ArdWrknTrk Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 Matt, yes, that makes sense. I am definitely leaning on this temp reading as just a means to baseline performance. Today while driving, I saw 215F at the radiator input, about 186F going back into the transmission, and my gauge was roughly at 190F.... so if I see 190F at the gauge, I'm definitely closer to 220F at the transmission pan... which I think is too much unfortunately based on watching modern transmissions. I had a 07 F150 and even towing 7000 lbs I never saw the trans fluid get hotter than 215F. I don't know if I don't have adequate cooling or if my torque converter isn't doing a good job.... I do not have a good baseline yet from internet search on what is a good temperature for C6. Gary, yes, I believe it would be fine to put things to the test in the meantime locally. I just went on a 15 mile trip (half-highway/half stop and go) and things seem to be doing better than ever actually. I am having less "horsepower" loss while hot, and "gauge" never went above 190F. Most any instance says to plumb it to the cooler first and then through the radiator.(there's a reason the tranny cooler is on the return side of the rad) The tranny fluid wants to be at a constant temperature, and about the same as engine coolant, so the engine coolant system acts to get it up to temp, but the large volume acts as a buffer (taking away heat, or adding it as needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Most any instance says to plumb it to the cooler first and then through the radiator.(there's a reason the tranny cooler is on the return side of the rad) The tranny fluid wants to be at a constant temperature, and about the same as engine coolant, so the engine coolant system acts to get it up to temp, but the large volume acts as a buffer (taking away heat, or adding it as needed) Right, Jim. The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator. And it helps take some load off the whole cooling system. But the radiator does help by raising the temp of the ATF when the air temp is cold, thereby getting rid of condensation that would otherwise collect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 Right, Jim. The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator. And it helps take some load off the whole cooling system. But the radiator does help by raising the temp of the ATF when the air temp is cold, thereby getting rid of condensation that would otherwise collect. I just followed the same plumbing order as the stock 460/C6 on parts truck/BB 2WD. First to the radiator, then to the Auxiliary cooler. It does make sense though to do the Aux cooler first, thereby reducing the load on the radiator. Well... I had an errand last evening to run. I just got back. It was a 200 mile round trip. I was supposed to take BB 2WD but I had not had time to install the 'heat soak switch' and I did not want to overload the starter in the middle of nowhere... so I took the Bronco on an impulse. The Bronco did really well on the highway. The temp gauge showed ~180F for the first 15 miles... but as the ambient dropped to ~72F or so the temp gauge dropped to ~160F and stayed there pretty much the whole time, when I slowed down in Traffic it got up to ~180F. The transmission did great the whole time... but I can still tell the one on BB 2WD is more stout, as it was built for the 460... I wish I had done the Aux cooler all along. Not sure why I did't do that, considering Ford had the 460/C6 combo paired with an Aux cooler (always?). The super cooling radiator I have was meant for the 400, but I hadn't really considered the additional burden from the 460. The C6 on the Bronco was also meant to be behind the 400, I know the C6 internals are more robust for the 460/diesel... I am planning to turn in the C6 core from my 460 parts truck as the base for the rebuild.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 I just followed the same plumbing order as the stock 460/C6 on parts truck/BB 2WD. First to the radiator, then to the Auxiliary cooler. It does make sense though to do the Aux cooler first, thereby reducing the load on the radiator. Well... I had an errand last evening to run. I just got back. It was a 200 mile round trip. I was supposed to take BB 2WD but I had not had time to install the 'heat soak switch' and I did not want to overload the starter in the middle of nowhere... so I took the Bronco on an impulse. The Bronco did really well on the highway. The temp gauge showed ~180F for the first 15 miles... but as the ambient dropped to ~72F or so the temp gauge dropped to ~160F and stayed there pretty much the whole time, when I slowed down in Traffic it got up to ~180F. The transmission did great the whole time... but I can still tell the one on BB 2WD is more stout, as it was built for the 460... I wish I had done the Aux cooler all along. Not sure why I did't do that, considering Ford had the 460/C6 combo paired with an Aux cooler (always?). The