Early GT-350/GT-500 Thread - 1965-70

[Bronco638]

It appears I'm not the only forum inmate that's owned an early Shelby GT-350 or GT-500. I'm always amazed at the amount of cross-over between Ford vehicles (but, I really shouldn't be, economies of scale and all). That said, there are somethings, like the 4-speed Toploader transmission, that I'd love to have in my truck but know that they're now expensive to purchase and may not fit well in my application (1980 F-150).

That said, let's reminisce! I'll bring a post over from another thread to get this going.

[Bronco638]

I was just reading through some of the posts and saw your comment about

running 80-90 wt gear lube in the GT350s. I ran that in mine, I actually

never had the close ratio T10 as the transmission had been "stolen". I was

told the police had recovered it and I should be able to get it back from

them with the car titled in my name. Not quite, the Suffolk VA police never

even had a report, they said he probably sold it.

The engine was out of the car and in a local machine shop (that's how I got

the car, owner told me the car was for sale). I wound up with two different

transmissions, a wide ratio T10 and a Ford toploader. For street use, the

wide ratio was great. Detroit locker was gone, rear end gear was a 4.56,

which did get replaced with a proper 3.89 gear and a new "silent" Detroit

locker (if that was silent, I really do not want to hear the non-silent

one).

I had the car for 11 years, 1970 through 1981, sold it because we had 3 kids

and needed the money. Current owner is in Sidney, NSW, Australia, car was

SFM6S2050. Here's a pic:

This was at a high speed event at an, at the time, unused portion on a local

airfield, this a turn from one taxiway onto one runway. It was called

"Corvette corner" because 19 of the first 20 cars spun trying to make it,

car 20 was a GT350, not mine though.

Have I got some tales for you Bill..... More to come.

[Bronco638]

I was just reading through some of the posts and saw your comment about

running 80-90 wt gear lube in the GT350s. I ran that in mine, I actually

never had the close ratio T10 as the transmission had been "stolen". I was

told the police had recovered it and I should be able to get it back from

them with the car titled in my name. Not quite, the Suffolk VA police never

even had a report, they said he probably sold it.

The engine was out of the car and in a local machine shop (that's how I got

the car, owner told me the car was for sale). I wound up with two different

transmissions, a wide ratio T10 and a Ford toploader. For street use, the

wide ratio was great. Detroit locker was gone, rear end gear was a 4.56,

which did get replaced with a proper 3.89 gear and a new "silent" Detroit

locker (if that was silent, I really do not want to hear the non-silent

one).

I had the car for 11 years, 1970 through 1981, sold it because we had 3 kids

and needed the money. Current owner is in Sidney, NSW, Australia, car was

SFM6S2050. Here's a pic:

This was at a high speed event at an, at the time, unused portion on a local

airfield, this a turn from one taxiway onto one runway. It was called

"Corvette corner" because 19 of the first 20 cars spun trying to make it,

car 20 was a GT350, not mine though.

Have I got some tales for you Bill..... More to come.

For now, here's this. This is 6S648 in the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca (now Mazda Raceway) in 2018. This was my Dad's car. Originally dark green metallic with white LeMans stripes, we added chrome yellow between the LeMans stripes as well as to the intake portion of the R-Model apron. I got the idea from the way some of the old Aston-Martin DB sports cars were painted. After my Dad sold it, the car was crashed pretty severely at Watkins Glen, in the early 90s. It's been rebuilt and is now owned by an Australian but resides in the US (as far as I know). The paint has been modified so the LeMans stripes are now one solid stripe with yellow at the edges. The intake area of the apron only has yellow at the bottom of it now. Still, a pretty car but I haven't seen it since my Dad sold it.

 

[85pig]

LOL - I wish. I've been mostly relegated to Mercury Comets and Ford Torinos. My "give up an organ" car is the DeTomaso Pantera. If I ever win the lottery....

