Gary Lewis Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I saw the following on Facebook this evening and thought it was interesting so wanted to share with y'all. Please share your thoughts. But I am attempting to contact Ron to get more info. A A Ron Ioder 6.9 & 7.3 idi electric fan clutch conversion I made this kit to solve the issue of finding a good fan clutch for the idis. I prefer motorcraft parts for most things on my own vehicle. Since they are no longer available for our trucks I developed this kit as a solution for that issue. This kit comes with everything needed (except time and tools) to install. I include a controller, adapter bushing, templates, instructions, wiring harness with motorcraft connector, and wiring terminals. This kit gives the ability to have driver input to engage the electro-viscous fan clutch on(say at the bottom of a hill/grade), or allow the controller to regulate temperature according to coolant temp. The controller is also user adjustable so you can set it at any desired temperature. This works with v-belt or serpentine,z ,q on the stock fan or for the ultimate setup in cooling, use this fan clutch kit in conjunction with my upgraded 9 blade fan. Operation: When it turns on; it starts the fan clutch at 60% duty cycle when the coolant temperature threshold is reached and ramps to 100% duty cycle over 10* of increase in coolant temperature. For example if you set it to come on at 200* it will turn on at 60% duty cycle and by the time it reaches 210 it will be 100% duty cycle. With ac it is turned on at 60% to keep you cool in the summer, and 100% on with a user supplied toggle switch for any scenario. I offer two kits. One complete kit with all necessary components to swap including a motorcraft fan clutch $660 shipped to the lower 48 And a builders kit for those of you who want to save a little money and source your own fan clutch. If you go this route, you will need to purchase your own fan clutch from a 2008-2010 f250-f550 6.4 separately. $350 shipped to the lower 48 Any questions you can message me or my business page Workhorse Customs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 It's an interesting approach! 🤷♂️ Personally, I think it doesn't offer me a thing over the available thermal clutch and a whole lot more complexity that I always try to avoid. It's basically coming on at 60% until that is not enough and then it locks up completely? Why would I want to 'force' my fan on? It already knows if the radiator is not keeping up. My distributor vacuum advance knows if the coolant reaches a threshold, and steps up my idle automagically. I will avoid wiring, "electronic modules" of any kind at almost any cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Messaged with him on FB and got this response: Unfortunately the kit I have is only for ford 6.9/7.3 idi at this point. I have not found a electroviscous fan clutch I could adapt to a 460 water pump because they are 4 bolt rather than thread on. Also by the time you build an adapter to make one work you are into the radiator, and my goal is to keep things as close to bolt on as possible. and I would draw the line at moving the core support forward. lolI am up for suggestions, but at this point I had not come up with anything. I also have looked into it for 12 valve Cummins and 454 and ran into much the same issues. So this isn't going to work for Big Blue, at least not at the moment. But it might for some of the shorter/smaller engines if a 4-bolt-to-thread-on adapter were made. And I found this to explain how the clutches work: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 It's an interesting approach! 🤷♂️ Personally, I think it doesn't offer me a thing over the available thermal clutch and a whole lot more complexity that I always try to avoid. It's basically coming on at 60% until that is not enough and then it locks up completely? Why would I want to 'force' my fan on? It already knows if the radiator is not keeping up. My distributor vacuum advance knows if the coolant reaches a threshold, and steps up my idle automagically. I will avoid wiring, "electronic modules" of any kind at almost any cost. In your case, Jim, you are right. But others have been discussing using electric fans and I thought this was an interesting approach that I'd not heard of. So I did more reading and found this article: Use of electronic viscous drive to optimize fan duty cycle. I've not read all of it by any means, but I did see this summary: The Electronic Viscous Fan Drive Clutch is one of the key components of cooling system in automotive sectors. It is more efficient than the current traditional bimetal operated Mechanical Viscous Fan Drive Clutch in terms of fan power consumption. The comparative change in fan power with both fan drives is studied and it is observed that with electronic fan clutch 86% reduction in fan power is achieved. So I'm going to read more to see how that is achieved and what the advantages or disadvantages are. But it would seem that it has to be a better approach than turning mechanical energy into electric energy and then turning electric energy back into mechanical energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 In your case, Jim, you are right. But others have been discussing using electric fans and I thought this was an interesting approach that I'd not heard of. So I did more reading and found this article: Use of electronic viscous drive to optimize fan duty cycle. I've not read all of it by any means, but I did see this summary: The Electronic Viscous Fan Drive Clutch is one of the key components of cooling system in automotive sectors. It is more efficient than the current traditional bimetal operated Mechanical Viscous Fan Drive Clutch in terms of fan power consumption. The comparative change