It is time to talk hydraulic clutch systems.

[Gary Lewis]

Got the prebled system, looks like the same master and slave, except the bottom hole is slightly lower (less than a half inch I would guess, and the backing plate is plastic instead of metal.

I may find some metal to cut up just to reinforce it a bit (the newer trucks seem to have a metal bracket with studs that go thru off the pedal bracket).

Gonna try to swap it either later tonight or tomorrow morning and see what we got.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I have the small triangular reinforcement plate in my truck.

It ties the firewall to the trans tunnel and the pinch weld above.

[Haystack]

I have the small triangular reinforcement plate in my truck.

It ties the firewall to the trans tunnel and the pinch weld above.

I will probably be adding the one from Jeff's bronco graveyard if I can actually get this stupid thing going.

I ended up trading out the prebled kit for another one. It just didn't sit right with me that the entire master clutch cylinder was plastic.

I did swap in the new setup. You do have to drill two holes in the firewall, I also had to clearance the edge of the master clutch cylinder mount slightly, otherwise I would have had to enlarge the large center hole, or ground down the firewall sheet metal lip.

Bottom hole is over an inch lower, top hole is about 1/4 higher. I ended up just enlarging the top hole with a step drill bit and the bottom hole I did redrill, but it was slightly off..the holes are straight up and down.

The slave cylinder looks exactly the same, but the clip was very tight, it dug into the metal on the bellhousing installing it, had to use a small hammer to get it to fully "seat" but feels solid.

Pedal still does not return all the way, but, it has good feel through the travel. I can deal with that later, worse case I'll find a small bungy chord or something to pull it back up if it's an issue.

When I tried to start it, battery was too low, just solinoid clicks. I placed a charger on it over night, going to check on it in the morning. I really should have moved the tire chocks and released the brake just to see if it was working, but I have two other cars pulled right up to the bumper, and would have to move both of them.

Should know in the morning in a few hours if the prebled setup is really the fix or not.

[Gary Lewis]

I will probably be adding the one from Jeff's bronco graveyard if I can actually get this stupid thing going.

I ended up trading out the prebled kit for another one. It just didn't sit right with me that the entire master clutch cylinder was plastic.

I did swap in the new setup. You do have to drill two holes in the firewall, I also had to clearance the edge of the master clutch cylinder mount slightly, otherwise I would have had to enlarge the large center hole, or ground down the firewall sheet metal lip.

Bottom hole is over an inch lower, top hole is about 1/4 higher. I ended up just enlarging the top hole with a step drill bit and the bottom hole I did redrill, but it was slightly off..the holes are straight up and down.

The slave cylinder looks exactly the same, but the clip was very tight, it dug into the metal on the bellhousing installing it, had to use a small hammer to get it to fully "seat" but feels solid.

Pedal still does not return all the way, but, it has good feel through the travel. I can deal with that later, worse case I'll find a small bungy chord or something to pull it back up if it's an issue.

When I tried to start it, battery was too low, just solinoid clicks. I placed a charger on it over night, going to check on it in the morning. I really should have moved the tire chocks and released the brake just to see if it was working, but I have two other cars pulled right up to the bumper, and would have to move both of them.

Should know in the morning in a few hours if the prebled setup is really the fix or not.

This has been a very long saga. Sure hope it starts and that the clutch works well.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I will probably be adding the one from Jeff's bronco graveyard if I can actually get this stupid thing going.

Pedal still does not return all the way, but, it has good feel through the travel. I can deal with that later, worse case I'll find a small bungy chord or something to pull it back up if it's an issue.

Should know in the morning in a few hours if the prebled setup is really the fix or not.

"The Big One" (for severe, rather than 'moderate' damage) is a PITA, what with having to remove the steering column, the pedal box and dash to get at all the bolts.

It's troubling me that the pedal won't snap back up into the rubber stop.

We're all pulling for you, that's for sure!

[Haystack]

I will probably be adding the one from Jeff's bronco graveyard if I can actually get this stupid thing going.

Pedal still does not return all the way, but, it has good feel through the travel. I can deal with that later, worse case I'll find a small bungy chord or something to pull it back up if it's an issue.

Should know in the morning in a few hours if the prebled setup is really the fix or not.

"The Big One" (for severe, rather than 'moderate' damage) is a PITA, what with having to remove the steering column, the pedal box and dash to get at all the bolts.

It's troubling me that the pedal won't snap back up into the rubber stop.

We're all pulling for you, that's for sure!

Well, so much for that.

System had fluid on it, so I can only assume that it was still "prebled".

No resistance on the clutch pedal at all, feels like crap and doesn't even pretend try to get it into gear.