Always wanted a Sunbeam Tiger as a kid, until I sat in one as an adult. At 6'-5", it was never meant to be.

[85lebaront2]

For now, here's this. This is 6S648 in the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca (now Mazda Raceway) in 2018. This was my Dad's car. Originally dark green metallic with white LeMans stripes, we added chrome yellow between the LeMans stripes as well as to the intake portion of the R-Model apron. I got the idea from the way some of the old Aston-Martin DB sports cars were painted. After my Dad sold it, the car was crashed pretty severely at Watkins Glen, in the early 90s. It's been rebuilt and is now owned by an Australian but resides in the US (as far as I know). The paint has been modified so the LeMans stripes are now one solid stripe with yellow at the edges. The intake area of the apron only has yellow at the bottom of it now. Still, a pretty car but I haven't seen it since my Dad sold it.

At the time I purchased it we had just moved the business I was part of up the street and across from the East side to the West side. The space we rented had two large areas connected by a hall with an office space next to it. The back was a large open are with concrete block walls, open ceiling (you could see the roof support structure) and had a gas fired heater in one rear corner. A perfect inside shop area!

We built a long L shaped counter for the prerequiste catalog rack and a number of shelves for stock. We bought an engine analyzer that could be rolled to cars being serviced, later an Allen distributor machine that was capable of spinning one at 5000 rpm or 10,000 engine rpm (you could definitely see point bounce or float on it!). Fred and James Pennington ran the front, Fred would do some shop work, but that was my domain. I did tune-ups, carburetor rebuilds and after purchasing a small bench lathe from Sears, actually made parts.

We were a Holley warehouse and authorised service center. I had, when I first went by Preston Carburetion, a 1964 Falcon with a 260 V8 and three speed column shift and factory AC. My father had purchased it while I was at USMCR boot camp at Parris Island. After I returned he gave me a choice, assume the payments or find something else. After hitting a few dealerships and finding that 19 years old, I would still need a co-signer, I told dad I would assume the payments on the Falcon. Needless to say, it didn't stay stock long. I was a member of Beach Ford Drag Club at the time and we got a discount on parts. They had a nice tri-power Ford Muscle Parts kit that was for a 289, but since I had put a set of Jahns 10.5:1 pistons in and a Lunati hydraulic cam that was very close to the 289 Hi-Po solid lifter one (Late production 260, car build date 27 July 1964) there were a lot of Mustang pieces and the engine had 289 heads from the factory. I also had Hedman Headers and dual exhausts on it.

I had gone to a machine shop in Suffolk VA to discuss some engine work on the 260. the owner showed me the Cobra 289, said the car was for sale and you have heard that part. Even on the Shelby, I couldn't resist things, by then I was a member, and even president of Beach Ford Mustang club. They had a partial 2-4 barrel kit, carbs had been sold, due to the fuel rail missing one support leg. I bought it at a discount as sourcing the carbs was easy (see above regarding Preston) I pulled an R-1848 (465 cfm) from the pile of cores and ordered an R-4548 (also 465 cfm) for stock. I converted the R4548 to manual choke and removed the choke from the R-1848. I ordered two secondary diaphragm covers with the synchronizing nipples and installed them. Put the whole thing together and sat it on a shelf in the waiting/sales area as a conversation piece. One evening, I stayed and installed it. Shelby had Hooker large tube (1 5/8" primaries) as the original Tri-wyes were Swiss cheese and I had Hooker Header mufflers and side outlet exhausts. In the picture I was running straight pipes of the headers to side exit just ahead of the rear wheels. Ear plugs were good for 2 seconds a lap due to the exhaust noise.

[85lebaront2]

At the time I purchased it we had just moved the business I was part of up the street and across from the East side to the West side. The space we rented had two large areas connected by a hall with an office space next to it. The back was a large open are with concrete block walls, open ceiling (you could see the roof support structure) and had a gas fired heater in one rear corner. A perfect inside shop area!

We built a long L shaped counter for the prerequiste catalog rack and a number of shelves for stock. We bought an engine analyzer that could be rolled to cars being serviced, later an Allen distributor machine that was capable of spinning one at 5000 rpm or 10,000 engine rpm (you could definitely see point bounce or float on it!). Fred and James Pennington ran the front, Fred would do some shop work, but that was my domain. I did tune-ups, carburetor rebuilds and after purchasing a small bench lathe from Sears, actually made parts.

We were a Holley warehouse and authorised service center. I had, when I first went by Preston Carburetion, a 1964 Falcon with a 260 V8 and three speed column shift and factory AC. My father had purchased it while I was at USMCR boot camp at Parris Island. After I returned he gave me a choice, assume the payments or find something else. After hitting a few dealerships and finding that 19 years old, I would still need a co-signer, I told dad I would assume the payments on the Falcon. Needless to say, it didn't stay stock long. I was a member of Beach Ford Drag Club at the time and we got a discount on parts. They had a nice tri-power Ford Muscle Parts kit that was for a 289, but since I had put a set of Jahns 10.5:1 pistons in and a Lunati hydraulic cam that was very close to the 289 Hi-Po solid lifter one (Late production 260, car build date 27 July 1964) there were a lot of Mustang pieces and the engine had 289 heads from the factory. I also had Hedman Headers and dual exhausts on it.

I had gone to a machine shop in Suffolk VA to discuss some engine work on the 260. the owner showed me the Cobra 289, said the car was for sale and you have heard that part. Even on the Shelby, I couldn't resist things, by then I was a member, and even president of Beach Ford Mustang club. They had a partial 2-4 barrel kit, carbs had been sold, due to the fuel rail missing one support leg. I bought it at a discount as sourcing the carbs was easy (see above regarding Preston) I pulled an R-1848 (465 cfm) from the pile of cores and ordered an R-4548 (also 465 cfm) for stock. I converted the R4548 to manual choke and removed the choke from the R-1848. I ordered two secondary diaphragm covers with the synchronizing nipples and installed them. Put the whole thing together and sat it on a shelf in the waiting/sales area as a conversation piece. One evening, I stayed and installed it. Shelby had Hooker large tube (1 5/8" primaries) as the original Tri-wyes were Swiss cheese and I had Hooker Header mufflers and side outlet exhausts. In the picture I was running straight pipes of the headers to side exit just ahead of the rear wheels. Ear plugs were good for 2 seconds a lap due to the exhaust noise.

Let me see if I can get this in.

We called it the Bull Island incident, Bull Island being the nickname for Poquoson VA as it is mostly on an island in the marshes West side of Chesapeake Bay.

The Bull Island Incident

This was probably sometime between early 1975 and early 1978. I had a 1966 Shelby GT350 and a 1963 Oldsmobile Jetfire. We had been to an autocross in Norfolk or Virginia Beach and my wife decided to try to beat me by taking a short cut through the industrial park near our house. The Jetfire dropped a valve either because the GM Roto-Hydramatic model 5 failed to upshift, of just plain due to 165,000 miles on the Turbo-Rocket engine. I got it out to my best friend’s place in York County and got a 4 barrel 215 engine from a junkyard to stick in so it could still be driven.

We were working late on it and John heard the local street crowd in Poquoson revving up. He looked at me and said “can I?” I replied, yes, boost pump switch is under the dash center. He left, at this point in time Poquoson had one stoplight where the two main roads Wythe Creek Road and Little Florida Road crossed, there was a 7-11 on the corner where they would meet, then go out onto Magruder Boulevard a nice 4 lane divided highway with very little on either side (this had been a popular place to race from when it was 2 lane road). The intersection with Wythe Creek Road and Magruder was at a curve in Magruder, followed by a little bridge over a creek then it is pretty well straight for over a mile with a stoplight at Big Bethel Road, John’s house is on a parallel street about 2 blocks Northeast of Magruder.

