One Piece at a Time - Firewood truck project

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thank you Jim. Coming to a new platform is like drinking from a fire hose, your info and knowledge is extremely helpful. Thanks for helping me get my expectations on fuel economy in line.

I'm looking for a factory fit y pipe for this engine and struggling to find a P/N. I had just assumed walker would make a y pipe. I can fit everything from there back, but making a Y is probably beyond my fabrication limits. Does anyone know off hand if such a y pipe is made, or possibly have a P/N?

Carbed* 460's never had a Y-pipe.

Most EFI 460's didn't get one, just 2 head pipes to a common flange.

The only 460 I can think of was "The Giving Truck", a '95 F-450 that had an O2 sensor just past the Y.

But that was EFI, and the exhaust manifolds ended in a different spot than on a carbureted engine.

I'm sure you could find a way to make it fit, but....

A good muffler shop could bend you a pair of 2 1/2" head pipes and weld them in to a commercially available 3" flange fitting easier than finding those hens teeth.

[salans7]

Thank you all for the ideas, your experience with these vehicles definitely shows.

It sounds like I need to do some research on HEI ignition swaps.

on the factory carburetor - Ive read around on this forum and on four eye pride, it seems like this carb is essentially an annular booster vacuum secondary 600. From what I can tell, the carb is desirable for low rpm truck use, and in conjunction with the EGR and factory timing hopefully it will be able to produce double digit fuel economy unloaded on the highway. I have read that the rebuild kits for these carbs are no longer made with the 2 stage power valve being difficult to obtain. Does anyone know if a standard rebuild kit for a 1850 will supply the correct gaskets and small parts? Is there an option for a replacement 2 stage power valve, or do I need to plan to run a single stage? I recognize that a lot of the value of this carb is in the factory settings, but are there any factory settings/emissions features that are worth defeating during a rebuild? I think I read that the idle mix cannot be adjusted on these.

Ill focus my efforts on factory manifolds. If I have to rerun portions of the exhaust when the EFI heads come along down the road, that can just be a part of the plan. I know that I want to use the factory EFI intake, heads and manifolds. I still have a lot to learn about EMS.

on cab interchange - will 1980-1991 cabs all swap readily? I assume that putting an 87-91 dash in an 80-86 cab and front clip would not work because of issues with harness compatibility. I vastly prefer the looks of the bullnose trucks, and it seems that most of the difference is in the hood and front clip. can a bullnose front clip be installed with a bricknose cab/fire wall?

because I have a good dash and interior for a bricknose, Ill probably focus my efforts on those years for cab donors.

what do you all think about priming the oiling system before running a compression check?

Salans7 - how did you accomplish your front axle swap to 4x4? I need to find your thread!

Thanks!

My replies to your questions are in bold.

Quote Author = StraightSix

Thank you all for the ideas, your experience with these vehicles definitely shows.

On cab interchange - will 1980-1991 cabs all swap readily?

Yes, they bolt up the same, but there are differences in things like the wiper motor, extra holes in the firewall for wiring harnesses and computers, etc.

I assume that putting an 87-91 dash in an 80-86 cab and front clip would not work because of issues with harness compatibility. I vastly prefer the looks of the bullnose trucks, and it seems that most of the difference is in the hood and front clip. can a bullnose front clip be installed with a bricknose cab/fire wall?

The dash is a no-go as they mount differently between 80-86 and 87-91. I modified my 1990 cab to fit the Bullnose dash, and although it wasn't difficult, there is fab work involved. The Bullnose dash mounts are simpler, so I personally wouldn't want to try and fit an 87-91 dash into an 80-86 cab. It could be done, but probably more work than it's worth.

All of the front bullnose parts will fit onto the Bricknose cab without issue, aside from the lower rear fender mount. You'll have to do some cutting and modifying down there to make it work. One thing to watch out for is that I've noticed some of the Bricknose trucks have the frame holes for the Bullnose bumper, and others do not.

because I have a good dash and interior for a bricknose, Ill probably focus my efforts on those years for cab donors.

That's your best option in my experience.

Salans7 - how did you accomplish your front axle swap to 4x4? I need to find your thread!