Bad prebled system? Or is something fundamentally wrong on all ends of every part of this stupid truck?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, so much for that.

System had fluid on it, so I can only assume that it was still "prebled".

No resistance on the clutch pedal at all, feels like crap and doesn't even pretend try to get it into gear.

Bad prebled system? Or is something fundamentally wrong on all ends of every part of this stupid truck?

From the beginning it seemed like you were doing everything right.

You're sure the master isn't moving with the firewall?

I've seen where people have a damn 2x4 propped from the master to the radiator support, so they have pedal enough to get home.

[Haystack]

From the beginning it seemed like you were doing everything right.

You're sure the master isn't moving with the firewall?

I've seen where people have a damn 2x4 propped from the master to the radiator support, so they have pedal enough to get home.

I'd mount some angle iron acrossed the firewall if I thought it might be a problem.

Here's where I am at, the PTO is what really gets in the way. It's mounted right into the trans, that blocks the bellhousing bolts, and since the pto shares fluid, I have to drain it every single time.

I feel like there just has to be something I am missing, and I think it has to be internal to the trans. My father was the one really pushing me to take the truck into a shop. After master muffler pried out the pedal spring, I didn't want to take it back in to another shop.

I personally hate having vehicles worked on, and have had many issues in the past. For the most part, the only thing I will let a shop touch is tires, and I usually stand outside and watch them the whole time.

When we still couldn't get it bled, my dad convinced me that it wouldn't be bad if we had a lift and a heated shop. What sucks, I have all the garage and driveway space in the world, but the truck just doesn't fit, it's almost 13' high. Even if we could squeeze it in, we really can't jack it up unless we had like a 15' or higher ceilings.

I finally relented after about a month of unsuccessfully bleeding it. I was able to jam it in gear, with a slight grind or clunk, and it would idle in gear, but you could tell it wasn't fully releasing.

When the shop has it, they jammed the clutch fork in front of the release bearing, hit the clutch while it was running and broke the clutch fork and bent up the pressure plate teeth.

They then called me and said they could even diagnose it, but blames the "already broken" clutch fork, which they couldn't source a replacement.

I was working out of town still, and my father felt responsible and pulled the trans and replaced the clutch and pressure plate, and that's when we couldn't find a clutch fork anywhere.

Since then, I have not been able to get the clutch to feel like it's doing anything at all. We did end up buying another trans, specifically for the clutch fork, but I figured it would be good extra parts. I sort of feel like if the clutch fork was broken, and the pressure plate was too, it must have bent or broken something else. But I was not able to look at it at all while it was apart.

The bellhousing bolts are basically impossible to get to with the cross member in, and with the way the PTO is mounted, it is much easier and quicker to pull the PTO, as the cross member can't come out with the PTO in place.

Now that I have the other trans, I have an extra PTO cover plate. I am just going to block it off, tie the to up somewhere else on the frame rails (it has hydraulic hoses and a cable running to it, I'd rather not remove those parts of I can help it). Then I can remove the bottom passenger side bell housing bolt, not problem, as well as the bellhousing and cross member, and as a bonus, I don't have to waste gear oil every time I drain it.

This will take dropping the trans from a 2-3 hour job at least, to more like a 10 or 15 minute job. I will also have the trans divorced from the PTO, so it does not have to stay in the trans tunnel. I can pull the current trans, and the "extra" t-19 and just put them side by side and see what wrong.

Maybe the throw out bearing won't side against the clutch fork right, maybe the pressure plate isn't right, heck, I'd like to think better of my dad, but maybe the clutch disc itself is backwards or even the wrong part.

One thing I did do that I wish I didn't, the first clutch I took out was an 11" clutch. I didn't know that I told I took it out, and the one I ordered was a 12" clutch. It was listed as a diesel only part, but, it was significantly cheaper and was in stock while the 11" clutch was not. I assumed that they are interchangeable, as the 12" also list the "heavy duty cab and chassis" which is what I believe this setup to be.

I am wondering if there is a difference, however, that is the setup I drove 1000 miles to Oregon on, and I did drive through heavy rush hour traffic (think 25mph school zones in the morning commute) and it worked fine there as well.

I really do believe that a seal or something in either the master or slave failed, probably old rubber wire out or split after being used and abused for the first time in almost 20 years.

Right before the pedal died on me, I backed into a muddy field next to a steep hill. A little drainage ditch had flooded, but felt solid next to the pole. I had no issues getting to the pole, but it was slightly down hill.

When I finished the job, I could barely get the truck to move forwards without spinning the tires, and about 20 feet uphill was just a muddy swamp.

