New Page: Interchange

[Gary Lewis]

Today I added a page called Interchange. It was inspired by a post by Angelo Voltura on FaceBook explaining what window glass fits our trucks.

But there's LOTS of space on that page for more interchange information, so let's use this thread to manage that page. Please add your knowledge here.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary, On the 2nd page of my post on the fan shroud I have what I used for parts, what had to be done to make them fit and it also had the AC condenser and what was needed to fit the only part we can get for our truck over the counter.

Something like that is what you are looking for?

Dave ----

[Steve83]

...But there's LOTS of space on that page for more interchange information, so let's use this thread to manage that page. Please add your knowledge here.

Without any definition of scope, this could get messy, fast... It might be shorter to list things that CAN'T be swapped onto these trucks, but even that would be Library-of-Congress-size.

I'd like to contribute, but without some limitations (or at least guidelines) on what you're looking for, I wouldn't know where to start. Just the things I've actually done to mine would be boringly-long; that says nothing of all the things I've done to others, or that I haven't YET done even though I know they can be done.

- Modern EFI? Lots of incidental mods, and many choices during that process.

- Putting captain's chairs into a bench truck? Some people say floor mods are required, though I disagree.

- Factory rear disks? Welding is required, as are rims/tires and e-brake cable mods.

- Ammeter to voltmeter?

- What about other brands - Dodge 16" rims?

Or is your intent to list only Ford parts that fit, or that can be modified to fit? What level of modification? What level of skill/tools/equipment/cost?

I've thought about doing this for several years, but IDK enough about web page design to make it happen. I always end up imagining that it would have to begin with a "vehicle selection" menu (to choose YOUR truck) that would then go to a VERY complicated rotatable/zoomable/sectionable 3D model of the truck that a user could fly through to find the part/system of interest, and then explore a list of potential mods/replacements. The closest I've come to actually doing it is my SuperMotors registries - if you browse a photo album, and read the caption of a pic that relates to your project, many contain links to more pics &/or replacement PNs (usually linked to Amazon, just because the URLs are stable) &/or links to albums showing how to swap/modify the part/system. But it's not as inviting as the 3D idea (which will probably never happen). You have to really want to read & dig through the captions to find out IF your idea is mentioned in them.

As to your first entry...

This shows the difference:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/687493/thumbnail/doorglasses.jpg

But by simply removing this spacer from inside the back of the divider bar:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/687492/thumbnail/doorwindowspacer.jpg

...the older glass WILL work with the newer vent window (with a little extra slop).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/141231/thumbnail/l-door-to-dash.jpg

Also; the way you define the year range could confuse some people. The '97 F150 isn't the same as the '96 F150 or the '97 F350. So the parts interchange is really only up to '96, but also includes '97 trucks heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR (old body). The way I write it is "...-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR)" so there's no confusion with the later body style.

[Gary Lewis]

...But there's LOTS of space on that page for more interchange information, so let's use this thread to manage that page. Please add your knowledge here.

Without any definition of scope, this could get messy, fast... It might be shorter to list things that CAN'T be swapped onto these trucks, but even that would be Library-of-Congress-size.

I'd like to contribute, but without some limitations (or at least guidelines) on what you're looking for, I wouldn't know where to start. Just the things I've actually done to mine would be boringly-long; that says nothing of all the things I've done to others, or that I haven't YET done even though I know they can be done.

- Modern EFI? Lots of incidental mods, and many choices during that process.

- Putting captain's chairs into a bench truck? Some people say floor mods are required, though I disagree.

- Factory rear disks? Welding is required, as are rims/tires and e-brake cable mods.

- Ammeter to voltmeter?

- What about other brands - Dodge 16" rims?

Or is your intent to list only Ford parts that fit, or that can be modified to fit? What level of modification? What level of skill/tools/equipment/cost?

I've thought about doing this for several years, but IDK enough about web page design to make it happen. I always end up imagining that it would have to begin with a "vehicle selection" menu (to choose YOUR truck) that would then go to a VERY complicated rotatable/zoomable/sectionable 3D model of the truck that a user could fly through to find the part/system of interest, and then explore a list of potential mods/replacements. The closest I've come to actually doing it is my SuperMotors registries - if you browse a photo album, and read the caption of a pic that relates to your project, many contain links to more pics &/or replacement PNs (usually linked to Amazon, just because the URLs are stable) &/or links to albums showing how to swap/modify the part/system. But it's not as inviting as the 3D idea (which will probably never happen). You have to really want to read & dig through the captions to find out IF your idea is mentioned in them.

As to your first entry...