I used a reverse shackle kit from Sky's Offroad. There is a small amount of welding involved for the frame boxes, but otherwise it's measuring and drilling holes. I have a build thread in the project log section, but I don't remember if I really documented mine that well since Gary was doing an RSK at the same time and he goes into way more detail than I normally would.

Thanks!

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

My replies to your questions are in bold.

Quote Author = StraightSix

Thank you all for the ideas, your experience with these vehicles definitely shows.

On cab interchange - will 1980-1991 cabs all swap readily?

Yes, they bolt up the same, but there are differences in things like the wiper motor, extra holes in the firewall for wiring harnesses and computers, etc.

I assume that putting an 87-91 dash in an 80-86 cab and front clip would not work because of issues with harness compatibility. I vastly prefer the looks of the bullnose trucks, and it seems that most of the difference is in the hood and front clip. can a bullnose front clip be installed with a bricknose cab/fire wall?

The dash is a no-go as they mount differently between 80-86 and 87-91. I modified my 1990 cab to fit the Bullnose dash, and although it wasn't difficult, there is fab work involved. The Bullnose dash mounts are simpler, so I personally wouldn't want to try and fit an 87-91 dash into an 80-86 cab. It could be done, but probably more work than it's worth.

All of the front bullnose parts will fit onto the Bricknose cab without issue, aside from the lower rear fender mount. You'll have to do some cutting and modifying down there to make it work. One thing to watch out for is that I've noticed some of the Bricknose trucks have the frame holes for the Bullnose bumper, and others do not.

because I have a good dash and interior for a bricknose, Ill probably focus my efforts on those years for cab donors.

That's your best option in my experience.

Salans7 - how did you accomplish your front axle swap to 4x4? I need to find your thread!

I used a reverse shackle kit from Sky's Offroad. There is a small amount of welding involved for the frame boxes, but otherwise it's measuring and drilling holes. I have a build thread in the project log section, but I don't remember if I really documented mine that well since Gary was doing an RSK at the same time and he goes into way more detail than I normally would.

Thanks!

Bill Vose has a later interior/dash in his crewcab dually, Darth.

I'm sure he has the details of putting the later steering shaft and heater/AC box from the Giving Truck into an older cab.

So, I'd imagine that the reverse is possible without crazy fabrication, but I don't know all the details.

I could ping him to this thread 💡

[StraightSix]

Bill Vose has a later interior/dash in his crewcab dually, Darth.

I'm sure he has the details of putting the later steering shaft and heater/AC box from the Giving Truck into an older cab.

So, I'd imagine that the reverse is possible without crazy fabrication, but I don't know all the details.

I could ping him to this thread 💡

Hi Guys! Ive found some good parts. I have a replacement ignition/door lock set (aeronose style) in the mail. I snagged an engine bay harness off of EBAY for $100, it runs from the C202 connector under the brake booster and seems to be the main harness for the engine bay. I think the provisions for ignition and some other portions of the harness may be disconnected from this harness by plugs, but Im hopeful that this will make it easy to get headlights, the starter, and other odds and ends running. even if I still have to make some legs of the harness, I think this was a big win.

I have a 4180 rebuild kit (holley 3-1346) in my summit cart. Id like to purchase an appropriate HEI module and coil while Im at it. Im not terribly sharp on electronic ignition, but I know that I need to match the coil to the HEI. Id rather have a canister coil style if possible so I can just slide it into the factory bracket instead of needing to work out how to mount an E coil. I plan to use the original DS2 distributor and factory style wires/plugs. Does anyone have a good grasp on coil selection for HEI? I can find scrap material for a heat sink, and I feel pretty confident about making/modifying the harness Ill need from what I have. I do have some concerns about feeding the coil+ and module+, but that can come later.

My exhaust pipe confusion is making much more sense now. I may just need to bite the bullet and brink the vehicle to a muffler shop, atleast to make a collector. I can handle it after that I think. more to come.

Salans7,

Thank you. I think Ill head your advice and focus in on 87-91 cabs. as I continue to chip away at the truck as is my focus will trend away from driveline donors and toward cab donors. straight (enough) sheet metal is unusual but not unobtainable.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hi Guys! Ive found some good parts. I have a replacement ignition/door lock set (aeronose style) in the mail. I snagged an engine bay harness off of EBAY for $100, it runs from the C202 connector under the brake booster and seems to be the main harness for the engine bay. I think the provisions for ignition and some other portions of the harness may be disconnected from this harness by plugs, but Im hopeful that this will make it easy to get headlights, the starter, and other odds and ends running. even if I still have to make some legs of the harness, I think this was a big win.

