MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT MIGRATION - PLEASE READ

[Gary Lewis]

And while we now have to kick that off manually, which can cause significant delays while we are doing other things, what about sending them an automatic canned response?

We don’t want delay (in general, 2024 people are a bit hurry), so canned answering is OK.

But I think to limit posting in the NMSH is a good process.

This can be the spam “custom control”, which requires a human allowance (and good welcome words) before going further in forum postings.

Is it possible with InVision?

Yes, Jeff, I think it is quite possible. But we'll need to figure out how we want to do it.

In the AdminCP (control panel) I've created a Group Promotion Rule of "New Member to Member" and set it so that if someone earns any one of these badges s/he'll get promoted to Member: First Post; Conversation Starter; Collaborator; Reacting Well; Problem Solver; Well Followed; Dedicated; Week One Done; One Month Later; One Year In; Very Popular; Posting Machine; Great Support; Helpful; Superstar; Great Content.

And in the Achievement Rules part of the AdminCP it is set so that when they post their first comment or reply they get the First Post badge, which should automatically promote them to Member.

But we don't have to use all or any of those badges. We can delete any or all of them and/or we can create our own. And in the Achievement Rules we can set it up so that any badge is manually awarded, or auto & manually, or just auto.

In other words, there is huge flexibility in InVision. So we could make the promotion manual and have one of the moderators do the job when s/he thinks the person has done the intro. Or we could make it automatic after the person makes X posts/replies.

We just need to figure out how we want to do it.

 

[C.Jett]

Yes, Jeff, I think it is quite possible. But we'll need to figure out how we want to do it.

In the AdminCP (control panel) I've created a Group Promotion Rule of "New Member to Member" and set it so that if someone earns any one of these badges s/he'll get promoted to Member: First Post; Conversation Starter; Collaborator; Reacting Well; Problem Solver; Well Followed; Dedicated; Week One Done; One Month Later; One Year In; Very Popular; Posting Machine; Great Support; Helpful; Superstar; Great Content.

And in the Achievement Rules part of the AdminCP it is set so that when they post their first comment or reply they get the First Post badge, which should automatically promote them to Member.

But we don't have to use all or any of those badges. We can delete any or all of them and/or we can create our own. And in the Achievement Rules we can set it up so that any badge is manually awarded, or auto & manually, or just auto.

In other words, there is huge flexibility in InVision. So we could make the promotion manual and have one of the moderators do the job when s/he thinks the person has done the intro. Or we could make it automatic after the person makes X posts/replies.

We just need to figure out how we want to do it.

Gary, how many members do we have? CJ

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, how many members do we have? CJ

2129 users as of right now, CJ. What are you thinking?

[derek]

Derek - I don't see "car club" as an option in any of the documents I've read. Hobby organization is what most say.

Can you find out what the exact wording is from Louisiana?

I don’t think it’s very specific, I think they just want us to jump through a hoop, I’ve heard stories of people just taking a screenshot of a website membership and it being sufficient.

This is the language I’ve found:

o One of the following:

 A notarized affidavit (DPSMV 1911) attesting to the fact that the vehicle has not been and will not be materially altered or modified from the original

manufacturer’s specifications and that such vehicle shall be used primarily for

special occasions such as exhibitions, club activities, parades, or other functions of the public interest, or for necessary testing, maintenance, and storage purposes.

 A photocopy of a card showing applicant's membership in an antique car club

 

[Gary Lewis]

Derek - I don't see "car club" as an option in any of the documents I've read. Hobby organization is what most say.

Can you find out what the exact wording is from Louisiana?

I don’t think it’s very specific, I think they just want us to jump through a hoop, I’ve heard stories of people just taking a screenshot of a website membership and it being sufficient.

This is the language I’ve found:

o One of the following:

 A notarized affidavit (DPSMV 1911) attesting to the fact that the vehicle has not been and will not be materially altered or modified from the original

manufacturer’s specifications and that such vehicle shall be used primarily for

special occasions such as exhibitions, club activities, parades, or other functions of the public interest, or for necessary testing, maintenance, and storage purposes.

 A photocopy of a card showing applicant's membership in an antique car club

On Nabble or InVision you can click on the poster's screen name and get info regarding when s/he joined. So it would be easy to verify that that you are a member. And when we become a non-profit with all of the detail I'm sure that would qualify - assuming that 1980 - 86 is considered "antique".

[ratdude747]

I don't expect y'all to read all of this, but I'm trying to get my head around it and it helps to type it out.