This shows the difference:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/687493/thumbnail/doorglasses.jpg

But by simply removing this spacer from inside the back of the divider bar:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/687492/thumbnail/doorwindowspacer.jpg

...the older glass WILL work with the newer vent window (with a little extra slop).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/141231/thumbnail/l-door-to-dash.jpg

Also; the way you define the year range could confuse some people. The '97 F150 isn't the same as the '96 F150 or the '97 F350. So the parts interchange is really only up to '96, but also includes '97 trucks heavier than 8500 lbs GVWR (old body). The way I write it is "...-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR)" so there's no confusion with the later body style.

Well, I had a response all typed in and lost it. Don't ask how as I don't know. Anyway, here goes again.

You asked good questions/had good points. And the definition or scope wasn't stated, at least not clearly. So, here's what I'm thinking:

Scope: Ford parts that will directly fit w/o modification. However, that does not exclude multiple changes, like the later window/vent window combination, which collectively bolt in.

So, with that scope let's work through your examples, with my answers in bold, and see what we have:

• Modern EFI? Lots of incidental mods, and many choices during that process. If there is a true bolt-on/plug-in Ford-supplied EFI system then it would fit. However, I can't imagine that there is.

• Putting captain's chairs into a bench truck? Some people say floor mods are required, though I disagree. Floor mod's would disqualify it. But, you can bolt in the later platform/base w/o modification. And, most floor mods are unsafe.

 

• Factory rear disks? Welding is required, as are rims/tires and e-brake cable mods. Mod's, and especially welding, would disqualify it. But changing tires/wheels wouldn't.

• Ammeter to voltmeter? You and I both know this ain't happening w/o wiring mods. But, I wish that wasn't the case.

• What about other brands - Dodge 16" rims? Nope, Ford only.

So, will that scope/definition work? Is it too restrictive?

 

[Steve83]

So, will that scope/definition work? Is it too restrictive?

If that's what you want it restricted to, it's fine. I just need some boundaries.

If there is a true bolt-on/plug-in Ford-supplied EFI system then it would fit. However, I can't imagine that there is.

Depends on your definition of "bolt-on". If you lift out the engine & wiring & fuel lines & tank(s) & exhaust, the newer stuff pretty much bolts in. That's how I originally put EFI on my '83. But wires WERE cut! (Not as many as you might think, though.)

And, most floor mods are unsafe.

So bolt-in Ford chairs only - gotcha.

...welding, would disqualify it. But changing tires/wheels wouldn't.

What about welding on the replacement part? Disqualifier? I'm just starting my rear disk project, by swapping the complete rear axle. But I have to cut the disk axle's spring perches & shock mounts off to weld on the ones that fit our trucks. Then it'll bolt in. But I haven't nailed down the e-brake cables yet.

...this ain't happening w/o wiring mods.

So no wiring changes at all? Or just no cutting? Adding a new wire/fuse/harness section - OK or not? The 3G & voltmeter swaps CAN be done without cutting, but it's much easier to wire the voltmeter if the film circuit on the back of the cluster is cut instead of just folded out of the way or taped off.

But I think I'm getting the idea of what you're after... I tend to think in terms of "improvements/upgrades/modernization", regardless of how invasive they might be. I'll try to shift my focus back to "parts interchange"... How are these?

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Inside W/S Trim: early upper clips are replaced by later screws (which self-drill into the hidden sheet metal) and '92-up is notched for RV mirror wiring; early metal upper door trim is integrated into later plastic A-pillar trim (also with later screws).

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Front Door Shell: '80-82 lack a hole for the sill button; '92-up have an extra hole for the mirror support (hidden by all RPO mirrors); '94-up have a larger hole for the wiring boot; '95-up have a side-impact beam (indicated by an extra subtle body line near the bottom); '96-up have a larger lock cylinder hole (requiring the later cylinder, or a plastic spacer).

- '84-91 F-series/Bronco Brake/Clutch Pedal Box Assembly: hydraulic linkage does not fit '80-83 without drilling the firewall, changing the cruise cancel switch connector, and plugging the pushrod hole.

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco MAP Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco ACT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR gasoline) F-series/Bronco ECT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Temperature Sender (Gauge): interchangeable from virtually all Ford/L/M products of the era.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Taillight Assembly: '80-86 grooved w/small reverse lens; '87-91 smooth with wraparound reverse lens; '92-96 smooth w/small reverse lens.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Pedal Assembly (w/front cable section): fits all wheelbases.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Tension Limiter/Equalizer: fits all wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco E-Brake Cables (axle sections): all axles/wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco Wheels, Hub Caps, Center Caps, & Lug Nuts: all RPO 1/2-ton wheels are 15" with 5-on-5.5" lug circle and cone-seat 1/2-20 lug nuts 13/16" drive.