I have a 4180 rebuild kit (holley 3-1346) in my summit cart. Id like to purchase an appropriate HEI module and coil while Im at it. Im not terribly sharp on electronic ignition, but I know that I need to match the coil to the HEI. Id rather have a canister coil style if possible so I can just slide it into the factory bracket instead of needing to work out how to mount an E coil. I plan to use the original DS2 distributor and factory style wires/plugs. Does anyone have a good grasp on coil selection for HEI? I can find scrap material for a heat sink, and I feel pretty confident about making/modifying the harness Ill need from what I have. I do have some concerns about feeding the coil+ and module+, but that can come later.

My exhaust pipe confusion is making much more sense now. I may just need to bite the bullet and brink the vehicle to a muffler shop, atleast to make a collector. I can handle it after that I think. more to come.

Salans7,

Thank you. I think Ill head your advice and focus in on 87-91 cabs. as I continue to chip away at the truck as is my focus will trend away from driveline donors and toward cab donors. straight (enough) sheet metal is unusual but not unobtainable.

I'm not certain why you'd want to fabricobble an HEI and heatsink if you now have a plug-n-play harness?

I'm using a TP-40 from NAPA and it's been good for decades.

Sure, it's not the cheapest, but those guys give me jobber pricing and I can confirm that the spark retard while cranking works.

I purchased a NOS Blue Streak coil on eBay in 2011. It has been good and has the 'buttons' to fit the stock horseshoe connector.

If you're going to use a GM module get one for an '80 Toranado and figure out how to use a transistor to ground the 5th pin when the "I" terminal of your starter relay is hot.

That way at least it retards and proper static advance is not fighting the starter.

Also, I've seen people who do this GM module thing use the aluminum shell of the DS-II module as a heatsink.

That's good because you don't have to consider how to splice it in or how to mount it.

[StraightSix]

I'm not certain why you'd want to fabricobble an HEI and heatsink if you now have a plug-n-play harness?

I'm using a TP-40 from NAPA and it's been good for decades.

Sure, it's not the cheapest, but those guys give me jobber pricing and I can confirm that the spark retard while cranking works.

I purchased a NOS Blue Streak coil on eBay in 2011. It has been good and has the 'buttons' to fit the stock horseshoe connector.

If you're going to use a GM module get one for an '80 Toranado and figure out how to use a transistor to ground the 5th pin when the "I" terminal of your starter relay is hot.

That way at least it retards and proper static advance is not fighting the starter.

Also, I've seen people who do this GM module thing use the aluminum shell of the DS-II module as a heatsink.

That's good because you don't have to consider how to splice it in or how to mount it.

Jim, unfortunately my donor harness doesn't seem to include the DS2 harness all the way out to the ICM/Distributor/coil. Years ago in my bronco build thread, you shared photos of your trucks factory DS2 setup. Those photos show a round 8 pin connector, black with red inside. My donor harness has that connector.

Im guessing that in 87, the DS2 ignition harness plugged in through that connector, but in previous years the DS2 plugs were hard wired into the harness. I say this becasue my bronco doesn't have the round 8 pin that my new harness and your photos share.

I say all of that to say that I dont think I actually have a DS2 harness even with the purchase of the ebay harness. I perceive that wiring in an HEI from scratch will be no more difficult, possibly cost less, and I havent really had great luck with DS2 ignition boxes so far. I've had motorcraft, napa, and advanced boxes. I'm glad yours has served so long, it's worth it's weight in gold! My trucks original box is there, but the hooligan cut the wires off close and it looks like the potting has melted out and run down the fender..

Points on the 5 pin and using a DS2 shell noted.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, unfortunately my donor harness doesn't seem to include the DS2 harness all the way out to the ICM/Distributor/coil. Years ago in my bronco build thread, you shared photos of your trucks factory DS2 setup. Those photos show a round 8 pin connector, black with red inside. My donor harness has that connector.

