E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[Gary Lewis]

Bill, Jim, and I are discussing bits and pieces of the plan to put an E4OD in Dad’s truck, and some of that is in the WHYDTYTT thread and some is in email. So I’m starting this thread to consolidate the info.

One issue is the length of the E4, which is more than even the ZF, and that means the drive shafts have to be changed. And, since the E4’s mounting pad is several inches further back than either the C6’s or ZF’s that means a different crossmember is needed.

Anyway, since I think an E4OD is the best automatic available for the bigger engines in these trucks, I hope to sort out all of those details in this thread for posterity.

[Pebcak]

I'm going to be paying attention to this thread for future use! Thanks Gary!

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017, 08:36 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

 

 

 

[Gary Lewis]

That’s one of the several reasons for creating the thread. I think the E4OD will be a popular conversion for folks with a 351M, 400, or a 460 as that and the C6 are the only two automatics that bolt to those engines. And while the E4 is bigger and requires an electronic controller, it makes up for that with both an overdrive and a lock-up torque converter, neither of which a C6 has.

As some of you know, I had intended to put a ZF5 in Dad’s truck. In fact, I had one in there and have had it fully rebuilt during the resto. But the addition of Big Blue to the fleet has caused me to reconsider. Big Blue needs an OD and that ZF will bolt right in. Plus, a ZF is a slow-shifting truck transmission, and Dad’s truck deserves a quick-shifting tranny given its sportier nature. So, the plans changed. 😎

[Gary Lewis]

That’s one of the several reasons for creating the thread. I think the E4OD will be a popular conversion for folks with a 351M, 400, or a 460 as that and the C6 are the only two automatics that bolt to those engines. And while the E4 is bigger and requires an electronic controller, it makes up for that with both an overdrive and a lock-up torque converter, neither of which a C6 has.

As some of you know, I had intended to put a ZF5 in Dad’s truck. In fact, I had one in there and have had it fully rebuilt during the resto. But the addition of Big Blue to the fleet has caused me to reconsider. Big Blue needs an OD and that ZF will bolt right in. Plus, a ZF is a slow-shifting truck transmission, and Dad’s truck deserves a quick-shifting tranny given its sportier nature. So, the plans changed. 😎

Bill said that Chad Meador got him the following pictures and measurements from his 1993 F350 460/E4OD/4WD.:

• Front of case to mount pad is 30"

• Front drive shaft is 41-42" approximately

• Shifter rod is 9" long and the shifter bolts to the side of the E4OD case which should put it in the correct location for Dad's truck.

E4OD Crossmember:

Front Driveshaft 1:

Front Driveshaft 2:

E4OD Length To Pad:

Transfer Case Shift Rod:

Transfer Case Shifter:

 

[85lebaront2]

Bill said that Chad Meador got him the following pictures and measurements from his 1993 F350 460/E4OD/4WD.:

• Front of case to mount pad is 30"

• Front drive shaft is 41-42" approximately

• Shifter rod is 9" long and the shifter bolts to the side of the E4OD case which should put it in the correct location for Dad's truck.

E4OD Crossmember:

Front Driveshaft 1:

Front Driveshaft 2:

E4OD Length To Pad:

Transfer Case Shift Rod:

Transfer Case Shifter:

On the controller you will be using, I assume your speedometer cable comes off the transfer case output, a speed sensor like the one on the side of my extension housing will provide the needed signal, but, on the 4WD trucks, there is a wire to tell the computer you are in Low range, on the ones with the rear axle speed sensor, it simply tells the transmission to start an upshift sooner so you do not over rev the engine, on an output shaft sensor, it should do the same to anticipate rapider "wind up" in Low range.

[Gary Lewis]

On the controller you will be using, I assume your speedometer cable comes off the transfer case output, a speed sensor like the one on the side of my extension housing will provide the needed signal, but, on the 4WD trucks, there is a wire to tell the computer you are in Low range, on the ones with the rear axle speed sensor, it simply tells the transmission to start an upshift sooner so you do not over rev the engine, on an output shaft sensor, it should do the same to anticipate rapider "wind up" in Low range.