I heard a group of obviously hot cars come out of Poquoson, almost immediately the sound of dual Holleys opening all the way. John said when he got to the 7-11, he went in bought a box of laundry soap and a case of beer, when he came out there was a small crowd around the Shelby and one asked “you wanna run that?” John said, “naw, I never run my street car.” obviously throwing the gauntlet down. As he put it, when he started it he “fired for effect” giving enough throttle that the car torqued somewhat counterclockwise in reaction, then he deliberately backed out vigorously so the Detroit Locker made the tires chirp a bit, as he turned to leave the parking lot there was a mad scramble to the other cars, a total of 5, all with the rear ends jacked up for drag racing. One Road Runner, a Duster 340, a couple of SS396 Chevelles and a Barracuda, probably a 383 or 440.

When he got onto Magruder the “parade” was behind him, there was a car in the right lane before the bridge, the group let him move to the left, at which point, having already turned the boost pump on he proceeded to “waltz” the car over the bridge. Now he had a dilemma, either lose them or have to race and hope he didn’t get my car impounded. He decided the best option was to use the speed, handling and brakes on the Shelby to his advantage. The direct road into his house was in terrible shape so we always went to the next road up and back, turn right and to his house on the next corner.

He wound the Shelby up until he passed his house and at the next crossover did a “bootlegger’s turn”, literally sliding through the crossover, back headed the opposite way, he did it again, and as he did, he could see these “drag racers” trying to negotiate a U-turn as he said hippity hop as their jacked up rear suspension didn’t like sharp turns, and some of them may have had spools. As he made the second U-turn, he killed the lights, motored to the turn, quickly whipped into the side street and killed the engine, he coasted 3 blocks, 2 straight and 1 after a right turn into his driveway. I could hear some tire noise and a whole lot of Cobra 289 noise (side exhausts).

We stood there drinking the beer and listened to these 5 clowns roaring up and down Magruder for a couple of hours. The following Monday, I was in my shop and a young guy came in and was telling me how “some guy with a 427 in an early Mustang just embarrassed him and a bunch of his friends and his brother was coming down from WV this weekend with his Hemi Cuda to teach him a lesson.” I looked at him and said “really, what did the car look like?”, he looked out front and said like that one out by Jefferson Ave. I told him I was honored that the MOPAR guys felt they needed a Hemi to take on a damn 289 and he couldn’t believe until I took him out and open the hood and showed him. He was mumbling something to effect of “2 4 barrels on a 289 ……” the rest wasn’t printable.

Now, fast forward to 1993 or 1994, my son, Matt, who wasn’t born when this took place, but had heard about it several times, is at a friend’s house, a fellow teenager from his school named Will Watson, his dad was known as Doc Watson, and was a big block MOPAR guru. Matt was telling Will this story, and Doc turned around and said, stop, repeat that, so Matt did, Doc turned to Will and told him “I don’t care what it is, if it’s carbureted and his dad worked on it, don’t even think about running him, I was the one that walked into Preston and said that, and it was your uncle who had the Hemi Cuda.

 

[Bronco638]

Let me see if I can get this in.

We called it the Bull Island incident, Bull Island being the nickname for Poquoson VA as it is mostly on an island in the marshes West side of Chesapeake Bay.

The Bull Island Incident

This was probably sometime between early 1975 and early 1978. I had a 1966 Shelby GT350 and a 1963 Oldsmobile Jetfire. We had been to an autocross in Norfolk or Virginia Beach and my wife decided to try to beat me by taking a short cut through the industrial park near our house. The Jetfire dropped a valve either because the GM Roto-Hydramatic model 5 failed to upshift, of just plain due to 165,000 miles on the Turbo-Rocket engine. I got it out to my best friend’s place in York County and got a 4 barrel 215 engine from a junkyard to stick in so it could still be driven.

