraded parts.

I am a little hesitant to push or sell you one way or the other because I did recommend an interior shop to a guy that didnt create a good experience...

*inferior* shop.....