It took me 2-3 hard runs at that swampy bit to get through, and then I had a good 20° incline up a muddy hill. I really shouldn't have pulled the truck in there, but I was feeling a bit lazy and it was a tall big old pole, and it was covered in trees. It is much easier to cut trees from a bucket then by hand while climbing.

That was the last pole of the day, and one the way back to the hotel was when the clutch started feeling crappy and degraded as I drove back. When I went to start it up the next morning, it just went to the floor with little resistance. It felt like I could 'pump it up" a bit, but I couldn't even get it into gear.

I could smell a bit of a clutch, so I know I was abusing it, but I done know what else could have been done to it unless it's just coincidence that it went bad right after.

Either way, dropping the PTO makes it a simple 2wd setup, just gotta pull the drive line and cross member. 4 bolts on the bellhousing to trans, than I could actually slide the whole trans out and get a good look at everything.

I am hoping that I find something obviously wrong when I drop it. I just don't see how me bleeding the clutch 1000 times made it worse than when I started. The fact that the "prebled" setup felt the same makes me thing it has to be something else wrong.

Maybe the input shaft sleeve is damaged, heck, maybe it's even the wrong clutch disc.

I am just done screwing around. If guys can make a hydraulic setup from a Corvette work in a 32 Ford in a day, I should be able to figure out a completely stock setup. I am just missing something.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'd mount some angle iron acrossed the firewall if I thought it might be a problem.

Here's where I am at, the PTO is what really gets in the way. It's mounted right into the trans, that blocks the bellhousing bolts, and since the pto shares fluid, I have to drain it every single time.

I feel like there just has to be something I am missing, and I think it has to be internal to the trans. My father was the one really pushing me to take the truck into a shop. After master muffler pried out the pedal spring, I didn't want to take it back in to another shop.

I personally hate having vehicles worked on, and have had many issues in the past. For the most part, the only thing I will let a shop touch is tires, and I usually stand outside and watch them the whole time.

When we still couldn't get it bled, my dad convinced me that it wouldn't be bad if we had a lift and a heated shop. What sucks, I have all the garage and driveway space in the world, but the truck just doesn't fit, it's almost 13' high. Even if we could squeeze it in, we really can't jack it up unless we had like a 15' or higher ceilings.

I finally relented after about a month of unsuccessfully bleeding it. I was able to jam it in gear, with a slight grind or clunk, and it would idle in gear, but you could tell it wasn't fully releasing.

When the shop has it, they jammed the clutch fork in front of the release bearing, hit the clutch while it was running and broke the clutch fork and bent up the pressure plate teeth.

They then called me and said they could even diagnose it, but blames the "already broken" clutch fork, which they couldn't source a replacement.

I was working out of town still, and my father felt responsible and pulled the trans and replaced the clutch and pressure plate, and that's when we couldn't find a clutch fork anywhere.

Since then, I have not been able to get the clutch to feel like it's doing anything at all. We did end up buying another trans, specifically for the clutch fork, but I figured it would be good extra parts. I sort of feel like if the clutch fork was broken, and the pressure plate was too, it must have bent or broken something else. But I was not able to look at it at all while it was apart.

The bellhousing bolts are basically impossible to get to with the cross member in, and with the way the PTO is mounted, it is much easier and quicker to pull the PTO, as the cross member can't come out with the PTO in place.

Now that I have the other trans, I have an extra PTO cover plate. I am just going to block it off, tie the to up somewhere else on the frame rails (it has hydraulic hoses and a cable running to it, I'd rather not remove those parts of I can help it). Then I can remove the bottom passenger side bell housing bolt, not problem, as well as the bellhousing and cross member, and as a bonus, I don't have to waste gear oil every time I drain it.

This will take dropping the trans from a 2-3 hour job at least, to more like a 10 or 15 minute job. I will also have the trans divorced from the PTO, so it does not have to stay in the trans tunnel. I can pull the current trans, and the "extra" t-19 and just put them side by side and see what wrong.

Maybe the throw out bearing won't side against the clutch fork right, maybe the pressure plate isn't right, heck, I'd like to think better of my dad, but maybe the clutch disc itself is backwards or even the wrong part.

One thing I did do that I wish I didn't, the first clutch I took out was an 11" clutch. I didn't know that I told I took it out, and the one I ordered was a 12" clutch. It was listed as a diesel only part, but, it was significantly cheaper and was in stock while the 11" clutch was not. I assumed that they are interchangeable, as the 12" also list the "heavy duty cab and chassis" which is what I believe this setup to be.

I am wondering if there is a difference, however, that is the setup I drove 1000 miles to Oregon on, and I did drive through heavy rush hour traffic (think 25mph school zones in the morning commute) and it worked fine there as well.

I really do believe that a seal or something in either the master or slave failed, probably old rubber wire out or split after being used and abused for the first time in almost 20 years.

Right before the pedal died on me, I backed into a muddy field next to a steep hill. A little drainage ditch had flooded, but felt solid next to the pole. I had no issues getting to the pole, but it was slightly down hill.

When I finished the job, I could barely get the truck to move forwards without spinning the tires, and about 20 feet uphill was just a muddy swamp.

It took me 2-3 hard runs at that swampy bit to get through, and then I had a good 20° incline up a muddy hill. I really shouldn't have pulled the truck in there, but I was feeling a bit lazy and it was a tall big old pole, and it was covered in trees. It is much easier to cut trees from a bucket then by hand while climbing.

That was the last pole of the day, and one the way back to the hotel was when the clutch started feeling crappy and degraded as I drove back. When I went to start it up the next morning, it just went to the floor with little resistance. It felt like I could 'pump it up" a bit, but I couldn't even get it into gear.

I could smell a bit of a clutch, so I know I was abusing it, but I done know what else could have been done to it unless it's just coincidence that it went bad right after.

Either way, dropping the PTO makes it a simple 2wd setup, just gotta pull the drive line and cross member. 4 bolts on the bellhousing to trans, than I could actually slide the whole trans out and get a good look at everything.

I am hoping that I find something obviously wrong when I drop it. I just don't see how me bleeding the clutch 1000 times made it worse than when I started. The fact that the "prebled" setup felt the same makes me thing it has to be something else wrong.

Maybe the input shaft sleeve is damaged, heck, maybe it's even the wrong clutch disc.

I am just done screwing around. If guys can make a hydraulic setup from a Corvette work in a 32 Ford in a day, I should be able to figure out a completely stock setup. I am just missing something.

Diesel only part,... like only fits a super thick DMF?

Yeah I had a shop change my clutch last year, because my ring gear was completely shot and I had nowhere but mud to lay in to do it.

I bought them all new Luk parts and factory Ford place bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate.

They charged $1300 and 🤬it up so bad I had to bring it back twice, and it still isn't right.

NEVER AGAIN!!!

I'm glad I have a really good tire shop that I can trust. (after having a local chain under inflate my new tires and bust a stud off, but put the wheel cover back on).

"Oh, it happened AFTER I left your shop? Please explain HTH it isn't rattling around inside the hubcap then?!?!" 🤷‍♂️

"30 psi in my 10 ply E-rated 85 series tires??? Even an illiterate can usually match numbers on a gauge to the numbers on the door jamb.". 😖

My lifetime alignment guy suddenly retired last year.

I'm not even going to attempt that with this flakey TTB suspension.

[Haystack]

Diesel only part,... like only fits a super thick DMF?

Yeah I had a shop change my clutch last year, because my ring gear was completely shot and I had nowhere but mud to lay in to do it.

I bought them all new Luk parts and factory Ford place bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate.

They charged $1300 and 🤬it up so bad I had to bring it back twice, and it still isn't right.

NEVER AGAIN!!!

I'm glad I have a really good tire shop that I can trust. (after having a local chain under inflate my new tires and bust a stud off, but put the wheel cover back on).

"Oh, it happened AFTER I left your shop? Please explain HTH it isn't rattling around inside the hubcap then?!?!" 🤷‍♂️

"30 psi in my 10 ply E-rated 85 series tires??? Even an illiterate can usually match numbers on a gauge to the numbers on the door jamb.". 😖

My lifetime alignment guy suddenly retired last year.

I'm not even going to attempt that with this flakey TTB suspension.

The diesels use the same teams and bellhousing, it seems they make up the extra gap from the adapter plastic on the flywheel area.

There is a "12" heavy duty option" listed in rock auto. If you compare the part numbers, all of the clutch kits are comparable except a few of the the "heavy duty racing" and "high performance" clutches.

When I went to AutoZone (clutch died on me originally the day before I was supposed to leave for Oregon) they did not list a 12" clutch at all, except for the diesel, and they did not have an 11" clutch kit available locally, special order only. I wanted to leave asap, so I grabbed the "Diesel" listed 12" clutch. It is was the same part number rock auto shows and the same brand, luk, as the "heavy duty" 450 clutch kit, which is why I got it.

The pressure plate seemed to be the same size and used the same bolt holes as what was already in there, and the clutch disc instead looked identical, just 1/2" larger diameter all around.