We were working late on it and John heard the local street crowd in Poquoson revving up. He looked at me and said “can I?” I replied, yes, boost pump switch is under the dash center. He left, at this point in time Poquoson had one stoplight where the two main roads Wythe Creek Road and Little Florida Road crossed, there was a 7-11 on the corner where they would meet, then go out onto Magruder Boulevard a nice 4 lane divided highway with very little on either side (this had been a popular place to race from when it was 2 lane road). The intersection with Wythe Creek Road and Magruder was at a curve in Magruder, followed by a little bridge over a creek then it is pretty well straight for over a mile with a stoplight at Big Bethel Road, John’s house is on a parallel street about 2 blocks Northeast of Magruder.

I heard a group of obviously hot cars come out of Poquoson, almost immediately the sound of dual Holleys opening all the way. John said when he got to the 7-11, he went in bought a box of laundry soap and a case of beer, when he came out there was a small crowd around the Shelby and one asked “you wanna run that?” John said, “naw, I never run my street car.” obviously throwing the gauntlet down. As he put it, when he started it he “fired for effect” giving enough throttle that the car torqued somewhat counterclockwise in reaction, then he deliberately backed out vigorously so the Detroit Locker made the tires chirp a bit, as he turned to leave the parking lot there was a mad scramble to the other cars, a total of 5, all with the rear ends jacked up for drag racing. One Road Runner, a Duster 340, a couple of SS396 Chevelles and a Barracuda, probably a 383 or 440.

When he got onto Magruder the “parade” was behind him, there was a car in the right lane before the bridge, the group let him move to the left, at which point, having already turned the boost pump on he proceeded to “waltz” the car over the bridge. Now he had a dilemma, either lose them or have to race and hope he didn’t get my car impounded. He decided the best option was to use the speed, handling and brakes on the Shelby to his advantage. The direct road into his house was in terrible shape so we always went to the next road up and back, turn right and to his house on the next corner.

He wound the Shelby up until he passed his house and at the next crossover did a “bootlegger’s turn”, literally sliding through the crossover, back headed the opposite way, he did it again, and as he did, he could see these “drag racers” trying to negotiate a U-turn as he said hippity hop as their jacked up rear suspension didn’t like sharp turns, and some of them may have had spools. As he made the second U-turn, he killed the lights, motored to the turn, quickly whipped into the side street and killed the engine, he coasted 3 blocks, 2 straight and 1 after a right turn into his driveway. I could hear some tire noise and a whole lot of Cobra 289 noise (side exhausts).

We stood there drinking the beer and listened to these 5 clowns roaring up and down Magruder for a couple of hours. The following Monday, I was in my shop and a young guy came in and was telling me how “some guy with a 427 in an early Mustang just embarrassed him and a bunch of his friends and his brother was coming down from WV this weekend with his Hemi Cuda to teach him a lesson.” I looked at him and said “really, what did the car look like?”, he looked out front and said like that one out by Jefferson Ave. I told him I was honored that the MOPAR guys felt they needed a Hemi to take on a damn 289 and he couldn’t believe until I took him out and open the hood and showed him. He was mumbling something to effect of “2 4 barrels on a 289 ……” the rest wasn’t printable.

Now, fast forward to 1993 or 1994, my son, Matt, who wasn’t born when this took place, but had heard about it several times, is at a friend’s house, a fellow teenager from his school named Will Watson, his dad was known as Doc Watson, and was a big block MOPAR guru. Matt was telling Will this story, and Doc turned around and said, stop, repeat that, so Matt did, Doc turned to Will and told him “I don’t care what it is, if it’s carbureted and his dad worked on it, don’t even think about running him, I was the one that walked into Preston and said that, and it was your uncle who had the Hemi Cuda.

I like it!

[Bronco638]

LOL - I wish. I've been mostly relegated to Mercury Comets and Ford

Torinos. My "give up an organ" car is the DeTomaso Pantera. If I ever win

the lottery....