 

This is quite confusing as there are many, many documents about how to do it. But Donorbox has this "Ultimate Guide to Start a 501c7 Social Club Organization" that seems to cut through the fog and says we need to do these steps: (Boy, how I wish we were already on InVision as formatting this post would be so much easier there!)

 

1. Confirm that your organization meets the 501c7 requirements: I believe we do but am still working through some questions just to make sure.

 

Establish a membership base: We have one, and I think it'll work but am checking to make sure.

 

Organize a board of directors: We don't have that but can do.

 

Draft your bylaws and articles of incorporation: Don't have this either but have our guidelines, which are a start. I have our church bylaws to use as an example as they've passed muster.

 

Secure your EIN and bank account: The article says "It can be helpful to keep your social club’s finances separate from your personal ones. For that purpose, you can create a Non-Profit Organization Employer ID Number (EIN) with the IRS in order to set up a business bank account.Even though it’s referred to as an Employer ID Number, you don’t need to employ anyone to get an EIN. This is simply a tool that allows you to set up a business bank account. You’ll need to provide some personal information, including a social security number, for the organization’s main contact."

 

Apply for tax-exempt status by filing IRS Form 1024: I'll do that when we get the other bits sorted.

 

Fill out Form 990 to ensure ongoing compliance: This is an annual thing, which I'll have to do.

 

Set up a way to collect membership dues: Don't worry, we aren't going to have dues. Just contributions, which are not tax exempt.

 

I don’t mean to add to your already full plate here, but would it possible to be a car club? Reason I ask is that in order to use an antique plate in Louisiana, one option is to be a member of a car club. Additionally, I’m not sure, as I’ve never used it, but does anyone know if Patreon would be a fit for ongoing monthly subscriptions?

Off-topic: I have (and still am) calling us a car club for show registration purpouses:https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Do-we-count-as-a-car-club-td133520.html#a133704 Edit- read the rest of the thread. Can't say anybody is a card carrying member, but some of us at least have window stickers! But, of all the groups and organizations I'm affiliated with, the only ones that gives me a card are IEEE and AAA. Likely the law predates the internet (let alone online forums), so who knows. Edit 2- Can't speak for LA, but in IN, "antique" is 25 years and older, qualifying for a far lower tax rate and special plates (or using any IN plate from the vehicle's model year permanently) if one registers as such. But the designation is not a "good for you keeping stuff on the road" reward but rather a "your car is a toy/showpiece/investment and doesn't use public roads much, so you don't need to pay as much tax to maintain them" and have a 2000 mile a year limit tacked on; the special plate is to give some means of enforcing the limit (I guess if they see you drive a classic plated vehicle to work every day, you get a ticket???). Hence why I have standard truck plates...

[C.Jett]

2129 users as of right now, CJ. What are you thinking?

Dues, Gary. Say $5. Yr. EVERYONE should have skin in the game! Issue each member a Bullnose Logo sticker when they pay their dues. It gives a sense of belonging,every so often draw a members name and give them a ball cap with Logo. Or sell them to members at discounted prices. Even make up some pin to put on caps. Have Admin guy to handle shipping. Reward him with a ball cap. Nothing is free in life. If a member has a part left over from a build, accept that as dues and sell on the forum. If the advise and documentation isn’t worth $5. To them,they are riding the wrong horse! My 2 cents. C J

[derek]

Off-topic: I have (and still am) calling us a car club for show registration purpouses:

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Do-we-count-as-a-car-club-td133520.html#a133704

Edit- read the rest of the thread. Can't say anybody is a card carrying member, but some of us at least have window stickers! But, of all the groups and organizations I'm affiliated with, the only ones that gives me a card are IEEE and AAA. Likely the law predates the internet (let alone online forums), so who knows.

Edit 2- Can't speak for LA, but in IN, "antique" is 25 years and older, qualifying for a far lower tax rate and special plates (or using any IN plate from the vehicle's model year permanently) if one registers as such. But the designation is not a "good for you keeping stuff on the road" reward but rather a "your car is a toy/showpiece/investment and doesn't use public roads much, so you don't need to pay as much tax to maintain them" and have a 2000 mile a year limit tacked on; the special plate is to give some means of enforcing the limit (I guess if they see you drive a classic plated vehicle to work every day, you get a ticket???). Hence why I have standard truck plates...

Yeah it’s pretty similar here in Louisiana but our use falls in line with it and it’s a permanent plate so no more renewals.

