Gary Lewis Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 If by "sense wire" you mean... ..."excite wire"...I think you (both) would reduce your confusion if you use the designations that Ford uses. Nothing on the alternator gets "excited". The LG/R wire is the I (indicator) wire. Yellow is A (no name I've found in any Ford document). Wh/Bk is S (stator). Some of this caption is from the Ford coursebook for the Basic Electrical Diagnosis class: https://supermotors.net/getfile/843907/thumbnail/alternator3gvr.jpg Steve - That's why I used what is shown on the '96 EVTM, and why the Wiring It tab says: I: This is the light green/red wire that tells the regulator that the key has been turned to On. This wire will connect to your original light green/red wire, regardless of whether your truck has an ammeter or idiot lights. A: This is the yellow/white wire that tells the regulator what the alternator's output voltage is. It can go directly to the output stud or it can go to the alternator's side of the fuse/fuse link as shown below. But it should not go to the other side of the fuse/fuse link as if that blows then the alternator's output could go very high and damage could occur. S: This is the stator output and that wire, which is white/black, wraps back to the middle terminal on the regulator's plug. But, if you have a 7 volt choke be sure to see the Choke tab, above. B+: This is the output for the alternator and should be wired through the fuse described above to the battery side of the starter relay, frequently called the "solenoid". But not back to the existing black/orange wire in your Bullnose harness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Steve - That's why I used what is shown on the '96 EVTM, and why the Wiring It tab says: I: This is the light green/red wire that tells the regulator that the key has been turned to On. This wire will connect to your original light green/red wire, regardless of whether your truck has an ammeter or idiot lights. A: This is the yellow/white wire that tells the regulator what the alternator's output voltage is. It can go directly to the output stud or it can go to the alternator's side of the fuse/fuse link as shown below. But it should not go to the other side of the fuse/fuse link as if that blows then the alternator's output could go very high and damage could occur. S: This is the stator output and that wire, which is white/black, wraps back to the middle terminal on the regulator's plug. But, if you have a 7 volt choke be sure to see the Choke tab, above. B+: This is the output for the alternator and should be wired through the fuse described above to the battery side of the starter relay, frequently called the "solenoid". But not back to the existing black/orange wire in your Bullnose harness! Gary, You used quotes, and I used incorrect (though realistic) terminology. So that part of this discussion is all on me. Your post above is very clear and has none of my nonsense verbiage. I say well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Gary, You used quotes, and I used incorrect (though realistic) terminology. So that part of this discussion is all on me. Your post above is very clear and has none of my nonsense verbiage. I say well done! Jim - Thanks. We have to walk a fine line as we document since we have a very wide user base. (I spend time on other mediums and realize that many people don't know - and apparently don't want to know - what the correct terminology is.) We could be absolutely correct and use terminology that people may not understand but is correct in most, although rarely all, Ford documentation. Or we can use correct terminology as well as what people sometimes call the thing. One such example is the starter "relay",although most (myself included) call it the "solenoid". Relay is the correct term, but if that's the only term we use then many people will not understand. So we need to help them by adding "frequently called the 'solenoid'" to the sentence. The latter is where I'd like us to go for our documentation, so need everyone's help in getting the right balance of correctness and colloquialism. In other words, if you see something that isn't clear, please point it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 That's why I used what is shown...I'm talking about in your discussion here, too. If you get in the habit of always using the same term (usually the Ford designation) for something, it's easier for anyone to understand what you mean each time (indicator vs. exciter; relay vs. solenoid; etc.). If you switch between names, some people will think you mean different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 That's why I used what is shown...I'm talking about in your discussion here, too. If you get in the habit of always using the same term (usually the Ford designation) for something, it's easier for anyone to understand what you mean each time (indicator vs. exciter; relay vs. solenoid; etc.). If you switch between names, some people will think you mean different things. Ok folks, time for an update. I've worked on the Wiring It tab on the new/to-be page and think I'm done, but want your input. (Note: Let's concentrate on this one tab for the moment.) Steve - I believe I've addressed all of your concerns that are/were related to that tab. But please check it out. All - I've added pics of my alternator in order to reference the wiring thereof, the grounding, and the clocking. Hopefully that has helped. But, one thing I'm not really happy about are the pics of the fuses. Should I spend some time there getting better pics? The 3G conversion page is one of our most-frequently visited pages, so I'd like to get it "right". But, at some point it is a case of diminishing returns, so please let me know when I have "arrived". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Ok folks, time for an update. I've worked on the Wiring It tab on the new/to-be page and think I'm done, but want your input. (Note: Let's concentrate on this one tab for the moment.) Steve - I believe I've addressed all of your concerns that are/were related to that tab. But please check it out. All - I've added pics of my alternator in order to reference the wiring thereof, the grounding, and the clocking. Hopefully that has helped. But, one thing I'm not really happy about are the pics of the fuses. Should I spend some time there getting better pics? The 3G conversion page is one of our most-frequently visited pages, so I'd like to get it "right". But, at some point it is a case of diminishing returns, so please let me know when I have "arrived". These are just comments for your consideration - don't take them as "mistakes to be corrected"....not powder coated.Whether powdered, painted, or not; ALL the mounting surfaces need to be cleaned down to shiny metal. That includes the internal surfaces where the rectifier body/heat sink touches the case. https://supermotors.net/getfile/1055207/thumbnail/06bracket02.jpg And Ford recommends applying electrical grease (NOT dielectric, thermal, conductive, chassis...) to almost all terminals; especially the heavy alternator output (which is what that grease was created for). I also put it on the freshly-polished ground points to keep them shiny longer. https://supermotors.net/getfile/723349/thumbnail/alternator-130a.jpg...add a ground wire...That's vague, and dangerous. If someone just adds a tiny wire, it could cause a fire under some circumstances. I'd specify that it be at least the size of the alternator output wire (~8ga), and at most the size of the block ground cable (~4ga)....the alternator's output could go very high...If that circuit protection opens, the alt output goes to 0A by definition. Its internal voltage (at the rectifier) could go as high as the VR is designed to go, but that won't hurt anything since the alt won't be connected to anything at that moment....fuses. Should I spend some time there getting better pics?I'd reduce it to 1 pic of each type, showing the protection (& holder for fuses) on the wiring. You have 1 pic labelled "AMG type", and several more without labels - I'd find a standard & stick to it. Right now, it almost seems like the C.B.s are just variations of the AMG because they seem to be in that series of pics. But I'd certainly include pics of the factory protection; both the early fusible link, and the later AMG/MEGA fuse. Preferably showing them on the factory alternator harnesses, since that's the quickest, cheapest, easiest, safest way to wire one up. And it automatically causes a bullnose owner to abandon the original Bk/Or wire because the 3G specifically connects at the starter relay. https://supermotors.net/getfile/876977/thumbnail/3gharness.jpg It solves so many potential problems at once, for the least money & effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 These are just comments for your consideration - don't take them as "mistakes to be corrected"....not powder coated.Whether powdered, painted, or not; ALL the mounting surfaces need to be cleaned down to shiny metal. That includes the internal surfaces where the rectifier body/heat sink touches the case. https://supermotors.net/getfile/1055207/thumbnail/06bracket02.jpg And Ford recommends applying electrical grease (NOT dielectric, thermal, conductive, chassis...) to almost all terminals; especially the heavy alternator output (which is what that grease was created for). I also put it on the freshly-polished ground points to keep them shiny longer. https://supermotors.net/getfile/723349/thumbnail/alternator-130a.jpg...add a ground wire...That's vague, and dangerous. If someone just adds a tiny wire, it could cause a fire under some circumstances. I'd specify that it be at least the size of the alternator output wire (~8ga), and at most the size of the block ground cable (~4ga)....the alternator's output could go very high...If that circuit protection opens, the alt output goes to 0A by definition. Its internal voltage (at the rectifier) could go as high as the VR is designed to go, but that won't hurt anything since the alt won't be connected to