3G alternator new or used?

[Vic Roma]

Really glad you didn't lose the truck Vic! 🙏

No, they're not going to do anything about a popped fuse link.

But what you can do is upgrade to the much safer 3G alternator, and use a HMEG with a fuse instead of relying on an undersized wire to protect your truck.

Thanks Gary, Jim. I too am SO relieved it didn’t self-immolate. Glad I made you laugh.

I know full well it was a stupid question, but I was hoping someone might have said yes you can do something like a product recall... The motivation was I had an airbag product recall on a 2004 car where they swapped it out. It was wishful thinking.

BTW I was also referring to claiming for the alternator that was billowing plumes of smoke like it was sending distress signals to a neighboring tribe, not the blown wire.

Anyhow, it’s time for the upgrade for sure, no choice really. Instead of hunting for a used Taurus alternator and harness etc., is it worth buying a *new* 130A Motorcraft alternator, or some other decent brand (need to research) with higher output? I vaguely remember reading somewhere in the documentation and/or comments that any more than 130 and I could fry my wires (again!). Is this true?

I was under the impression an alternator should only pump out what the systems demands, and no more.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks Gary, Jim. I too am SO relieved it didn’t self-immolate. Glad I made you laugh.

I know full well it was a stupid question, but I was hoping someone might have said yes you can do something like a product recall... The motivation was I had an airbag product recall on a 2004 car where they swapped it out. It was wishful thinking.

BTW I was also referring to claiming for the alternator that was billowing plumes of smoke like it was sending distress signals to a neighboring tribe, not the blown wire.

Anyhow, it’s time for the upgrade for sure, no choice really. Instead of hunting for a used Taurus alternator and harness etc., is it worth buying a *new* 130A Motorcraft alternator, or some other decent brand (need to research) with higher output? I vaguely remember reading somewhere in the documentation and/or comments that any more than 130 and I could fry my wires (again!). Is this true?

I was under the impression an alternator should only pump out what the systems demands, and no more.

You have a choice of 95A or 130A 3G.

I bought an inexpensive one from JB electrical and just commented the other day that it's been trouble free since I installed a LRC (white) regulator, and it doesn't chirp on startup any more.

An alternator SHOULD only put out what is called for.

That's the regulators function.

I was also referring to claiming for the alternator that was billowing plumes of smoke like it was sending distress signals to a neighboring tribe, not the blown wire.

In the 2G the charge plug gets corroded, or that twinned fuse link fails and the regulator goes full field until the alternator kills itself. (the cause of the alternator meltdown)

It's either charging into a void, or the plug melts and it starts charging into a dead short on its own case.

Either way the windings and diode board can't last for long like that.

When we do a 3G swap we take the yellow "sense" wire and loop it right over to the output stud.

There should be no way to have a meltdown unless that 3" of wire gets cut.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I vaguely remember reading somewhere in the documentation and/or comments that any more than 130 and I could fry my wires (again!). Is this true?

I didn't address this.

--You can fry the shunt wire if you have an ammeter AND have a big load somewhere on the cab wiring--

The 3G output should always be fused.

You can get MegaFuses of many sizes.

By connecting to the other side of the shunt the ammeter no longer works but there is no danger of wires melting.

The recommended solution is to have the ammeter converted to a voltmeter, and have it wired to key on power.

It looks stock and doesn't limit any current you need flowing.

[Vic Roma]

I vaguely remember reading somewhere in the documentation and/or comments that any more than 130 and I could fry my wires (again!). Is this true?

I didn't address this.

--You can fry the shunt wire if you have an ammeter AND have a big load somewhere on the cab wiring--

The 3G output should always be fused.

You can get MegaFuses of many sizes.

By connecting to the other side of the shunt the ammeter no longer works but there is no danger of wires melting.

The recommended solution is to have the ammeter converted to a voltmeter, and have it wired to key on power.

It looks stock and doesn't limit any current you need flowing.

Thanks, Jim.

In preparation for an eventual 3G upgrade, last year I bought a converted ammeter from Bob.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to go higher than 130A?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks, Jim.

In preparation for an eventual 3G upgrade, last year I bought a converted ammeter from Bob.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to go higher than 130A?

There are updated 3G alternators with thicker copper traces on the diode board and bigger heatsink.

Bill Voss has a 160A in Darth, his '86 dually.

The limit really is how much torque a belt can transmit.

Single V belt will start slipping before 100A and the polygroove belt on later trucks probably won't go much more than 140-150.

Ambulance equipped E3/450's had a 200A Mitsubishi alternator with a much wider ribbed belt.

[Gary Lewis]

There are updated 3G alternators with thicker copper traces on the diode board and bigger heatsink.

Bill Voss has a 160A in Darth, his '86 dually.

The limit really is how much torque a belt can transmit.

Single V belt will start slipping before 100A and the polygroove belt on later trucks probably won't go much more than 140-150.

Ambulance equipped E3/450's had a 200A Mitsubishi alternator with a much wider ribbed belt.

Vic - Jim has laid it all out, but most of that is also on our page here: Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversion.