Im guessing that in 87, the DS2 ignition harness plugged in through that connector, but in previous years the DS2 plugs were hard wired into the harness. I say this becasue my bronco doesn't have the round 8 pin that my new harness and your photos share.

I say all of that to say that I dont think I actually have a DS2 harness even with the purchase of the ebay harness. I perceive that wiring in an HEI from scratch will be no more difficult, possibly cost less, and I havent really had great luck with DS2 ignition boxes so far. I've had motorcraft, napa, and advanced boxes. I'm glad yours has served so long, it's worth it's weight in gold! My trucks original box is there, but the hooligan cut the wires off close and it looks like the potting has melted out and run down the fender..

Points on the 5 pin and using a DS2 shell noted.

I'm sorry your harness isn't more complete!

Points noted.

I would definitely try to get the 5-pin spark retard module.

I think at FTE I made a list of generic (rather than $$$ Motorcraft) pigtails, and now we have a source for the distributor connector!

The passenger fender power distribution and charging is pretty straight forward.

If you're starting from nothing you might consider a cheap little fuse & relay center like I have and we are discussing in another thread. (I think I saw it's $28 now on Amazon) but it includes 5 30A relays, a 40A relay and a bag of assorted AGC fuses.

It's nice to take all the lighting load off the fuse panel & dash harness, when the battery is right there.

 

[StraightSix]

I'm sorry your harness isn't more complete!

Points noted.

I would definitely try to get the 5-pin spark retard module.

I think at FTE I made a list of generic (rather than $$$ Motorcraft) pigtails, and now we have a source for the distributor connector!

The passenger fender power distribution and charging is pretty straight forward.

If you're starting from nothing you might consider a cheap little fuse & relay center like I have and we are discussing in another thread. (I think I saw it's $28 now on Amazon) but it includes 5 30A relays, a 40A relay and a bag of assorted AGC fuses.

It's nice to take all the lighting load off the fuse panel & dash harness, when the battery is right there.

Hi Guys! I made modest progress today. I think at this point Im headed towards trying to get the engine/driveline running as is. I'll focus on not making changes that would be difficult or unlikely to transfer in the event of a cab swap.

Parts ordered today include a full copy of the 1987 shop manual, a 4180 carb rebuild kit, hei module, canister style coil with similar resistances to an E coil, radiator hoses, and miscellaneous wiring supplies like relays, a fuse block, and wire. I think once these supplies and the wiring harness from Ebay arrive I'll have everything needed to get the carb, ignition and charging circuit in order as well as a lot of miscellaneous stuff under the hood. TDB on the starter and fuel pump, radiator and exhaust.

I found an old power supply with a finned Al housing. A few minutes with the metal cutting bandsaw and I now have a small selection of heat sinks. I'll use one of the to mount the HEI. All of them are significantly larger than the factory chevy heat sink, I may actually cut one of these in half.

I also made myself a crude steering wheel puller to help with getting the old ignition barrel out. The threaded holes in the steering wheel are 5/16 -24 fine thread. I got matching bolts as well as a 1/2-20 bolt and matching nut. The outside holes for the 5/16 bolts are 1-3/8" apart from eachother. The 1/2 bolt hole is in the middle. I welded the 1/2-20 nut on to the bottom because I don't have a 1/2-20 tap but I do have a mig welder. The steering wheel popped off much easier than I expected.

Am I correct in thinking that if I drill out the retaining pin that is now visible (photo below), that the lock barrel will slide out?

On an unrelated note, the clutch is dead. If you push it in, there is no resistance and then it cams over and springs into the firewall. The master cylinder has no break fluid in it but there is a fine coat of brown goo. Id rather not replace the master/slave cylinder if I can avoid it, I doubt that you can buy service parts as good as the originals and if you can Id rather spend the money on the brakes. I'm hoping there is a way to flush the master/slave cylinders with a light solvent and then refill and bleed with brake fluid. Perhaps Diesel or Kerosene? Is this a bad plan?

[mat in tn]

Hi Guys! I made modest progress today. I think at this point Im headed towards trying to get the engine/driveline running as is. I'll focus on not making changes that would be difficult or unlikely to transfer in the event of a cab swap.

