mat in tn Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Not at all Jim, I always appreciate your input. Hopefully I just have a set of OEM bolts and I can actually find them! I noticed the odd bolt situation but it I played it safe and sat on my hands to learn from the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Not at all Jim, I always appreciate your input. Hopefully I just have a set of OEM bolts and I can actually find them! Well crap! The plot thickens… it turns out the flywheel on the engine was a DMF with 6 pressure plate bolts. I’ve not seen that before… I dismissed it as a standard T19 flywheel because of that. …and the flywheel to crank bolts are longer than the SMF ones that I went to install. Those bolts were bent and galled in shipping… so it looks like I’m off to the hardware store. I definitely don’t have any OEM like these, and there never was an OEM single mass so they may not exist anyway. I just hope I can find some with a low profile head. The bolts that I had in a zip lock labeled “flywheel” must be for the 300 six 😅. These definitely are not it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Well crap! The plot thickens… it turns out the flywheel on the engine was a DMF with 6 pressure plate bolts. I’ve not seen that before… I dismissed it as a standard T19 flywheel because of that. …and the flywheel to crank bolts are longer than the SMF ones that I went to install. Those bolts were bent and galled in shipping… so it looks like I’m off to the hardware store. I definitely don’t have any OEM like these, and there never was an OEM single mass so they may not exist anyway. I just hope I can find some with a low profile head. The bolts that I had in a zip lock labeled “flywheel” must be for the 300 six 😅. These definitely are not it! ARP for a reason, Jonathan. Don't screw around with something that can bite back, like it already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 ARP for a reason, Jonathan. Don't screw around with something that can bite back, like it already has. Jim, I am going to see what I can find locally. The weather is warming up and the water hauling chore is about to double or triple to keep up with the swamp coolers and watering plants. I am determined to get the big truck and big tank operational this season so I don’t spend my life driving in circles with the little IBC container. I am becoming a little disillusioned about the fasteners since 98% of ZF IDI’s are running aftermarket SMF’s and from what I am hearing from my fellow diesel owners is that these are supplied with ordinary grade 8 fasteners. I don’t mind paying for ARP but I don’t exactly want to wait another week just to get the bolts to hang the flywheel. I need to get the transmission mounted and figure out my drive line. Most likely I will be waiting on a drive shaft modification unless I get insanely lucky. I don’t want little delays to add up into another season without the big truck. 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Jim, I am going to see what I can find locally. The weather is warming up and the water hauling chore is about to double or triple to keep up with the swamp coolers and watering plants. I am determined to get the big truck and big tank operational this season so I don’t spend my life driving in circles with the little IBC container. I am becoming a little disillusioned about the fasteners since 98% of ZF IDI’s are running aftermarket SMF’s and from what I am hearing from my fellow diesel owners is that these are supplied with ordinary grade 8 fasteners. I don’t mind paying for ARP but I don’t exactly want to wait another week just to get the bolts to hang the flywheel. I need to get the transmission mounted and figure out my drive line. Most likely I will be waiting on a drive shaft modification unless I get insanely lucky. I don’t want little delays to add up into another season without the big truck. 😞 The fact that almost EVERY IDI has a Smf means that almost any diesel shop should have them. If not, there are plenty of places -like Amazon- that can deliver overnight. I'm trying to understand your reluctance. You saw what happened before! 💥 I would have had that stuff ordered the absolute moment I pulled the flywheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 The fact that almost EVERY IDI has a Smf means that almost any diesel shop should have them. If not, there are plenty of places -like Amazon- that can deliver overnight. I'm trying to understand your reluctance. You saw what happened before! 💥 I would have had that stuff ordered the absolute moment I pulled the flywheel Unfortunately these bolts are not something you can just order up on Amazon… and IDI’s being 30-41 years old now does not help. I remember one guy saying he purchased ARP fasteners to replace the hardware store bolts that failed, but I have no idea what he bought. All of ARP’s actual low profile flywheel bolts are way too short. They do have a 3/16 16TPI 2.25” chromoly fastener but it is a flange bolt with an extraordinarily tall head (hex and 12 pt. versions seem the same). Maybe they would clear, but I’m not liking it: I finally did find (and ordered) a set of “right” SMF bolts from Russ Repair. They look like the same plain iron oxide grade 8 bolts that come with the flywheels: https://russrepair.com/single-mass-flywheel-bolts/ I just don’t know that these are actually any stronger or better than the coarse 3/16” x 2.25” grade 8 bolts that I bought from Napa (before finding Russ’ offering). Except that Russ does claim his product is American made. My new Timkin clutch release bearing was supposed to be delivered today and didn’t show up either… so it’s not looking good for transmission install anyway 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Unfortunately these bolts are not something you can just order up on Amazon… and IDI’s being 30-41 years old now does not help. I remember one guy saying he purchased ARP fasteners to replace the hardware store bolts that failed, but I have no idea what he bought. All of ARP’s actual low profile flywheel bolts are way too short. They do have a 3/16 16TPI 2.25” chromoly fastener but it is a flange bolt with an extraordinarily tall head (hex and 12 pt. versions seem the same). Maybe they would clear, but I’m not liking it: I finally did find (and ordered) a set of “right” SMF bolts from Russ Repair. They look like the same plain iron oxide grade 8 bolts that come with the flywheels: https://russrepair.com/single-mass-flywheel-bolts/ I just don’t know that these are actually any stronger or better than the coarse 3/16” x 2.25” grade 8 bolts that I bought from Napa (before finding Russ’ offering). Except that Russ does claim his product is American made. My new Timkin clutch release bearing was supposed to be delivered today and didn’t show up either… so it’s not looking good for transmission install anyway 😞 You NEED place bolts (Belleville cup under the low profile castellated head) Read what Carroll Smith has to say about Hewland transaxles... 🤨 You find them on REAL equipment like locomotives, Cat & Deere, Hitachi, Komatsu. But if you're looking for UNC it's going to be vintage American iron. I can't get to my equipment shop over the weekend, but if I find you "The Right Stuff" will you actually go for it? I might find 2.25" and you'll have to grind a bit off the end, but the metallurgy WILL BE RIGHT, and they will be up to the task for indefinite abuse. I'll also look at McMaster-Carr. Maybe they have it? Or Small Parts, which is now Amazon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 You NEED place bolts (Belleville cup under the low profile castellated head) Read what Carroll Smith has to say about Hewland transaxles... 🤨 You find them on REAL equipment like locomotives, Cat & Deere, Hitachi, Komatsu. But if you're looking for UNC it's going to be vintage American iron. I can't get to my equipment shop over the weekend, but if I find you "The Right Stuff" will you actually go for it? I might find 2.25" and you'll have to grind a bit off the end, but the metallurgy WILL BE RIGHT, and they will be up to the task for indefinite abuse. I'll also look at McMaster-Carr. Maybe they have it? Or Small Parts, which is now Amazon.. What length shank do you need, to get through the flywheel and into the counterbore of the flange? (So the thread run out can't become a shear stress riser at the clamping face) https://www.amkproducts.com/product/b-12697/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 What length shank do you need, to get through the flywheel and into the counterbore of the flange? (So the thread run out can't become a shear stress riser at the clamping face) https://www.amkproducts.com/product/b-12697/ Thank you Jim, I measured the flywheel thickness at the hub, and it is 1 3/8” thick. The bolts supplied with the flywheel have a 13/16” unthreaded shoulder and the length of the shank length with threads is 2 1/8”. I did some hunting through my parts and found the bolts that came out of my crew cab T19 flywheel when I disassembled it. They are identical to the bolts that I bought at Napa. They are gold colored grade 8 with a 1 1/8” unthreaded shoulder and a 2 1/4” shank length. They were fitted with two washers, possibly to bring the shank length closer to the original 2 1/8”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Thank you Jim, I measured the flywheel thickness at the hub, and it is 1 3/8” thick. The bolts supplied with the flywheel have a 13/16” unthreaded shoulder and the length of the shank length with threads is 2 1/8”. I did some hunting through my parts and found the bolts that came out of my crew cab T19 flywheel when I disassembled it. They are identical to the bolts that I bought at Napa. They are gold colored grade 8 with a 1 1/8” unthreaded shoulder and a 2 1/4” shank length. They were fitted with two washers, possibly to bring the shank length closer to the original 2 1/8”. Ooof. G-8 and normal (not Belleville) washers as spacers? I hope the very best with this driveline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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