As for going with more than 160 amps, in theory I did that for Dad's by replacing the diodes with one capable of 160 amps. And I replaced the standard regulator with one that brings the current on slowly (LRC) as it will be run by twin v-belts. But that alternator hasn't been run yet, so I can't say it works.

However, if I had to find an 3G alternator today, I'd do as Jim did and by one from DB Electrical. The page above says "For instance, DB Electrical currently (2/8/2019) sells the F4PZ 10346-B from the list above for from $78 for a 130 amp unit up to $278 for a 220 amp unit - with a 1-year warranty." How badly do you need the extra current?

[ArdWrknTrk]

if I had to find an 3G alternator today, I'd do as Jim did and by one from DB Electrical. The page above says "For instance, DB Electrical currently.....up to $278 for a 220 amp unit - with a 1-year warranty." How badly do you need the extra current?

ISWYDT

Your next tutorial needs to be: Converting your alternator to 520 chain drive for MOAR Amps!

 

[Gary Lewis]

if I had to find an 3G alternator today, I'd do as Jim did and by one from DB Electrical. The page above says "For instance, DB Electrical currently.....up to $278 for a 220 amp unit - with a 1-year warranty." How badly do you need the extra current?

ISWYDT

Your next tutorial needs to be: Converting your alternator to 520 chain drive for MOAR Amps!

That was just serendipity. A slip of the fingers.

But yes, it would take a serious drive system to power an alternator while it put out 220 amps. Probably a gilmer belt?

[Rusty_S85]

Vic - Jim has laid it all out, but most of that is also on our page here: Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversion.

As for going with more than 160 amps, in theory I did that for Dad's by replacing the diodes with one capable of 160 amps. And I replaced the standard regulator with one that brings the current on slowly (LRC) as it will be run by twin v-belts. But that alternator hasn't been run yet, so I can't say it works.

However, if I had to find an 3G alternator today, I'd do as Jim did and by one from DB Electrical. The page above says "For instance, DB Electrical currently (2/8/2019) sells the F4PZ 10346-B from the list above for from $78 for a 130 amp unit up to $278 for a 220 amp unit - with a 1-year warranty." How badly do you need the extra current?

Yep that is the alternator I keep looking at for my conversion for my truck but I still am holding out hope all my reading and research will net me a 95A wide ear 3G alternator but I think id have a better chance photographing bigfoot riding a unicorn at this stage as I just dont believe it exist anymore if it even existed at one time.

Just sucks for me cause my plan was for the 95A and gauge wise I am hoping to just toss my whole OE cluster for one of the RTX gauges from Dakota Digital for our trucks when they release it.

There are cheaper 3G`s though on rock auto brand new than from DB Electrical but you have to know what you are looking for year/make/model wise.

[Vic Roma]

Vic - Jim has laid it all out, but most of that is also on our page here: Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversion.

As for going with more than 160 amps, in theory I did that for Dad's by replacing the diodes with one capable of 160 amps. And I replaced the standard regulator with one that brings the current on slowly (LRC) as it will be run by twin v-belts. But that alternator hasn't been run yet, so I can't say it works.

However, if I had to find an 3G alternator today, I'd do as Jim did and by one from DB Electrical. The page above says "For instance, DB Electrical currently (2/8/2019) sells the F4PZ 10346-B from the list above for from $78 for a 130 amp unit up to $278 for a 220 amp unit - with a 1-year warranty." How badly do you need the extra current? http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/money-flying-23_orig.png

"How badly do you need the extra current?"

Now that I know better, not badly at all.

I finally have a 3G alternator ready for the install. I am unsure what to do with the harness from splice S204 to C610. As others have found out, there are many online videos, articles and forum posts of how to upgrade, but many pertain to Fox-body Mustangs and later model trucks, and few that explain (clearly) how to modify the harness such as I have. Hopefully this post is a comprehensive tutorial for the uninitiated.

Searching for 3G related posts and reading the content, Gary, I saw your statement "...the shunt needs to be removed if you go to a high-output alternator as they have been known to melt when not removed."

In order to clean up the wiring now that I have the chance, which wires can I remove to make the entire upgrade more efficient/clean, which do I connect to the new harness, and/or the battery side of the starter relay?

Using the above as reference:

- Do I cut the splice S204 (see EVTM, circled in yellow) and attach it to the alternator's output stud, as well as run the (Painless 3G harness) heavy gauge red wire from the same output post through a mega fuse to the battery?

- If I remove the black shunt wire, do I cut it out entirely, or merely disconnect from splice S202 (but keep it connected at splice S203), and cap it off for later use? Steve83 wrote, "The shunt is large enough for what it will be doing after the alternator output is run directly to the starter relay (battery side), so it's not worth the effort or risk to pull a wire out of the harness. Just disconnect & tag the gauge wires, in case you find some other use for them later (like LEDs...)."

- Do I still need to replace the 16GA Fusible Link (that exploded), as it branches off at S203 to a red wire that leads to one side of the ammeter, and the other to the yellow wire from the 2G ASI connector (in the bottom picture, it's hanging over the fender)? I'm guessing yes but if the new 3G ASI yellow wire can connect to the output post, then where does the 2G yellow wire go? If the shunt is gone, then S203 loses the yellow and black, so to where do the red and fuse link J connect?

Just want to be sure before I cut and regret.