ArdWrknTrk Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 But the proof is in the pudding - does the choke work properly? Right, I'll take off the air filter cover and take a look at a cold start. I was simply wondering about the "theorical" voltage going out of this 3G terminal. "7V" or "14V". If it doesn't work in the dead of winter you can always swap out the choke and add a relay, like 351HO's were wired from the factory. Jim, I am just trying to do the less as I can in winter time, since there's no heating in the barn nor in Big Bro's shelter. And I'm on vacation right now, so I try to do the more I can before going back to job next monday. I still have the 14V choke heater that I swapped between my original and replacement Holley carbs. So, if we conclude that I should install a relay, will I use this 14V part? I would. If you decide that you need the extra complexity you need a choke heater to match, or it will come off much too quickly in winter when you need choke most. Tell us why you can't get your "7V" system adjusted correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 But the proof is in the pudding - does the choke work properly? Right, I'll take off the air filter cover and take a look at a cold start. I was simply wondering about the "theorical" voltage going out of this 3G terminal. "7V" or "14V". If it doesn't work in the dead of winter you can always swap out the choke and add a relay, like 351HO's were wired from the factory. Jim, I am just trying to do the less as I can in winter time, since there's no heating in the barn nor in Big Bro's shelter. And I'm on vacation right now, so I try to do the more I can before going back to job next monday. I still have the 14V choke heater that I swapped between my original and replacement Holley carbs. So, if we conclude that I should install a relay, will I use this 14V part? Ok, I had to go buy some wood at the hardware at my chalet. Took Big Bro, so did a cold start with air filter lid removed. The choke flap did as usual: First full closed, then opened slowly until completely opened. Nothing special, not faster that usual. Seems that the current it receives from the 3G is similar than it was from the 1G. We'll see next winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Ok, I had to go buy some wood at the hardware at my chalet. Took Big Bro, so did a cold start with air filter lid removed. The choke flap did as usual: First full closed, then opened slowly until completely opened. Nothing special, not faster that usual. Seems that the current it receives from the 3G is similar than it was from the 1G. We'll see next winter. Why would the stator current be any different, one to the next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 Why would the stator current be any different, one to the next? I don't know Jim. I would answer "why not?" I don't know if there are significant differences between 1G and 3G other than their performance to produce the same 14V with different amperage. You can tell me the stator of a 3G is half or twice the alternator voltage, because of some internal construction or electronic gizmos, and I'll believe you. These things so evident for you aren't for me. That's why I (and couple of members too, I imagine) need you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 I don't know Jim. I would answer "why not?" I don't know if there are significant differences between 1G and 3G other than their performance to produce the same 14V with different amperage. You can tell me the stator of a 3G is half or twice the alternator voltage, because of some internal construction or electronic gizmos, and I'll believe you. These things so evident for you aren't for me. That's why I (and couple of members too, I imagine) need you! Let me see if I can get this one correct The choke is the load (or more accurately the coil-deal mechanism that moves it)... so it decides how much power (current * voltage) it needs .... as long as the stator current can supply that much then it is happy... so far I think I am correct ... but not sure about the next part... when you have an aftermarket choke, it wants a lot more power which can be only met with Battery voltage (12.5 - 14V).. apparently the ~6-7V stator output cannot output enough current to make up the difference ... basically current needs to double to make up for the voltage drop.. So am I correct in assuming the status output current is limited internally ?? Regardless, I learned something about 3G conversion that the stator/choke behavior is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Let me see if I can get this one correct The choke is the load (or more accurately the coil-deal mechanism that moves it)... so it decides how much power (current * voltage) it needs .... as long as the stator current can supply that much then it is happy... so far I think I am correct ... but not sure about the next part... when you have an aftermarket choke, it wants a lot more power which can be only met with Battery voltage (12.5 - 14V).. apparently the ~6-7V stator output cannot output enough current to make up the difference ... basically current needs to double to make up for the voltage drop.. So am I correct in assuming the status output current is limited internally ?? Regardless, I learned something about 3G conversion that the stator/choke behavior is the same I get your point V. You're thinking "pull" (resistive load sinking current) and I'm thinking "push" as in there's no more effort in turning the key on a semi than there is on a moped. But you want the bimetallic coil on a (nominally) "12V" choke to come off at the same amount of time as a "7V" stator driven choke coil. It would be interesting to see the numbers on the choke for a 351 HO, and all the rest of the 4180's like my 460 or a 1985 5.0 HO Mustang. I don't have one that I can ohm out, or look to see if the ID # is the same, but maybe you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 I get your point V. You're thinking "pull" (resistive load sinking current) and I'm thinking "push" as in there's no more effort in turning the key on a semi than there is on a moped. But you want the bimetallic coil on a (nominally) "12V" choke to come off at the same amount of time as a "7V" stator driven choke coil. It would be interesting to see the numbers on the choke for a 351 HO, and all the rest of the 4180's like my 460 or a 1985 5.0 HO Mustang. I don't have one that I can ohm out, or look to see if the ID # is the same, but maybe you do? I have a 351W HO factory carb, about 2 factory carbs from 460s… has assumed all these are stator driven 7V chokes… but maybe the 351W HO is relay driven and uses 12V?? (Which is news to me) I can measure the internal resistance on these…. Actually I need to rephrase. If you have a 12V choke and try to use it with 7V, less current would flow (I=V/R) and thus the slower actuation (isn’t that what happens?)…. So I don’t think there is a “current limit problem” in the stator… choke bimetallic coil’s internal resistance will draw the current based on voltage available … more volts = more current Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 I have a 351W HO factory carb, about 2 factory carbs from 460s… has assumed all these are stator driven 7V chokes… but maybe the 351W HO is relay driven and uses 12V?? (Which is news to me) I can measure the internal resistance on these…. Actually I need to rephrase. If you have a 12V choke and try to use it with 7V, less current would flow (I=V/R) and thus the slower actuation (isn’t that what happens?)…. So I don’t think there is a “current limit problem” in the stator… choke bimetallic coil’s internal resistance will draw the current based on voltage available … more volts = more current Yes, and yes. The HO choke should be 12V, and they haven't repealed Ohm's law so more voltage means more current and, therefore, more heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Yes, and yes. The HO choke should be 12V, and they haven't repealed Ohm's law so more voltage means more current and, therefore, more heat. And then there is the hot air “stove” choke that work in combination with the 7V…. I have seen that combo just once myself… do those actually exist or was I dealing with a swap aberration?? Now that is an attempt to mess with ohms law (sort of kidding ;))… hot air will increase the internal resistance of that coil but also elongates the coil… it will reduce the load on the 7V system in more than 1 way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 And then there is the hot air “stove” choke that work in combination with the 7V…. I have seen that combo just once myself… do those actually exist or was I dealing with a swap aberration?? Now that is an attempt to mess with ohms law (sort of kidding ;))… hot air will increase the internal resistance of that coil but also elongates the coil… it will reduce the load on the 7V system in more than 1 way It doesn’t work quite like that, as explained here: https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/chokes.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts