ArdWrknTrk Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Wow! I didn’t know that english was trying to fill the single-plural “you” gap! Thanks to you Jim! I found this interesting article. Thanks again! Jeff, I thought you were Canadian, not French? Aren't you supposed to be apologizing profusely and interjecting "Eh" in every sentence??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Jeff, I thought you were Canadian, not French? Aren't you supposed to be apologizing profusely and interjecting "Eh" in every sentence??? Perhaps Quebecoise is a unique subset of the Canadian experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Is it because of the difference in the reach of 'vous' vs. 'you' ? Not exactly, but you found half of the solution. First, the manner to say. In that case, in french in such situation, we tend to englobe in our wishes the affected person and her or his family. Kind of «we think about you all». Second, the famous “you”. In french, there is one single and one plural form for this pronoun. Single “tu”. Plural “vous”. The action of using these forms is called “tutoyer” and “vouvoyer”. Note that this latter (vous) is also used to mark a respectful distance. The first time you meet someone, or if you don’t know well the person, or for your big boss, as examples. You can go from “you” to “tu” when you feel comfortable with a person, when a friendship relationship (right term?) is building. And you’ll often ask before the switch (can I “tutoyer” you?). I think that in english, since “you” is used for the single and plural forms, you can tag “all” after, in order to insist that everyone is targeted. So, in my formulation to Jim, there were two mistakes: 1- I forgot that “you” can be read as its single form. For me, it was evident that I was including Jim and her sister in my thoughts. Because when I think of Jim, I think of him as a friend, and if I was writing directly to him in french I would use “tu”. 2- I used the wishes formulation as I would in french, in its inclusive form, englobing Jim’s sister and all her family and relatives. But I think that such wishes should target only the affected person in english. So, it’s not only a “phrase” direct translation affair, it’s also a culture one. And this second dimension is never easy to size, always very subtle. Conclusion my friends, do not hesitate to ask me to rephrase if I’m not enough clear, or to correct me if I am clearly wrong! Thank you for the explanation! I did not realize the cultural aspect, of course, but the language aspect was already (mostly) clear to me. I was born in one of the French colonies in India (Pondicherry). Even today, Ville Blanche (built by the French) is well preserved as a local-tourist destination, Ville Noire (yes that's what it is really called!) has undergone significant change with the times. French was the official language there until it was anglicized after Independence. Up until my mom's time French was the educational medium but, in my time, was just a part of the school curriculum, so my French is all but mostly gone as I only learned it to fill the graduation transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Jeff, I thought you were Canadian, not French? Aren't you supposed to be apologizing profusely and interjecting "Eh" in every sentence??? Jim - Yep, you’re right! Quebecois is much more accurate that “French Canadian”. • You have the “French” foreign cousins, living in a far-far country, somewhere over the sea. • You have the French Canadians, this large group speaking french “from coast to coast”, including all “out-of-Quebec” french speaking friends and the: • Quebecois, having french as mother language at around 80%. About the phrasing habits, I would say that (unfortunately imho) our kids tend to use a lot of english words and interjections into their phrases: cool, sick, quick, down, chill, watch, nice, skills, insane, sketch… I find they are more and more speaking some strange «frenglish». But I suppose this is the normal languages evolution… there’s not a lot of people speaking Roman empire’s latin these days. Who knows, maybe in 400-500 years ahead, people in america will speak kind of englispanifrench? Vivek - It is unknown and misunderstood that the first explorers of american territories where largely french people. I heard (to be verified) that they had easier relationship with first nations people, was more easy for them to go here and there. It’s always surprising to go across the USA and find everywhere french names for landmarks, cities, streets, etc. It’s our story, all of us living here, mixing with each others. We all share a very similar way of life, our cultures are really really close. But sometimes there are funny languages misunderstandings. Like when I wrote in an introduction letter to my future boss «it will be a pleasure to meat you soon». Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Jim - Yep, you’re right! Quebecois is much more accurate that “French Canadian”. • You have the “French” foreign cousins, living in a far-far country, somewhere over the sea. • You have the French Canadians, this large group speaking french “from coast to coast”, including all “out-of-Quebec” french speaking friends and the: • Quebecois, having french as mother language at around 80%. About the phrasing habits, I would say that (unfortunately imho) our kids tend to use a lot of english words and interjections into their phrases: cool, sick, quick, down, chill, watch, nice, skills, insane, sketch… I find they are more and more speaking some strange «frenglish». But I suppose this is the normal languages evolution… there’s not a lot of people speaking Roman empire’s latin these days. Who knows, maybe in 400-500 years ahead, people in america will speak kind of englispanifrench? Vivek - It is unknown and misunderstood that the first explorers of american territories where largely french people. I heard (to be verified) that they had easier relationship with first nations people, was more easy for them to go here and there. It’s always surprising to go across the USA and find everywhere french names for landmarks, cities, streets, etc. It’s our story, all of us living here, mixing with each others. We all share a very similar way of life, our cultures are really really close. But sometimes there are funny languages misunderstandings. Like when I wrote in an introduction letter to my future boss «it will be a pleasure to meat you soon». Do not forget your transient cousins, who wandered down the Appalachians and through the bayou to New Orleans.... There are pockets of French influence in odd places like Alabama ,Tennessee and Arkansas, not just the Creole's. Americans seem to forget this -little thing- called the Louisiana Purchase, which was IMHO the best land deal we ever got! Alaska doesn't really compare.. Not that Steward's Folly wasn't a big deal -even before oil was a thing- but the purchase opened up the American West to the white colonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Do not forget your transient cousins, who wandered down the Appalachians and through the bayou to New Orleans.... There are pockets of French influence in odd places like Alabama ,Tennessee and Arkansas, not just the Creole's. Americans seem to forget this -little thing- called the Louisiana Purchase, which was IMHO the best land deal we ever got! Alaska doesn't really compare.. Not that Steward's Folly wasn't a big deal -even before oil was a thing- but the purchase opened up the American West to the white colonists. I fully agree with you, there’s still lot of US friends speaking french. One of their well known ambassador is Zachary Richard, Quebecois love him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I fully agree with you, there’s still lot of US friends speaking french. One of their well known ambassador is Zachary Richard, Quebecois love him! And, I Thank YOU for introducing me to someone who has never been on my radar. The rich Cajun culture is something I know little about. That they continue their vernacular and don't seem endangered by the onslaught of media influencer's in 2024 is astonishing to me (but I am not one of them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifitaintbroke Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Jeff, don't ever think that I'm being critical (except if I'm joking) But even then, I may forget to add an emoji... The same two "you'd" in Spanish. I call it formal and casual. Usted & Su (and these depend on the Spanish you speak, Castillion is very different from Central American and Argentina+ Uruguay are unique, again. BTW, the royal plural in southern 'english' is All y'all. 😉 Why do you have English in quotes there, Jim? Are we hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifitaintbroke Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Jim - Yep, you’re right! Quebecois is much more accurate that “French Canadian”. • You have the “French” foreign cousins, living in a far-far country, somewhere over the sea. • You have the French Canadians, this large group speaking french “from coast to coast”, including all “out-of-Quebec” french speaking friends and the: • Quebecois, having french as mother language at around 80%. About the phrasing habits, I would say that (unfortunately imho) our kids tend to use a lot of english words and interjections into their phrases: cool, sick, quick, down, chill, watch, nice, skills, insane, sketch… I find they are more and more speaking some strange «frenglish». But I suppose this is the normal languages evolution… there’s not a lot of people speaking Roman empire’s latin these days. Who knows, maybe in 400-500 years ahead, people in america will speak kind of englispanifrench? Vivek - It is unknown and misunderstood that the first explorers of american territories where largely french people. I heard (to be verified) that they had easier relationship with first nations people, was more easy for them to go here and there. It’s always surprising to go across the USA and find everywhere french names for landmarks, cities, streets, etc. It’s our story, all of us living here, mixing with each others. We all share a very similar way of life, our cultures are really really close. But sometimes there are funny languages misunderstandings. Like when I wrote in an introduction letter to my future boss «it will be a pleasure to meat you soon». Much of my family on both sides are originally from Quebec, but I'm not sure what part. How they ended up down here, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Why do you have English in quotes there, Jim? Are we hard to understand? Because what we speak here is not English. Hell, I have a hard enough time understanding people from my own nation (usually the deep south) Not a criticism of them or their vernacular, just an observation of how varied "english" is, in a nation divided by distance and culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts