One Piece at a Time - Firewood truck project

[viven44]

Gary and Jim,

Its good to know that the rattle I heard in neutral is not unusual, what a relief. Im still skeptical of the rebuild that the transmission has had, but maybe I can put that off until the truck has had some drive time. Is a whine in the input above 2000 crank rpm also common? the whine is not an alarming sound but I don't know if its typical.

Fluid choice for the ZF5 seems to be much discussed with little or no resolution. I've read about folks using Mercon spec fluids, Redline MTL, and the Redline site recommends a product called D4 ATF for the ZF5. Coming from working on the top loaders my knee jerk reaction is to pour it full of MT90 but discussion of true gear oils seems less common for the ZF5. I'd gladly take recommendations and listen to the voice of personal experience. I plan to replace all of the fluids bumper to bumper in the next 100 miles. I know what I plan to use everywhere but the ZF5.

The rear driveshaft is coming down for rebuild before the truck goes out on the road again. The driveshaft has a double Cardan which I'm not sure is factory. The 87 doesn't have one, and the length between the axle yoke and the transfer case output are the same. I'm not sure if its aftermarket or if Ford put it there but I plan to retain it. The U joints in the DC are both 1330s while the U joint at the rear axle input is a 1350. The bolts for the saddles retaining the driveshaft to the rear axle are STUCK. I even tried the hammer blow impact on them without getting them free. Im a little afraid to put the air impact on them because of how bad the problem gets if I break them. I guess Ill try heating the yoke with a propane torch at the bolt holes and then the hammer impact again. After that the air impact is the next option. Oh - one of the saddles on the rear axle yoke is loose, it flops around! and I found one crossmember bolt loose too. I hope that between those issues and the Double Cardan rebuild the driveline shake will be gone when it all goes back together.

The 1345 is shifting smooth now! I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I didn't actually look at the shifter cane and notice that it requires you to pull the cane to the driver side to get out of high range. the 87s 1345 shifts with a straight pull to the rear, it didn't occur to me that the 88s 1345 would require the leftwards pull. doh. But it works! As a bonus the 4x4 and low range lights are working.

Ive experienced the magic of the PMGR starter in the bronco, as soon as this one gives me trouble itll be replaced with a PMGR!

Since my odometer is wrong, my gauges don't work other than fuel, and the cluster has to come out to install a new speedo cable anyhow, I have a few options. the 87 Cluster seems to feature a full suite of working gauges, and its just sitting there in the yard. Otherwise, Id love to have a factory tachometer. Ive seen 87-91 clusters with tachs but I don't know which vehicles they came in. I assume a diesel cluster/tach is not a good donor for a cluster swap.

Vivek44,

I did make the entire drive home in 2 Hi. Thanks man! By the way, all of your 460 related threads have been very helpful to me as I learn about this engine platform. Thanks for doing such great work and documenting it all here for everyone's benefit!

Wow driving back in 2HI says volumes about how good ZF5 is versus the C6 I’m used to… And thanks for your kind feedback. 460 is what I’m trying to specialize/learn more on and one day when I’m old maybe I’ll have warmed up to owning a Godzilla, the 460’s spiritual successor !

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary and Jim,

Its good to know that the rattle I heard in neutral is not unusual, what a relief. Im still skeptical of the rebuild that the transmission has had, but maybe I can put that off until the truck has had some drive time. Is a whine in the input above 2000 crank rpm also common? the whine is not an alarming sound but I don't know if its typical.

Fluid choice for the ZF5 seems to be much discussed with little or no resolution. I've read about folks using Mercon spec fluids, Redline MTL, and the Redline site recommends a product called D4 ATF for the ZF5. Coming from working on the top loaders my knee jerk reaction is to pour it full of MT90 but discussion of true gear oils seems less common for the ZF5. I'd gladly take recommendations and listen to the voice of personal experience. I plan to replace all of the fluids bumper to bumper in the next 100 miles. I know what I plan to use everywhere but the ZF5.

The rear driveshaft is coming down for rebuild before the truck goes out on the road again. The driveshaft has a double Cardan which I'm not sure is factory. The 87 doesn't have one, and the length between the axle yoke and the transfer case output are the same. I'm not sure if its aftermarket or if Ford put it there but I plan to retain it. The U joints in the DC are both 1330s while the U joint at the rear axle input is a 1350. The bolts for the saddles retaining the driveshaft to the rear axle are STUCK. I even tried the hammer blow impact on them without getting them free. Im a little afraid to put the air impact on them because of how bad the problem gets if I break them. I guess Ill try heating the yoke with a propane torch at the bolt holes and then the hammer impact again. After that the air impact is the next option. Oh - one of the saddles on the rear axle yoke is loose, it flops around! and I found one crossmember bolt loose too. I hope that between those issues and the Double Cardan rebuild the driveline shake will be gone when it all goes back together.

The 1345 is shifting smooth now! I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I didn't actually look at the shifter cane and notice that it requires you to pull the cane to the driver side to get out of high range. the 87s 1345 shifts with a straight pull to the rear, it didn't occur to me that the 88s 1345 would require the leftwards pull. doh. But it works! As a bonus the 4x4 and low range lights are working.

Ive experienced the magic of the PMGR starter in the bronco, as soon as this one gives me trouble itll be replaced with a PMGR!

Since my odometer is wrong, my gauges don't work other than fuel, and the cluster has to come out to install a new speedo cable anyhow, I have a few options. the 87 Cluster seems to feature a full suite of working gauges, and its just sitting there in the yard. Otherwise, Id love to have a factory tachometer. Ive seen 87-91 clusters with tachs but I don't know which vehicles they came in. I assume a diesel cluster/tach is not a good donor for a cluster swap.

Vivek44,

I did make the entire drive home in 2 Hi. Thanks man! By the way, all of your 460 related threads have been very helpful to me as I learn about this engine platform. Thanks for doing such great work and documenting it all here for everyone's benefit!

I had the Zf -5 factory manual bookmarked, and then they changed their site and I can't even find the document anymore.

Yes, there is a wide range of fluids that can be used, up to and including MT90.

I would consider your climate.

I certainly wouldn't want 90 in my gearbox if I lived in the upper Midwest, Alaska, Canada etc...

I used Royal Purple Synchromax in my gearbox after 3 flushes of strawberry milkshake (bought it for $100 from a rusted in half plow truck)

It sat 9-10 months a year and obviously had condensation problems.

Funny, my '87 has gate to the side.

Maybe that was just a running change?

On your yoke..... I happen to have a 10.25 short pinion strap yoke "free to a good home" in the marketplace.

It has 3 miles on it, because I was sold a long pinion R&P as fitting '85-92.... 😡

I have no idea, but the long pinion yoke was only $130 and the R&P was already set up, sooooo.

If you want it for the cost of USPS Priority flat rate let me know and I will take the ad down.

Edit:

WRT the '87-91 clusters, I wish I had known before I trashed the two spare tach clusters I had at the barn.

I asked anyone I knew, but if it's gotta go, it's gotta go.

[Gary Lewis]

I had the Zf -5 factory manual bookmarked, and then they changed their site and I can't even find the document anymore.

Yes, there is a wide range of fluids that can be used, up to and including MT90.

I would consider your climate.

I certainly wouldn't want 90 in my gearbox if I lived in the upper Midwest, Alaska, Canada etc...

I used Royal Purple Synchromax in my gearbox after 3 flushes of strawberry milkshake (bought it for $100 from a rusted in half plow truck)

It sat 9-10 months a year and obviously had condensation problems.

Funny, my '87 has gate to the side.

Maybe that was just a running change?

On your yoke..... I happen to have a 10.25 short pinion strap yoke "free to a good home" in the marketplace.

It has 3 miles on it, because I was sold a long pinion R&P as fitting '85-92.... 😡

I have no idea, but the long pinion yoke was only $130 and the R&P was already set up, sooooo.

If you want it for the cost of USPS Priority flat rate let me know and I will take the ad down.

Edit:

WRT the '87-91 clusters, I wish I had known before I trashed the two spare tach clusters I had at the barn.

I asked anyone I knew, but if it's gotta go, it's gotta go.

The ZF troubleshooting guide and service manual for the ZF5 are on our page at Documentation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The ZF troubleshooting guide and service manual for the ZF5 are on our page at Documentation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.

Good to know!

Thanks for saving that.

[viven44]

Wow driving back in 2HI says volumes about how good ZF5 is versus the C6 I’m used to… And thanks for your kind feedback. 460 is what I’m trying to specialize/learn more on and one day when I’m old maybe I’ll have warmed up to owning a Godzilla, the 460’s spiritual successor !

Apologize for my foolish comment here. No surprises on driving 2HI the entire way.

For some crazy reason I applied the mental logic for a 4LO and made those statements and when I looked at my transfer case today before going long distance to make sure I was on the correct setting to freewheel:nabble_head-slap-23_orig: is when I realized my blunder

I get all these mixed up. Tall gears short gears, low gear, high gear, but not sure how I got 2 and 4 mixed up

[StraightSix]

Apologize for my foolish comment here. No surprises on driving 2HI the entire way.

For some crazy reason I applied the mental logic for a 4LO and made those statements and when I looked at my transfer case today before going long distance to make sure I was on the correct setting to freewheel:nabble_head-slap-23_orig: is when I realized my blunder

I get all these mixed up. Tall gears short gears, low gear, high gear, but not sure how I got 2 and 4 mixed up

Vivek, no worries! I figure that was what you meant!

Jim, thanks for the incredibly generous offer on the yoke, I was able to get mine apart without any trouble. Kroil and the air impact did the trick. Plus, I scored a nice cluster for $25 at the local pick and pull. I appreciate the offer though!

I had a productive day yesterday on the truck. I finished rebuilding the rear driveshaft and got it hung back up. I installed a pick and pull gauge cluster from an 87-91 302 manual truck along with a new speedo cable. I now have a working trip odo, speedo (reads about 10% low), working factory tach, and the fuel and volt meters work. The oil and water gauges are MIA, but they didn't work on the old cluster. Perhaps the issue is elsewhere?

Next I shifted focus to the drivers door. The mirror was missing it's glass, the door could only be opened from the outside, the wing window was frozen closed, and someone had installed a big aluminum lock plunger that was too large to go far enough into the door to allow it to lock. I replaced the wing window and mirror with pick and pull parts, then took the latch mechanism out and got it loosened up. The mechanism was frozen with rust, that is what prevented to inside handle from working. Ofcourse, it all went back together with a correct lock button.

Finally, it got an oil change. For now I'm going to try out Joe Gibbs HR30. It's the oild I use for flat tappet protection in the Bronco. I picked up a gallon of redline MTL for the transmission but I haven't put it in yet. It seems that reviews are mixed, but the temptation of a gear oil pulled me in.

Hopefully I'll finish out fluid changes in the next few days, then it'll be time to diagnose the terrible brakes. At that point it might be "road worthy"!

Oh - it will no longer start from the key. If you put the key in run and jump the starter solenoid with a wire (battery pole to start pole), it fires right off. I assume my start wire is not supplying enough voltage to engage the solenoid. I need to find a friend to roll the key so I can measure with a volt meter. More to come on that.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Vivek, no worries! I figure that was what you meant!

Jim, thanks for the incredibly generous offer on the yoke, I was able to get mine apart without any trouble. Kroil and the air impact did the trick. Plus, I scored a nice cluster for $25 at the local pick and pull. I appreciate the offer though!

I had a productive day yesterday on the truck. I finished rebuilding the rear driveshaft and got it hung back up. I installed a pick and pull gauge cluster from an 87-91 302 manual truck along with a new speedo cable. I now have a working trip odo, speedo (reads about 10% low), working factory tach, and the fuel and volt meters work. The oil and water gauges are MIA, but they didn't work on the old cluster. Perhaps the issue is elsewhere?

Next I shifted focus to the drivers door. The mirror was missing it's glass, the door could only be opened from the outside, the wing window was frozen closed, and someone had installed a big aluminum lock plunger that was too large to go far enough into the door to allow it to lock. I replaced the wing window and mirror with pick and pull parts, then took the latch mechanism out and got it loosened up. The mechanism was frozen with rust, that is what prevented to inside handle from working. Ofcourse, it all went back together with a correct lock button.

