ArdWrknTrk Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 By the way, I watched this video where the guy installs a straight-up timing set but can't get the dots to line up. What would cause this ? As far as what I was thinking, the job required getting the old timing set in TDC, where the Keyway and cam dot were not lined perfectly up, but position it such that the cam dot was where it needed to be... the crank keyway would be offset a bit clockwise in that situation.. before installing the new set, all I would need to do is rotate the crank keyway back to where both crank and cam were straight up. Looks like the guy didn't get the crank keyway back where it needed to be. You can't fix stupid.... It was painful to watch the 15 seconds I did. He has the cam gear off one tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 You can't fix stupid.... It was painful to watch the 15 seconds I did. He has the cam gear off one tooth. Lol. Yes I don't understand how he got the gears on and didn't realize. Basically no point installing that set as it was still retarded like the original set. All i'm planning to do is get the cam and crank lined up straight up (which won't be the case at TDC in the old set). I will rotate the crank back as needed to get them to line up, then install the new timing gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Lol. Yes I don't understand how he got the gears on and didn't realize. Basically no point installing that set as it was still retarded like the original set. All i'm planning to do is get the cam and crank lined up straight up (which won't be the case at TDC in the old set). I will rotate the crank back as needed to get them to line up, then install the new timing gears. No, that's a straight up set. It's double roller with a single keyway. (not Hy-Vo, no bonded nylon..) If it had multiple keyways you could install it advanced or retarded (there are usually a mark next to each of the keyways, ∆ is O IIRC) He needed to pull it back off and move the cam gear over one tooth on the chain. He would have been fine. (IDK what eventually happens in the video) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 No, that's a straight up set. It's double roller with a single keyway. (not Hy-Vo, no bonded nylon..) If it had multiple keyways you could install it advanced or retarded (there are usually a mark next to each of the keyways, ∆ is O IIRC) He needed to pull it back off and move the cam gear over one tooth on the chain. He would have been fine. (IDK what eventually happens in the video) Wouldn’t it be easier to bring the cam where it needed to be and then move the crank gear? I have always done that even on DOHC as the crank is easier to move. I’ve always worried about valve train spring tensions and so forth making cam gear movement erratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Wouldn’t it be easier to bring the cam where it needed to be and then move the crank gear? I have always done that even on DOHC as the crank is easier to move. I’ve always worried about valve train spring tensions and so forth making cam gear movement erratic. It doesn't work that way. With DOHC you can usually pin the phasers or gears themselves. In a pushrod V-8 you bring it to where TDC #1 has both valves closed. The cam and crank are keyed. You just slip both sprockets on together. But that guy had the cam sprocket off by one link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 It doesn't work that way. With DOHC you can usually pin the phasers or gears themselves. In a pushrod V-8 you bring it to where TDC #1 has both valves closed. The cam and crank are keyed. You just slip both sprockets on together. But that guy had the cam sprocket off by one link... I was saying with the chain taken off, the link between cam and crank is absent, so it should be possible to make small adjustments in either cam or crank or both to ensure everything is at TDC and then install the chain back on. It’s hard to mess that up. Oh I did peek in on the cam sprocket, i may be wrong but I don’t think I saw any fuel pump eccentric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I was saying with the chain taken off, the link between cam and crank is absent, so it should be possible to move either cam or crank or both to ensure everything is at TDC and then install the chain back on. It’s hard to mess that up. And yet.... here we are. 🙄 The guy needs to shift the cam gear one tooth in the chain! The keyways point directly at each other. If he couldn't get the sprockets started, he should have just slipped the cam gear in the chain and tried again. Instead, he managed to get it all the way on, but with the cam retarded one whole tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 I was saying with the chain taken off, the link between cam and crank is absent, so it should be possible to move either cam or crank or both to ensure everything is at TDC and then install the chain back on. It’s hard to mess that up. And yet.... here we are. 🙄 The guy needs to shift the cam gear one tooth in the chain! The keyways point directly at each other. If he couldn't get the sprockets started, he should have just slipped the cam gear in the chain and tried again. Instead, he managed to get it all the way on, but with the cam retarded one whole tooth. Ok I think I get what you are saying about his mistake, finally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viven44 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Ok I think I get what you are saying about his mistake, finally While laying low until more supplies arrive, I figured I would look at factory manual procedure for intake Intake gasket - 9D440 or 9C484 Clean mating surfaces using spot remover - B7A-19521-A (not sure what the equivalent is) Rubber sealer - D6AZ-19562-B (maps exactly to ultra black in the Permatex chart) Factory manual wants gasket maker only to be applied at the block mating surfaces on either side of the gaskets at the front and rear ends. No mention of use around the coolant ports, but I think i'll use it for insurance as there is definitely noticeable pitting on the manifold side. My favorite recommendation from the manual is the handling procedure where they want to use a jig with a couple of eyebolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 While laying low until more supplies arrive, I figured I would look at factory manual procedure for intake Intake gasket - 9D440 or 9C484 Clean mating surfaces using spot remover - B7A-19521-A (not sure what the equivalent is) Rubber sealer - D6AZ-19562-B (maps exactly to ultra black in the Permatex chart) Factory manual wants gasket maker only to be applied at the block mating surfaces on either side of the gaskets at the front and rear ends. No mention of use around the coolant ports, but I think i'll use it for insurance as there is definitely noticeable pitting on the manifold side. My favorite recommendation from the manual is the handling procedure where they want to use a jig with a couple of eyebolts The only problem with a shop crane/engine hoist is that it lowers in an arc, and not straight down. With a pan you only really have to seal the lifter valley. The manifold itself doesn't matter at the china walls, only at the ports. You also realize that their chemical recommendation reflects only wat was widely* available when it was written. I know that when "TRS" came out in GM dealers, it was immediately viewed a a problem solver by all mechanics, across the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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