I'm not 100% sure on the ACT & ECT connector shapes, though the sensors themselves screw in. And I could be wrong about the F250-350 tension limiter being interchangeable. But I think the others are correct.

[Rembrant]

So, will that scope/definition work? Is it too restrictive?

If that's what you want it restricted to, it's fine. I just need some boundaries.

If there is a true bolt-on/plug-in Ford-supplied EFI system then it would fit. However, I can't imagine that there is.

Depends on your definition of "bolt-on". If you lift out the engine & wiring & fuel lines & tank(s) & exhaust, the newer stuff pretty much bolts in. That's how I originally put EFI on my '83. But wires WERE cut! (Not as many as you might think, though.)

And, most floor mods are unsafe.

So bolt-in Ford chairs only - gotcha.

...welding, would disqualify it. But changing tires/wheels wouldn't.

What about welding on the replacement part? Disqualifier? I'm just starting my rear disk project, by swapping the complete rear axle. But I have to cut the disk axle's spring perches & shock mounts off to weld on the ones that fit our trucks. Then it'll bolt in. But I haven't nailed down the e-brake cables yet.

...this ain't happening w/o wiring mods.

So no wiring changes at all? Or just no cutting? Adding a new wire/fuse/harness section - OK or not? The 3G & voltmeter swaps CAN be done without cutting, but it's much easier to wire the voltmeter if the film circuit on the back of the cluster is cut instead of just folded out of the way or taped off.

But I think I'm getting the idea of what you're after... I tend to think in terms of "improvements/upgrades/modernization", regardless of how invasive they might be. I'll try to shift my focus back to "parts interchange"... How are these?

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Inside W/S Trim: early upper clips are replaced by later screws (which self-drill into the hidden sheet metal) and '92-up is notched for RV mirror wiring; early metal upper door trim is integrated into later plastic A-pillar trim (also with later screws).

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Front Door Shell: '80-82 lack a hole for the sill button; '92-up have an extra hole for the mirror support (hidden by all RPO mirrors); '94-up have a larger hole for the wiring boot; '95-up have a side-impact beam (indicated by an extra subtle body line near the bottom); '96-up have a larger lock cylinder hole (requiring the later cylinder, or a plastic spacer).

- '84-91 F-series/Bronco Brake/Clutch Pedal Box Assembly: hydraulic linkage does not fit '80-83 without drilling the firewall, changing the cruise cancel switch connector, and plugging the pushrod hole.

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco MAP Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco ACT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR gasoline) F-series/Bronco ECT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Temperature Sender (Gauge): interchangeable from virtually all Ford/L/M products of the era.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Taillight Assembly: '80-86 grooved w/small reverse lens; '87-91 smooth with wraparound reverse lens; '92-96 smooth w/small reverse lens.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Pedal Assembly (w/front cable section): fits all wheelbases.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Tension Limiter/Equalizer: fits all wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco E-Brake Cables (axle sections): all axles/wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco Wheels, Hub Caps, Center Caps, & Lug Nuts: all RPO 1/2-ton wheels are 15" with 5-on-5.5" lug circle and cone-seat 1/2-20 lug nuts 13/16" drive.

I'm not 100% sure on the ACT & ECT connector shapes, though the sensors themselves screw in. And I could be wrong about the F250-350 tension limiter being interchangeable. But I think the others are correct.

Well, we know that the beds all swap with ease...

If installing a 1987-1996 bed on a Bullnose is not the most common later model part swap, I'll eat a Duraspark ignition module. (Not all at once, but in little bites)...

[Gary Lewis]

So, will that scope/definition work? Is it too restrictive?

If that's what you want it restricted to, it's fine. I just need some boundaries.

If there is a true bolt-on/plug-in Ford-supplied EFI system then it would fit. However, I can't imagine that there is.

Depends on your definition of "bolt-on". If you lift out the engine & wiring & fuel lines & tank(s) & exhaust, the newer stuff pretty much bolts in. That's how I originally put EFI on my '83. But wires WERE cut! (Not as many as you might think, though.)

And, most floor mods are unsafe.

So bolt-in Ford chairs only - gotcha.

...welding, would disqualify it. But changing tires/wheels wouldn't.

What about welding on the replacement part? Disqualifier? I'm just starting my rear disk project, by swapping the complete rear axle. But I have to cut the disk axle's spring perches & shock mounts off to weld on the ones that fit our trucks. Then it'll bolt in. But I haven't nailed down the e-brake cables yet.

...this ain't happening w/o wiring mods.

