Different 351W Starter Issues

[Bruno2]

So my son has a bricknose 91 F150 with the 351W and E4OD. He told me it was barely turning the motor over and he was having some light dimming issues while driving.

Automatically I decided it was a voltage problem due to the irregular current while driving which pointed directly at the alt . However, when I put the meter on it yhe battery had a good static charge of 12.5 and when it finally started the voltage was 13.77 with virtually no drop when under load. He shut it off and I told him to crank it again. This time just a grunt and a click with no crank. I thought maybe the relay wasnt getting a good signal. I took a piece of 12ga Romex and tried to cross the relay to see if it would crank. It didnt, but did melt the insulation on my fingers (OUCH!!).

I began to think starter at this point, but have never had a starter failure like this before. I consulted Gary via text message. Gary thought the starter was worn and not finding it's happy spot to throw out the Bendix gear. This would explain the melted wire and unusually large current draw.

He pulled it, we took it to Oreilly for a test. It failed three passes by not even throwing out the Bendix gear. I wanted a better part than what the local parts store offered, but he doesnt have time to wait on Amazon or Rockauto. So we went to my shop where I had the OEM off of Jr sitting on the floor. We grabbed it, compared it to his and were off to the races! He put it on and first try it fired right up.

[Gary Lewis]

Glad it worked out that easily. I was a little confused when texting as you had more symptoms than a bad starter would usually give, but one step at a time. Looks like we got lucky.

When you go to replace the one for Jr I'd recommend a PMGR. Ford went to them by '93 as one of the guys at church has one and when we replaced his starter it was a PMGR, and that's what O'Reilly's gave us as a replacement.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Glad it worked out that easily. I was a little confused when texting as you had more symptoms than a bad starter would usually give, but one step at a time. Looks like we got lucky.

When you go to replace the one for Jr I'd recommend a PMGR. Ford went to them by '93 as one of the guys at church has one and when we replaced his starter it was a PMGR, and that's what O'Reilly's gave us as a replacement.

I think PMGR's came in '92.

I do know the spade terminal used to trigger them is prone to corrosion.

I took it off the stud and used a ring terminal instead.

[grumpin]

I think PMGR's came in '92.

I do know the spade terminal used to trigger them is prone to corrosion.

I took it off the stud and used a ring terminal instead.

My 92 Bronco has a PMGR.

And IIRC I used a ring terminal also.

[Gary Lewis]

I think PMGR's came in '92.

I do know the spade terminal used to trigger them is prone to corrosion.

I took it off the stud and used a ring terminal instead.

That would make sense why Kris' 91's starter wasn't PMGR and Jim's starter on his '93 was.

[Bruno2]

That would make sense why Kris' 91's starter wasn't PMGR and Jim's starter on his '93 was.

Update: 01/22/19

That starter went bad as well. During the hunt for the failure we discovered a bad positive cable along with a bad battery that now dropped to 8 volts under a load . We replaced all of that and went on the hunt for a bad ground when all of the above didnt fix the starter.

It was cold, wet, dark and getting late. I thought I would proof the bad ground theory by just taking a set of jumper cables to the ground terminal and hooking the other end to the starter itself. Still nothing...

This time I decided it was the starter and set out to prove it. I had my son pull it. I set it on the driveway with a piece of 2X4 on top of it to hold it down by standing on it. If you ever try this be sure the starter motor is anchored very well because these things put out a whole lot of torque and can go rogue in a New York Second.while securely anchored I hooked a jumper cable ground to the starter case and the positive to the lug where the cable goes. Then put the ground lead on the battery and energized it with the positive side of the battery. It barely kicked out and turned very slow. I proceeded to give the poor performer a well deserved beating with a hammer. It began to spin faster as I administered the liberal dose of mallet revenge. It was then that I understood we were headed for the parts store the following day...

[Gary Lewis]

Update: 01/22/19

That starter went bad as well. During the hunt for the failure we discovered a bad positive cable along with a bad battery that now dropped to 8 volts under a load . We replaced all of that and went on the hunt for a bad ground when all of the above didnt fix the starter.

It was cold, wet, dark and getting late. I thought I would proof the bad ground theory by just taking a set of jumper cables to the ground terminal and hooking the other end to the starter itself. Still nothing...

This time I decided it was the starter and set out to prove it. I had my son pull it. I set it on the driveway with a piece of 2X4 on top of it to hold it down by standing on it. If you ever try this be sure the starter motor is anchored very well because these things put out a whole lot of torque and can go rogue in a New York Second.while securely anchored I hooked a jumper cable ground to the starter case and the positive to the lug where the cable goes. Then put the ground lead on the battery and energized it with the positive side of the battery. It barely kicked out and turned very slow. I proceeded to give the poor performer a well deserved beating with a hammer. It began to spin faster as I administered the liberal dose of mallet revenge. It was then that I understood we were headed for the parts store the following day...

Glad to see that one more layer on the onion has been peeled. Soon you two will have a mess of onion rings. Maybe even a Bloomin' Onion!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Update: 01/22/19

That starter went bad as well. During the hunt for the failure we discovered a bad positive cable along with a bad battery that now dropped to 8 volts under a load . We replaced all of that and went on the hunt for a bad ground when all of the above didnt fix the starter.

It was cold, wet, dark and getting late. I thought I would proof the bad ground theory by just taking a set of jumper cables to the ground terminal and hooking the other end to the starter itself. Still nothing...

This time I decided it was the starter and set out to prove it. I had my son pull it. I set it on the driveway with a piece of 2X4 on top of it to hold it down by standing on it. If you ever try this be sure the starter motor is anchored very well because these things put out a whole lot of torque and can go rogue in a New York Second.while securely anchored I hooked a jumper cable ground to the starter case and the positive to the lug where the cable goes. Then put the ground lead on the battery and energized it with the positive side of the battery. It barely kicked out and turned very slow. I proceeded to give the poor performer a well deserved beating with a hammer. It began to spin faster as I administered the liberal dose of mallet revenge. It was then that I understood we were headed for the parts store the following day...

Motor windings can overheat quickly if they don't have enough available power.

Once the insulation cooks they are done for.

You've probably fixed the cause by changing the cable, but the symptom remains.

Do you think the low battery was due to excessive cranking?

Is the truck charging properly?

[Bruno2]

Motor windings can overheat quickly if they don't have enough available power.

Once the insulation cooks they are done for.

You've probably fixed the cause by changing the cable, but the symptom remains.

Do you think the low battery was due to excessive cranking?

Is the truck charging properly?

It had 12.58 static charge every time I tested it. A couple of weeks ago it didnt flinch under load. I am guessing the cable may have ruined the battery and the starter. Also, when I load tested the starter it had been on the battery charger.