super cooling radiator I have was meant for the 400, but I hadn't really considered the additional burden from the 460. The C6 on the Bronco was also meant to be behind the 400, I know the C6 internals are more robust for the 460/diesel... I am planning to turn in the C6 core from my 460 parts truck as the base for the rebuild.... From what I can interpret when Gary posted the MPC page with all the radiators on it, there's not any bullnose rad unique to the 460. The only ones bigger and more capable are diesel ones that use the drop 'chin' radiator support. But I am pretty sure the fan on a 460 is bigger or has more pitch than the Windsor fans. I can't speak about the 351M/400 engines. (perhaps Gary knows?) The right fan shroud is essential for proper cooling in southern climates. Glad to hear the Bronco is behaving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 From what I can interpret when Gary posted the MPC page with all the radiators on it, there's not any bullnose rad unique to the 460. The only ones bigger and more capable are diesel ones that use the drop 'chin' radiator support. But I am pretty sure the fan on a 460 is bigger or has more pitch than the Windsor fans. I can't speak about the 351M/400 engines. (perhaps Gary knows?) The right fan shroud is essential for proper cooling in southern climates. Glad to hear the Bronco is behaving! You are getting the miles I was talking about on it before coming up on Friday. I think you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 You are getting the miles I was talking about on it before coming up on Friday. I think you'll be fine. Opps. Missed Jim's post. Yes, I do believe the fan on the 460 is more aggressive than that on the 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Right, Jim. The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator. I think the bigger point is that the ATF cooler is in the OUTPUT header tank. The radiator has ALREADY done its job, and has no chance to knock down any additional heat that might come from the transmission heat exchanger before it heads off to the water pump. 💡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 Right, Jim. The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator. I think the bigger point is that the ATF cooler is in the OUTPUT header tank. The radiator has ALREADY done its job, and has no chance to knock down any additional heat that might come from the transmission heat exchanger before it heads off to the water pump. 💡 Everything is also constantly being air-cooled (very-effective) down to Ambient (At least on hwy) and radiatively cooled (not very effective) while not moving .... so the aux cooler will help dissipate some heat... I did observe the coolant temp gauge, it was at 190F the whole time.... so the ATF would be heated up closer to 190F, if the Aux cooler did drop it some before (but not if plumbed the other way around ?). When it comes to ATF, within the operating temp regime, the cooler the better is what I understand for fluid life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 You are getting the miles I was talking about on it before coming up on Friday. I think you'll be fine. Yes, I think so too. Surprisingly I burned less than 1/2 qt oil the whole way. I topped off 1/2 quart when I got there and didn't lose any coming back. Well... my wife's 2024 will be in the dealership as of this morning because the fancy 360 and reverse cameras quit working () . No loaners (of course!). So, she has to use the Bronco so will get more data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Everything is also constantly being air-cooled (very-effective) down to Ambient (At least on hwy) and radiatively cooled (not very effective) while not moving .... so the aux cooler will help dissipate some heat... I did observe the coolant temp gauge, it was at 190F the whole time.... so the ATF would be heated up closer to 190F, if the Aux cooler did drop it some before (but not if plumbed the other way around ?). When it comes to ATF, within the operating temp regime, the cooler the better is what I understand for fluid life. 190° is the thermostat temperature, it better be getting a lot cooler than that if it's going to have any ∆ to carry away heat as it goes past the cylinders to the back of the block and then forward through the heads to the thermostat (and bypass) before entering the radiator. Cooler is not better when the viscosity needs to be constant. The forward pump needs to make constant pressure, the torque converter wants a constant viscosity so the truck beheaves the same at all times, the passages/bands/clutches are engineered to be a certain operating temperature. We had the Ford power train engineer who designed the E4OD (and whose father developed the C4&6) back at FTE. I believe his name is Mark Kovalosky??? Cool dude and very engaged when questions came up. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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