So no wiring changes at all? Or just no cutting? Adding a new wire/fuse/harness section - OK or not? The 3G & voltmeter swaps CAN be done without cutting, but it's much easier to wire the voltmeter if the film circuit on the back of the cluster is cut instead of just folded out of the way or taped off.

But I think I'm getting the idea of what you're after... I tend to think in terms of "improvements/upgrades/modernization", regardless of how invasive they might be. I'll try to shift my focus back to "parts interchange"... How are these?

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Inside W/S Trim: early upper clips are replaced by later screws (which self-drill into the hidden sheet metal) and '92-up is notched for RV mirror wiring; early metal upper door trim is integrated into later plastic A-pillar trim (also with later screws).

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Front Door Shell: '80-82 lack a hole for the sill button; '92-up have an extra hole for the mirror support (hidden by all RPO mirrors); '94-up have a larger hole for the wiring boot; '95-up have a side-impact beam (indicated by an extra subtle body line near the bottom); '96-up have a larger lock cylinder hole (requiring the later cylinder, or a plastic spacer).

- '84-91 F-series/Bronco Brake/Clutch Pedal Box Assembly: hydraulic linkage does not fit '80-83 without drilling the firewall, changing the cruise cancel switch connector, and plugging the pushrod hole.

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco MAP Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-95 F-series/Bronco ACT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines (w/o MAF, '94-95 RPO).

- '85-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR gasoline) F-series/Bronco ECT Sensor: interchangeable among all EFI truck engines.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Temperature Sender (Gauge): interchangeable from virtually all Ford/L/M products of the era.

- '80-96 (& '97 >8500GVWR) F-series/Bronco Taillight Assembly: '80-86 grooved w/small reverse lens; '87-91 smooth with wraparound reverse lens; '92-96 smooth w/small reverse lens.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Pedal Assembly (w/front cable section): fits all wheelbases.

- '80-91 F-series/Bronco E-Brake Tension Limiter/Equalizer: fits all wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco E-Brake Cables (axle sections): all axles/wheelbases.

- '80-96 F150/Bronco Wheels, Hub Caps, Center Caps, & Lug Nuts: all RPO 1/2-ton wheels are 15" with 5-on-5.5" lug circle and cone-seat 1/2-20 lug nuts 13/16" drive.

I'm not 100% sure on the ACT & ECT connector shapes, though the sensors themselves screw in. And I could be wrong about the F250-350 tension limiter being interchangeable. But I think the others are correct.

Steve - Let's go with the "no cutting/welding" approach initially. I think there are plenty of things we can capture with that guideline to keep us busy for a while, and then we can see if we need to mod the guideline.

As for EFI being "bolt-on", and you know this better than I since you've done it and I'm only planning it, the wiring scheme changed significantly enough between the Bullnose era and the later trucks that the number of changes required to integrate the two is mind-boggling. Going from fusible links hanging off the solenoid to individual fuses in a neat box on the left fender is causing me to ponder my sanity.

On the disc brake idea, how about if we have another category called maybe "Upgrades" or "Modifications" or somesuch? And on the 3G/voltmeter issue, I think the how-to on the 3G instructions could be improved. As you've pointed out, if the alternator's output is taken off the shunt there's no reason to remove the shunt. And, then there's no need to cut the wires to the ammeter, although it'll only register discharge and not charge. But in both of these cases we'll need a write-up on how to make it happen. So we can't just put up a list that says "you can swap this part in place of that part", which is what I'd intended for the Interchange page.

Anyway, your list of suggestions is a good one. But I need to get my head around each of them and write them up in the format I'm envisioning, plus come back and ask questions so I understand. Thanks!

Cory - Yes, the later model bed will swap, and it is fairly common - albeit less than comely. (I remember watching the made-for-TV movie Waco and pointing out to my wife a Bullnose with a Bricknose bed. ) And, since Steve has pointed out that the later tail light lenses will sway then we need to include the beds themselves.

All - Keep those ideas coming in! To some extent I need to see how far-ranging the interchange list is going to be in order to know how to organize this page.

[85lebaront2]

Steve - Let's go with the "no cutting/welding" approach initially. I think there are plenty of things we can capture with that guideline to keep us busy for a while, and then we can see if we need to mod the guideline.

As for EFI being "bolt-on", and you know this better than I since you've done it and I'm only planning it, the wiring scheme changed significantly enough between the Bullnose era and the later trucks that the number of changes required to integrate the two is mind-boggling. Going from fusible links hanging off the solenoid to individual fuses in a neat box on the left fender is causing me to ponder my sanity.

On the disc brake idea, how about if we have another category called maybe "Upgrades" or "Modifications" or somesuch? And on the 3G/voltmeter issue, I think the how-to on the 3G instructions could be improved. As you've pointed out, if the alternator's output is taken off the shunt there's no reason to remove the shunt. And, then there's no need to cut the wires to the ammeter, although it'll only register discharge and not charge. But in both of these cases we'll need a write-up on how to make it happen. So we can't just put up a list that says "you can swap this part in place of that part", which is what I'd intended for the Interchange page.

Anyway, your list of suggestions is a good one. But I need to get my head around each of them and write them up in the format I'm envisioning, plus come back and ask questions so I understand. Thanks!

Cory - Yes, the later model bed will swap, and it is fairly common - albeit less than comely. (I remember watching the made-for-TV movie Waco and pointing out to my wife a Bullnose with a Bricknose bed. ) And, since Steve has pointed out that the later tail light lenses will sway then we need to include the beds themselves.

All - Keep those ideas coming in! To some extent I need to see how far-ranging the interchange list is going to be in order to know how to organize this page.

Bed swap, the 1985/86 DRW bed is different from the 1980-1984 bed due to the axle change, Try to find a good 1985/86 DRW bed and fenders. Maybe in the SW you could find a bed, but I wouldn't bet on the fenders being any good after 30+ years in the sun.

The 1987/97 DRW bed is a drop on, with a couple of issues. Tailgate is different, tail light openings are a slightly different shape. Wiring is completely different connectors Ford was moving from open wedgelock and the molded "pull apart" connectors to smaller weatherproof connectors. Since the DRW trucks have marker lights in the fenders and frequently a set of three under the tailgate (depends on local laws where the truck was sold) the bed harness for the tail lights and marker lights changed. The older ones will fit, but even the marker light pigtails are different.

The bed body line differences are not as noticeable on a DRW truck as very little of the actual side panel is visible. Fenders will swap between the two beds so if you have good fenders, they can be reused.

For anyone planning on a bed swap on a styleside of any configuration, I highly recommend getting the proper end bolts from Ford, they have a strange flattened center that goes into a square tube through the bed floor and cross beams, the center bolts are a regular carriage bolt. Maybe by now the aftermarket suppliers have the end bolts, when I did Darth's bed I ordered a set that was supposedly correct, wrong! The six bolts were all carriage bolts and the end ones were a sloppy loose fit in the holes and with the prevailing torque nuts, impossible to tighten.

[Steve83]

...the number of changes required to integrate the two is mind-boggling.

That's what everyone THINKS, but it's really not that bad if you make careful choices about WHERE to make the transition from old to new wire.

Going from fusible links hanging off the solenoid to individual fuses in a neat box on the left fender is causing me to ponder my sanity.

That discussion is probably best left to another thread (do you have a project/build thread for it?), but suffice it to say: the more new wiring you use, the easier the job becomes.

..."you can swap this part in place of that part", which is what I'd intended for the Interchange page.

It took a while for that to sink in, but I'm with you now.

Yes, the later model bed will swap, and it is fairly common - albeit less than comely.

I'd make sure to mention the change in body lines at the wheel arches in '87, and the change to the t/g latches/supports/hinges in '90. Didn't the bed bolts also change at some point, which changed their holes in the bed's structure? Common square-boss carriage bolts at first, becoming oval-boss by the mid 90s?

https://supermotors.net/getfile/853035/thumbnail/44bedbolt.jpg

[85lebaront2]

...the number of changes required to integrate the two is mind-boggling.

That's what everyone THINKS, but it's really not that bad if you make careful choices about WHERE to make the transition from old to new wire.

Going from fusible links hanging off the solenoid to individual fuses in a neat box on the left fender is causing me to ponder my sanity.

That discussion is probably best left to another thread (do you have a project/build thread for it?), but suffice it to say: the more new wiring you use, the easier the job becomes.

..."you can swap this part in place of that part", which is what I'd intended for the Interchange page.

It took a while for that to sink in, but I'm with you now.

Yes, the later model bed will swap, and it is fairly common - albeit less than comely.

I'd make sure to mention the change in body lines at the wheel arches in '87, and the change to the t/g latches/supports/hinges in '90. Didn't the bed bolts also change at some point, which changed their holes in the bed's structure? Common square-boss carriage bolts at first, becoming oval-boss by the mid 90s?

https://supermotors.net/getfile/853035/thumbnail/44bedbolt.jpg

Steve, I don't know exactly when the bed bolt change was, but when I put the 1996 bed on Darth the 4 end bolts were the oval shank and had larger heads than the center square-boss carriage bolts. Thread was the same on all 6 bolts though.