Duraspark Conversion Fail

[844rd]

It seems like you don't have a ground on the fender. Try running a jumper from the battery's ground to the solenoid's mounting screw. That will bypass the battery/frame/fender ground path, and if you then jumper to the S terminal a good solenoid will pull in.

well Gary I just tried that and nothing happen:nabble_smiley_angry: Hope the Motorcraft one will work but thanks for the ideas. We will just keep trying! I go back on shift to work tonight so it will be later next week before I get back out there on it. I think I need some time away from it anyway. I will try and post a drawing of the Painless sheet and what I done different this week because I still have questions understanding how this works...

[Ferdinand]

well Gary I just tried that and nothing happen:nabble_smiley_angry: Hope the Motorcraft one will work but thanks for the ideas. We will just keep trying! I go back on shift to work tonight so it will be later next week before I get back out there on it. I think I need some time away from it anyway. I will try and post a drawing of the Painless sheet and what I done different this week because I still have questions understanding how this works...

For what its worth, From a fully charged (12.8v) battery, I kept pulling down to 7 volts when turning the key, when trying to get my Bronco going. I bought all new ignition parts (DSII) and the magic bullet was the secondary bond from engine block to frame. I put a brand new 2ga. ground from the frame to battery but finally realized the starter grounds through its mounting bolts and not by wire, so once I put the bonding strap from block to frame it started without hesitation. I know you are dealing with way more complicated concepts here but thought I would throw this in for what its worth. The Devil is in the details and man, faulty/missing grounds are some details that will make you pull your hair out!!!

Good luck! And don't lose heart!!

[FuzzFace2]

It seems like you don't have a ground on the fender. Try running a jumper from the battery's ground to the solenoid's mounting screw. That will bypass the battery/frame/fender ground path, and if you then jumper to the S terminal a good solenoid will pull in.

I was thinking the same thing, bad ground for the relay.

Then you posted that did not work

I wonder if you removed it from the truck and using a fully charged battery & jumper cables to "bench test" how it would work? I cant see all of three being bad.

As for the brown & white wires not hooked up and the truck runs what DSII module are you using an old Motorcraft or some aftermarket one?

I ask because I think I seen posts of the white wire causing a no start or made no difference.

Did Gary or anyone say where the BR & WH wires get hooked up to from the factory?

Not that I can see them going to the IGN switch would help / hurt?

Thanks for the run down.

Dave ----

[844rd]

It seems like you don't have a ground on the fender. Try running a jumper from the battery's ground to the solenoid's mounting screw. That will bypass the battery/frame/fender ground path, and if you then jumper to the S terminal a good solenoid will pull in.

I was thinking the same thing, bad ground for the relay.

Then you posted that did not work

I wonder if you removed it from the truck and using a fully charged battery & jumper cables to "bench test" how it would work? I cant see all of three being bad.

As for the brown & white wires not hooked up and the truck runs what DSII module are you using an old Motorcraft or some aftermarket one?

I ask because I think I seen posts of the white wire causing a no start or made no difference.

Did Gary or anyone say where the BR & WH wires get hooked up to from the factory?

Not that I can see them going to the IGN switch would help / hurt?

Thanks for the run down.

Dave ----

Thanks Ferdinand and Dave for the for the thoughts! It's got to be something simple. The only thing with the ground is the old Motorcraft relay engages the starter it just hung open and none of the Standard brands will work. Now I did see a youtube about testing the continuity between the ground point and the "S" stud and you should get 4.0. I did this on the Motorcraft (after if hung open) and got 4.0 but I got 0 on all 3 Standard. This was done with them off the truck.

But like you guys are saying it still my be a simple ground. As far as the module, it is a new Motorcraft I got from Amazon. I will try tonight to post the Painless diagram and mark it up the was I did it because I sure have some questions about just how it works.

[844rd]

It seems like you don't have a ground on the fender. Try running a jumper from the battery's ground to the solenoid's mounting screw. That will bypass the battery/frame/fender ground path, and if you then jumper to the S terminal a good solenoid will pull in.

I was thinking the same thing, bad ground for the relay.

Then you posted that did not work

I wonder if you removed it from the truck and using a fully charged battery & jumper cables to "bench test" how it would work? I cant see all of three being bad.

As for the brown & white wires not hooked up and the truck runs what DSII module are you using an old Motorcraft or some aftermarket one?

I ask because I think I seen posts of the white wire causing a no start or made no difference.

Did Gary or anyone say where the BR & WH wires get hooked up to from the factory?

Not that I can see them going to the IGN switch would help / hurt?

Thanks for the run down.

Dave ----

Here is the markup for what I done.

Questions:

1. How does that 2 to 1 hot wire work and how does it know if it is plugged into EEC or DS-2

2. Should I tie the white wire in anywhere? But like I said the truck runs good without it.

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Here is the markup for what I done.