Finally, it got an oil change. For now I'm going to try out Joe Gibbs HR30. It's the oild I use for flat tappet protection in the Bronco. I picked up a gallon of redline MTL for the transmission but I haven't put it in yet. It seems that reviews are mixed, but the temptation of a gear oil pulled me in.

Hopefully I'll finish out fluid changes in the next few days, then it'll be time to diagnose the terrible brakes. At that point it might be "road worthy"!

Oh - it will no longer start from the key. If you put the key in run and jump the starter solenoid with a wire (battery pole to start pole), it fires right off. I assume my start wire is not supplying enough voltage to engage the solenoid. I need to find a friend to roll the key so I can measure with a volt meter. More to come on that.

I'm all about paying it forward!

With the long spline pinion I've got now, that new yoke is surplus.

This is a great forum and I'd like to be helpful if I can.

Hopefully someone else with an '85-'92 2wd truck can make use of it!

I think your gauge issue has to be the firewall connector or where the engine harness splits out near the ignition module.

On the starter, be sure to check the transmission mode plug and the clutch interlock above your left foot.

If either of these has come unplugged or the clutch safety is out of adjustment, the truck won't crank.

[StraightSix]

I'm all about paying it forward!

With the long spline pinion I've got now, that new yoke is surplus.

This is a great forum and I'd like to be helpful if I can.

Hopefully someone else with an '85-'92 2wd truck can make use of it!

I think your gauge issue has to be the firewall connector or where the engine harness splits out near the ignition module.

On the starter, be sure to check the transmission mode plug and the clutch interlock above your left foot.

If either of these has come unplugged or the clutch safety is out of adjustment, the truck won't crank.

EDIT - I cant seem to get the photo editor to work this morning. Ill try to add photos again later in the day.

Hi Guys! Ive made a bit more modest progress on the truck. Jim was right about the clutch safety switch, an easy fix! Thanks Jim!

I dropped a vacuum gauge on the engine and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was making 19 inhg at hot idle around 600 rpm.

Moving on to brakes – the brakes on this truck are outright scary. The stopping distance from 30 mph is probably 3 full lengths of the truck. This will need to be remedied before the truck goes out on the road. I had been assuming that the idle vacuum was weak and that was the cause of the poor brake performance but with 19inhg at idle, I know that’s probably not the cause. I lifted all four tires one by one yesterday and tested to see in the brakes would lug the engine down in 1st gear. I tested the rear axle in 2 hi, then dropped the rear driveshaft and tested the front axle in 4 hi. It turns out that all 4 corners are doing something – they will all four lug the engine down in 1st or stop the wheels from 20 mph speeds on a dime with the clutch depressed (driver rear wheel makes about half a revolution, all of the others stopped dead). Atleast I know that all four corners are doing something. I don’t have a lot of break diagnostic experience. The pedal is soft, but it doesn’t drop to the floor on its own or anything like that. Part of this repair will certainly be bleeding new brake fluid into the system, but I want to diagnose the failure mode before doing that if I can. Is there a way to isolate parts of the system to narrow it down?

Additionally, the Ebrake cables are loose and hanging so I need to address that.

When I bought the truck the IAC feed was broken off from the main snorkel with a bolt plugging it up. After unplugging it, the engine seems to idle normally. It starts and runs at 900 rpm or so, then steps down to 750ish, then finally to 600 rpm. That whole process takes a few minutes. Just based on that, I assume the IAC is working somewhat normally. Im not sure why the PO elected to plug it off. Perhaps they didn’t understand what it was? The long term solution is to find a replacement for the plastic body that joins the main snorkel lines and this little feed line. Until I stumble across one of those I plan to make an epoxy repair so the engine isn’t getting unfiltered air.

Hopefully today Ill be able to flush the coolant – of course Ill capture all of the original coolant for recycling. What is in the radiator has the consistency of antifreeze, but the color of river water. Before adding the new coolant to the system Ill replace all of the hoses other than the jumper from the pump to the block.