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI.

I was initially reluctant to follow in your steps because I didn’t need the tranny part of it, and didn’t want to have an unknown injection setup while breaking in the engine. But, the engine is well and truly broken in and I now need the tranny controller. So, I would think your setup would work, even on a 400. I could have Tim tap his adapters that fit a 351C manifold to a raised-block M, and put the injectors there.

As for the speedo, I think I have the electronic sensor that came with the BW1356, and if I remember correctly it has both a speedocable connection and an electrical connection. Wouldn’t that work?

[Gary Lewis]

Bill said that Chad Meador got him the following pictures and measurements from his 1993 F350 460/E4OD/4WD.:

• Front of case to mount pad is 30"

• Front drive shaft is 41-42" approximately

• Shifter rod is 9" long and the shifter bolts to the side of the E4OD case which should put it in the correct location for Dad's truck.

E4OD Crossmember:

Front Driveshaft 1:

Front Driveshaft 2:

E4OD Length To Pad:

Transfer Case Shift Rod:

Transfer Case Shifter:

And here are a couple of pics from Bill of the E4OD in Darth.

Darth's E4OD:

T-Case Shifter on E4OD:

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI.

I was initially reluctant to follow in your steps because I didn’t need the tranny part of it, and didn’t want to have an unknown injection setup while breaking in the engine. But, the engine is well and truly broken in and I now need the tranny controller. So, I would think your setup would work, even on a 400. I could have Tim tap his adapters that fit a 351C manifold to a raised-block M, and put the injectors there.

As for the speedo, I think I have the electronic sensor that came with the BW1356, and if I remember correctly it has both a speedocable connection and an electrical connection. Wouldn’t that work?

Talked to Tim. He carries the Price Motorsport adapters for using a Cleveland intake with a tall-block 335 Series engine. But, he doesn't actually do the machine work to put injectors in them, although he did one time for another customer - apparently Dan Lee according to this article in Ford Muscle.

And, here's how it was done. Not too difficult on a mill.

[Nothing Special]

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI.

I was initially reluctant to follow in your steps because I didn’t need the tranny part of it, and didn’t want to have an unknown injection setup while breaking in the engine. But, the engine is well and truly broken in and I now need the tranny controller. So, I would think your setup would work, even on a 400. I could have Tim tap his adapters that fit a 351C manifold to a raised-block M, and put the injectors there.

As for the speedo, I think I have the electronic sensor that came with the BW1356, and if I remember correctly it has both a speedocable connection and an electrical connection. Wouldn’t that work?

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI....

In some conversations on the Classic Broncos forum (not the FTE Bronco forum) some people have made what I think is a good point, that aftermarket electronics might have some longer term risk to them. Sure, right now you can get all the support you need for a brand-new Baumann controller, probably more than for a 20 year old Ford system. But 20 years from now is the 20 year old Baumann or the 40 year old Ford going to be easier to troubleshoot and fix? Not an overwhelming argument, but might be worth considering.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI....

In some conversations on the Classic Broncos forum (not the FTE Bronco forum) some people have made what I think is a good point, that aftermarket electronics might have some longer term risk to them. Sure, right now you can get all the support you need for a brand-new Baumann controller, probably more than for a 20 year old Ford system. But 20 years from now is the 20 year old Baumann or the 40 year old Ford going to be easier to troubleshoot and fix? Not an overwhelming argument, but might be worth considering.

Interesting point. But, we would need to factor in that Bill is re-flashing the ECM’s to do SEFI as well as changing the shift points and harshness on the tranny. So, if an ECM went south and you had to replace it the engine would probably run and the transmission would shift, but not like it had with the old one.

Tim had another point I forgot to mention. Since my build theme is “As Ford Could Have Done It”, why not use the EFI manifold off a Windsor?