Parts ordered today include a full copy of the 1987 shop manual, a 4180 carb rebuild kit, hei module, canister style coil with similar resistances to an E coil, radiator hoses, and miscellaneous wiring supplies like relays, a fuse block, and wire. I think once these supplies and the wiring harness from Ebay arrive I'll have everything needed to get the carb, ignition and charging circuit in order as well as a lot of miscellaneous stuff under the hood. TDB on the starter and fuel pump, radiator and exhaust.

I found an old power supply with a finned Al housing. A few minutes with the metal cutting bandsaw and I now have a small selection of heat sinks. I'll use one of the to mount the HEI. All of them are significantly larger than the factory chevy heat sink, I may actually cut one of these in half.

I also made myself a crude steering wheel puller to help with getting the old ignition barrel out. The threaded holes in the steering wheel are 5/16 -24 fine thread. I got matching bolts as well as a 1/2-20 bolt and matching nut. The outside holes for the 5/16 bolts are 1-3/8" apart from eachother. The 1/2 bolt hole is in the middle. I welded the 1/2-20 nut on to the bottom because I don't have a 1/2-20 tap but I do have a mig welder. The steering wheel popped off much easier than I expected.

Am I correct in thinking that if I drill out the retaining pin that is now visible (photo below), that the lock barrel will slide out?

On an unrelated note, the clutch is dead. If you push it in, there is no resistance and then it cams over and springs into the firewall. The master cylinder has no break fluid in it but there is a fine coat of brown goo. Id rather not replace the master/slave cylinder if I can avoid it, I doubt that you can buy service parts as good as the originals and if you can Id rather spend the money on the brakes. I'm hoping there is a way to flush the master/slave cylinders with a light solvent and then refill and bleed with brake fluid. Perhaps Diesel or Kerosene? Is this a bad plan?

I'm not clear on what you are referring to. "barrel". however, I have not had to drill out any pins when repairing a column with one exception, total disassembly for full restoration. and that is only the internal rivet holding the bowl to the center shaft.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hi Guys! I made modest progress today. I think at this point Im headed towards trying to get the engine/driveline running as is. I'll focus on not making changes that would be difficult or unlikely to transfer in the event of a cab swap.

Parts ordered today include a full copy of the 1987 shop manual, a 4180 carb rebuild kit, hei module, canister style coil with similar resistances to an E coil, radiator hoses, and miscellaneous wiring supplies like relays, a fuse block, and wire. I think once these supplies and the wiring harness from Ebay arrive I'll have everything needed to get the carb, ignition and charging circuit in order as well as a lot of miscellaneous stuff under the hood. TDB on the starter and fuel pump, radiator and exhaust.

I found an old power supply with a finned Al housing. A few minutes with the metal cutting bandsaw and I now have a small selection of heat sinks. I'll use one of the to mount the HEI. All of them are significantly larger than the factory chevy heat sink, I may actually cut one of these in half.

I also made myself a crude steering wheel puller to help with getting the old ignition barrel out. The threaded holes in the steering wheel are 5/16 -24 fine thread. I got matching bolts as well as a 1/2-20 bolt and matching nut. The outside holes for the 5/16 bolts are 1-3/8" apart from eachother. The 1/2 bolt hole is in the middle. I welded the 1/2-20 nut on to the bottom because I don't have a 1/2-20 tap but I do have a mig welder. The steering wheel popped off much easier than I expected.

Am I correct in thinking that if I drill out the retaining pin that is now visible (photo below), that the lock barrel will slide out?

On an unrelated note, the clutch is dead. If you push it in, there is no resistance and then it cams over and springs into the firewall. The master cylinder has no break fluid in it but there is a fine coat of brown goo. Id rather not replace the master/slave cylinder if I can avoid it, I doubt that you can buy service parts as good as the originals and if you can Id rather spend the money on the brakes. I'm hoping there is a way to flush the master/slave cylinders with a light solvent and then refill and bleed with brake fluid. Perhaps Diesel or Kerosene? Is this a bad plan?

Gary linked the cylinder removal (without key) just the other day.

I think it's in the steering column section.

Are you sure that you have the rubber boot attached to the MC cap?

You are looking at the port in the bottom?

I would look at the pedal linkage and firewall flex/tearing before I got into the hydraulics.

These systems are a bear to bleed, without the now unavailable slave that has an actual bleed nipple....