[Gary Lewis]

Dues, Gary. Say $5. Yr. EVERYONE should have skin in the game! Issue each member a Bullnose Logo sticker when they pay their dues. It gives a sense of belonging,every so often draw a members name and give them a ball cap with Logo. Or sell them to members at discounted prices. Even make up some pin to put on caps. Have Admin guy to handle shipping. Reward him with a ball cap. Nothing is free in life. If a member has a part left over from a build, accept that as dues and sell on the forum. If the advise and documentation isn’t worth $5. To them,they are riding the wrong horse! My 2 cents. C J

Interesting thought, CJ. And with 2000+ members it would only take half of them kicking in $1/year and we'd be there on an annual basis. And if all of them kicked in $1 initially we'd have enough for the migration.

But managing an annual levy looks onerous. On Nabble we don't have a way of doing a mass email to all users. And shipping all of them a sticker would be difficult as we have no physical address for the majority of them. Which is why I'm hoping to keep it to contributions.

However, initially my reading of the rules indicated that we may have problems getting accepted as a 501c7 with just contributions. The IRS publication Social Clubs – Requirements for Exemption – Support By Membership Dues says "A social club must be supported by membership fees, dues, and assessments. A section 501©(7) organization may receive up to 35 percent of its gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside of its membership without losing its tax-exempt status. No more than 15 percent of the amount may be derived from use of the club’s facilities or services by the general public or from other activities not furthering social or recreational purposes for members. If an organization has nonmember income exceeding these limits, all the facts and circumstances will be considered in determining whether the club continues to qualify for exemption."

But what are "membership fees, dues, or assessments"? StackExchange answered the question of Do 501©(7) organizations have to charge dues or fees to members? There's a whole lot of info and it is a good read, but at the bottom it says "Thus, in a 501©(7) organization, a payment of dues, a payment of fees, and a donation, are all identical from a federal income tax perspective. But due and fees are gift tax exempt, while donations are taxable gifts for gift tax purposes (and are not entitled to the estate tax charitable deduction)."

So it looks like we can still go ahead with the plan to have it funded by contributions. But we will have to have a way to show where we are at any point in time toward the goal so people can contribute and help us out. And, we might want to monitor the contributions for that 35% limit if we get contributions from outside the membership. In other words, while the folks on other forums, like FTE & FSB, as well as the millions on Facebook, use our library we probably shouldn't go hat-in-hand to them or we might go over the "outside" limit.

 

[ratdude747]

Interesting thought, CJ. And with 2000+ members it would only take half of them kicking in $1/year and we'd be there on an annual basis. And if all of them kicked in $1 initially we'd have enough for the migration.

But managing an annual levy looks onerous. On Nabble we don't have a way of doing a mass email to all users. And shipping all of them a sticker would be difficult as we have no physical address for the majority of them. Which is why I'm hoping to keep it to contributions.

However, initially my reading of the rules indicated that we may have problems getting accepted as a 501c7 with just contributions. The IRS publication Social Clubs – Requirements for Exemption – Support By Membership Dues says "A social club must be supported by membership fees, dues, and assessments. A section 501©(7) organization may receive up to 35 percent of its gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside of its membership without losing its tax-exempt status. No more than 15 percent of the amount may be derived from use of the club’s facilities or services by the general public or from other activities not furthering social or recreational purposes for members. If an organization has nonmember income exceeding these limits, all the facts and circumstances will be considered in determining whether the club continues to qualify for exemption."

But what are "membership fees, dues, or assessments"? StackExchange answered the question of Do 501©(7) organizations have to charge dues or fees to members? There's a whole lot of info and it is a good read, but at the bottom it says "Thus, in a 501©(7) organization, a payment of dues, a payment of fees, and a donation, are all identical from a federal income tax perspective. But due and fees are gift tax exempt, while donations are taxable gifts for gift tax purposes (and are not entitled to the estate tax charitable deduction)."

So it looks like we can still go ahead with the plan to have it funded by contributions. But we will have to have a way to show where we are at any point in time toward the goal so people can contribute and help us out. And, we might want to monitor the contributions for that 35% limit if we get contributions from outside the membership. In other words, while the folks on other forums, like FTE & FSB, as well as the millions on Facebook, use our library we probably shouldn't go hat-in-hand to them or we might go over the "outside" limit.

With the documentation/information provided, we almost would meet 501c(3) definition as a provider of literary resources.

From what I'm reading 501c(7) group assets have to be exclusive to members (no more than 15% usage by the general public supposedly). Truck show entry would have to be member only. Forum and documentation access would likely also need to be member only. And all contributions would need a paper trail to confirm they were paid by a member (otherwise, the IRS assumes it's a nonmember). Main goal is recreation and members need to be able to directly contact each other. Honestly sounds more like a local gun club/range or conservation/country club than what we do.

Maybe 501c(3) is a better avenue?