Always wanted a Sunbeam Tiger as a kid, until I sat in one as an adult. At

6'-5", it was never meant to be.

Nothing wrong with a Comet or Torino. I remember being in the Mercury dealer in Ft. Wayne, IN and looking at a Pantera. My dad told me they had them stacked up and couldn't give them away.

I always thought a first series Lotus Cortina would be a fun ride. Or, stuffing a Cosworth BDA into a first generation Fiesta....

[85lebaront2]

LOL - I wish. I've been mostly relegated to Mercury Comets and Ford

Torinos. My "give up an organ" car is the DeTomaso Pantera. If I ever win

the lottery....

Always wanted a Sunbeam Tiger as a kid, until I sat in one as an adult. At

6'-5", it was never meant to be.

Nothing wrong with a Comet or Torino. I remember being in the Mercury dealer in Ft. Wayne, IN and looking at a Pantera. My dad told me they had them stacked up and couldn't give them away.

I always thought a first series Lotus Cortina would be a fun ride. Or, stuffing a Cosworth BDA into a first generation Fiesta....

My current project is a different brand, a 1986 Chrysler Lebaron convertible, originally a 2.2L TBI engine. When my 1985 convertible was totaled by a Mercedes ML320 I saved all the good parts, but with lessons learned added improvements, 1989 Lebaron coupe dash, 1989 Lebaron convertible console. 1989 Lebaron front suspension and brakes (brakes were actually the same) 1989 Lebaron rear suspension and brakes (rear disc with internal drum parking brakes).

I am in the process of adapting a 1974 AutoTempII system to it (a bit of interesting engineering to make it work).

Engine is a 1988 service short block a TurboII unit with forged crank, floating wrist pins and nice forged pistons. At 14psi boost, roughly 200 hp and will smoke an early 2000s Mustang GT easily. Turbo is a Garrett unit that was factory for the TurboII engines.

[grumpin]

My current project is a different brand, a 1986 Chrysler Lebaron convertible, originally a 2.2L TBI engine. When my 1985 convertible was totaled by a Mercedes ML320 I saved all the good parts, but with lessons learned added improvements, 1989 Lebaron coupe dash, 1989 Lebaron convertible console. 1989 Lebaron front suspension and brakes (brakes were actually the same) 1989 Lebaron rear suspension and brakes (rear disc with internal drum parking brakes).

I am in the process of adapting a 1974 AutoTempII system to it (a bit of interesting engineering to make it work).

Engine is a 1988 service short block a TurboII unit with forged crank, floating wrist pins and nice forged pistons. At 14psi boost, roughly 200 hp and will smoke an early 2000s Mustang GT easily. Turbo is a Garrett unit that was factory for the TurboII engines.

Cool stories!

Sorry guys, not a Shelby story, but noticed Bill mentioned a Buick 215.

I bought a 1974 Vega with a Buick 215 aluminum V8 in it. And I believe a TH400, could have been a TH350.

That little burger was pretty fast. I was stationed in southern California at the time, around 1981.

We would go out and find like minded people and race a little bit.

One night a Vette thought it was a joke until I kept up with him, we came to a stop and says what did you do to that and I said it was stock, which was technically true as the 215 was stock. He says right, pull into that parking lot, he wanted to see.

We ended up talking for quite awhile, fun times. Man, as a gearhead I loved SoCal, anything you wanted was there, just had to have the money!

And our base had a cool auto shop on it, you could use stalls and special tools they had on hand.

The usual suspects hung out on the weekends and helped each other.

My line chief had a Corvette.

Another friend had a 180 HP turbocharged Corvair, I think they called it a Monza Spyder. That car was fast, I think his dad helped him with that car, his dad raced on the East Coast, Bill you may know him, Dutch Irrgang, The Flying Dutchman.

Another friend had a 67 Cougar with a 289, three on the floor. That almost killed me! I was amazed at how much power we got out of the 289!