anything at that moment....fuses. Should I spend some time there getting better pics?I'd reduce it to 1 pic of each type, showing the protection (& holder for fuses) on the wiring. You have 1 pic labelled "AMG type", and several more without labels - I'd find a standard & stick to it. Right now, it almost seems like the C.B.s are just variations of the AMG because they seem to be in that series of pics. But I'd certainly include pics of the factory protection; both the early fusible link, and the later AMG/MEGA fuse. Preferably showing them on the factory alternator harnesses, since that's the quickest, cheapest, easiest, safest way to wire one up. And it automatically causes a bullnose owner to abandon the original Bk/Or wire because the 3G specifically connects at the starter relay. https://supermotors.net/getfile/876977/thumbnail/3gharness.jpg It solves so many potential problems at once, for the least money & effort. Steve - Thanks for the input. I’m out at the moment and reading on my phone, but will re-read it again on my ‘puter when I get home and see what I can do. But I fully agree with your comments on the ground path. And people need to understand that a ground wire needs to be the same size as the charge cable. Good points. And your thinking about the fuse/breaker Pics is similar to mine. I’ll see what I can do. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 These are just comments for your consideration - don't take them as "mistakes to be corrected"....not powder coated.Whether powdered, painted, or not; ALL the mounting surfaces need to be cleaned down to shiny metal. That includes the internal surfaces where the rectifier body/heat sink touches the case. https://supermotors.net/getfile/1055207/thumbnail/06bracket02.jpg And Ford recommends applying electrical grease (NOT dielectric, thermal, conductive, chassis...) to almost all terminals; especially the heavy alternator output (which is what that grease was created for). I also put it on the freshly-polished ground points to keep them shiny longer. https://supermotors.net/getfile/723349/thumbnail/alternator-130a.jpg...add a ground wire...That's vague, and dangerous. If someone just adds a tiny wire, it could cause a fire under some circumstances. I'd specify that it be at least the size of the alternator output wire (~8ga), and at most the size of the block ground cable (~4ga)....the alternator's output could go very high...If that circuit protection opens, the alt output goes to 0A by definition. Its internal voltage (at the rectifier) could go as high as the VR is designed to go, but that won't hurt anything since the alt won't be connected to anything at that moment....fuses. Should I spend some time there getting better pics?I'd reduce it to 1 pic of each type, showing the protection (& holder for fuses) on the wiring. You have 1 pic labelled "AMG type", and several more without labels - I'd find a standard & stick to it. Right now, it almost seems like the C.B.s are just variations of the AMG because they seem to be in that series of pics. But I'd certainly include pics of the factory protection; both the early fusible link, and the later AMG/MEGA fuse. Preferably showing them on the factory alternator harnesses, since that's the quickest, cheapest, easiest, safest way to wire one up. And it automatically causes a bullnose owner to abandon the original Bk/Or wire because the 3G specifically connects at the starter relay. https://supermotors.net/getfile/876977/thumbnail/3gharness.jpg It solves so many potential problems at once, for the least money & effort. Steve - I think I've incorporated your suggestions, with the exception of the one on fuses. I don't disagree, but haven't yet found the pics I want to use. One issue there is that I don't have a good picture of a Ford mega-fuse as part of a 3G harness. Yes, there's yours, but it is really hard to see the fuse itself in that pic. (I know it is there, but....) And, none of the vehicles I've gotten 3G's from used that style of harness. Instead, they've had the charge cable running to the fuse that is part of the power distribution box. But incorporating a PDB into a Bullnose truck is a bit more complex than installing a 3G. Do you have a better pic of that fuse? Do you know what that harness came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Do you have a better pic of that fuse? Do you know what that harness came from?I'll look for that harness - I think I still have it somewhere. I assume it came from a '99~03 Expedition, but I wasn't paying attention when I snagged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Do you have a better pic of that fuse? Do you know what that harness came from?I'll look for that harness - I think I still have it somewhere. I assume it came from a '99~03 Expedition, but I wasn't paying attention when I snagged it. Thanks. A pic would be helpful, but the source would help as well since we could point people at those vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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