Questions:

1. How does that 2 to 1 hot wire work and how does it know if it is plugged into EEC or DS-2

2. Should I tie the white wire in anywhere? But like I said the truck runs good without it.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Kevin - It is difficult to compare three drawings: yours from Painless; the Duraspark in the 1985 EVTM; and the EEC in the 1985 EVTM. (The latter two are on pages 27 and 28, respectively, here: Electrical/1985 EVTM/Start & Ignition Gasoline) But I think I'm sorta kinda getting my mind wrapped around them.

To your questions, the EEC system does have the same resistor to drop voltage to the coil. Look at the drawing from Page 28, below, and you'll see that there's a 1.1 ohm resistor. My blue line shows how the current flows to the coil in Run, and the red line shows how the resistor is bypassed in Start. So in Run the coil should see something like 7 volts, but in Start it should see full battery voltage.

And here's the Duraspark wiring diagram from Page 27. It is laid out differently, but you still have the 1.1 ohm resistor and the coil still sees a reduced voltage in Run and full voltage in Start.

Does that answer Question 1?

As for Question 2, if your engine is not kicking back then I wouldn't worry about the white wire.

Now, for my question: You show that you tied the coil wire to "hot". But, have you confirmed that you are getting something like 7 volts to the coil? That the resistor is actually being used? Or, maybe I should ask exactly where you tied into the red/light green wire? I want to make sure you tied in after the resistor.

[844rd]

Kevin - It is difficult to compare three drawings: yours from Painless; the Duraspark in the 1985 EVTM; and the EEC in the 1985 EVTM. (The latter two are on pages 27 and 28, respectively, here: Electrical/1985 EVTM/Start & Ignition Gasoline) But I think I'm sorta kinda getting my mind wrapped around them.

To your questions, the EEC system does have the same resistor to drop voltage to the coil. Look at the drawing from Page 28, below, and you'll see that there's a 1.1 ohm resistor. My blue line shows how the current flows to the coil in Run, and the red line shows how the resistor is bypassed in Start. So in Run the coil should see something like 7 volts, but in Start it should see full battery voltage.

And here's the Duraspark wiring diagram from Page 27. It is laid out differently, but you still have the 1.1 ohm resistor and the coil still sees a reduced voltage in Run and full voltage in Start.

Does that answer Question 1?

As for Question 2, if your engine is not kicking back then I wouldn't worry about the white wire.

Now, for my question: You show that you tied the coil wire to "hot". But, have you confirmed that you are getting something like 7 volts to the coil? That the resistor is actually being used? Or, maybe I should ask exactly where you tied into the red/light green wire? I want to make sure you tied in after the resistor.

Thank you Gary for your work and support!! I did tie into the hot wire after the two wires came into one and used the old eec plug. There is no kick back when starting, so I will leave it like it is. My new starter relay came in today, so when I get a chance I'm going to put it on and see what happens. I will also verify the volts at the coil. This has been way more complicated than I thought it would be! Just simple mistakes will drive you crazy. It will be all worth it and satisfying in the end. Hopefully someone can learn from my experiences.🙄

[Gary Lewis]

Thank you Gary for your work and support!! I did tie into the hot wire after the two wires came into one and used the old eec plug. There is no kick back when starting, so I will leave it like it is. My new starter relay came in today, so when I get a chance I'm going to put it on and see what happens. I will also verify the volts at the coil. This has been way more complicated than I thought it would be! Just simple mistakes will drive you crazy. It will be all worth it and satisfying in the end. Hopefully someone can learn from my experiences.🙄

You are almost there. Hang in there.

[844rd]

You are almost there. Hang in there.

SUCCESS!!! I put the Motorcraft starter relay in and the old truck fired right up. So there were 3 bad relays from 3 different parts stores in two different towns?? They were all the Standard brand and the "best" that they had on the shelf. They all said it was the right part for my truck so I don't know if Standard has had a bad run or what. It makes me a little nervous because I have a standard brand coil and my back up coil is Standard also we will see how long they last but the truck runs so smooth now.

Here are the pics of the 2 relays. Testing between the start stud and the ground. None of the Standard brands has any numbers on the meter??

[Gary Lewis]

SUCCESS!!! I put the Motorcraft starter relay in and the old truck fired right up. So there were 3 bad relays from 3 different parts stores in two different towns?? They were all the Standard brand and the "best" that they had on the shelf. They all said it was the right part for my truck so I don't know if Standard has had a bad run or what. It makes me a little nervous because I have a standard brand coil and my back up coil is Standard also we will see how long they last but the truck runs so smooth now.

Here are the pics of the 2 relays. Testing between the start stud and the ground. None of the Standard brands has any numbers on the meter??

Kevin - You are testing correctly. And, you are right - Standard Motor Products is having a bad run of luck.

My brother sold for them back in the 70's, so I'll have to give him a hard time about this. But I've heard of people collecting Motorcraft solenoids from the salvage 'cause there's a known problem of bad solenoids "NIB". Terrible.

Anyway, glad you got it going!