in fan power with both fan drives is studied and it is observed that with electronic fan clutch 86% reduction in fan power is achieved. So I'm going to read more to see how that is achieved and what the advantages or disadvantages are. But it would seem that it has to be a better approach than turning mechanical energy into electric energy and then turning electric energy back into mechanical energy. I guess it could work for Blue??? No one is ever going to beat the laws of thermodynamics. Phase change is inherently energy intensive. I try to make this point every time some idiot starts pushing 'green hydrogen' as a storage solution for automobiles or the grid. I'm really tired of the greenwashing BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 I guess it could work for Blue??? No one is ever going to beat the laws of thermodynamics. Phase change is inherently energy intensive. I try to make this point every time some idiot starts pushing 'green hydrogen' as a storage solution for automobiles or the grid. I'm really tired of the greenwashing BS That’s exactly my point. Since these trucks have north/south engines they lend themselves to a mechanically-driven fan. Much more efficient than changing from one form of energy to another and then back again. But the mechanical-viscous fan clutches we have aren’t the most efficient as they never fully quit blowing. Nor do they go to 100% of engine speed so don’t cool as well as they could. Supposedly the electro-viscous clutches do fully coast as well as go to full engine speed so not only are more efficient but they also cool better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifitaintbroke Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 It's an interesting approach! 🤷♂️ Personally, I think it doesn't offer me a thing over the available thermal clutch and a whole lot more complexity that I always try to avoid. It's basically coming on at 60% until that is not enough and then it locks up completely? Why would I want to 'force' my fan on? It already knows if the radiator is not keeping up. My distributor vacuum advance knows if the coolant reaches a threshold, and steps up my idle automagically. I will avoid wiring, "electronic modules" of any kind at almost any cost. I will avoid wiring, "electronic modules" of any kind at almost any cost. Well Jim, you just spelled out my view on such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 That’s exactly my point. Since these trucks have north/south engines they lend themselves to a mechanically-driven fan. Much more efficient than changing from one form of energy to another and then back again. But the mechanical-viscous fan clutches we have aren’t the most efficient as they never fully quit blowing. Nor do they go to 100% of engine speed so don’t cool as well as they could. Supposedly the electro-viscous clutches do fully coast as well as go to full engine speed so not only are more efficient but they also cool better. I can hold my fan blade in place with one finger. The viscous clutch is certainly not turning a bunch of horsepower into wasted motion. If you're moving the fan doesn't have much to do anyway. Back to my point... There is NO WAY turning motion into electricity and electricity back into motive power to drive something as hungry as a fan is EVER going to meet the the efficiency of just using that motion in the first place. Edit: You are not only using the engine to turn the fan at this point, you are ALSO using the alternator (indirectly) to hold the fan TO the engine! And there's not a hundred points of electron failure in between. You need considerable power to lock that clutch (hence, relays and big wires) You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I can hold my fan blade in place with one finger. The viscous clutch is certainly not turning a bunch of horsepower into wasted motion. If you're moving the fan doesn't have much to do anyway. Back to my point... There is NO WAY turning motion into electricity and electricity back into motive power to drive something as hungry as a fan is EVER going to meet the the efficiency of just using that motion in the first place. Edit: You are not only using the engine to turn the fan at this point, you are ALSO using the alternator (indirectly) to hold the fan TO the engine! And there's not a hundred points of electron failure in between. You need considerable power to lock that clutch (hence, relays and big wires) You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand this.... Depends on the clutch. Many of the ones I've worked with have a fair bit of backdrag. And the ones that were looser had bad bearings (or were otherwise junk). Also, a lot of the E-fan reasoning/goals are reductions in rotating mass, which they indisputably are, especially in racing situations, especially drag. ---- I did an e-fan conversion (single speed + PWM controller) on my ranger and gained 1MPG on the highway. But, in that case, Ford already made a drop in alternator upgrade (3G 95A to 130A) so it was mostly an addition than a swap. On my F150, an e-clutch might make sense if the current draw wasn't too terrible, as it still has the stock 60A 1G setup; while I did add a CB radio (which is stock and doesn't draw much), I likely freed some capacity when I added LED headlights. But, due to the generally lower RPMs my F150 runs and the "on-off" nature of such a fan clutch, I doubt the gains would be as nice. And the price tag makes the deal that much sourer. Edit- the OP listing shows the fan as being variable... but the Hayden documentation Gary posted later makes it sound more like an on-off. Depending on how the unit's built, "variable" could mean partially slipping the clutch ... or just pulsing the clutch (similar to how A/C clutches work in practice). Either way, nowhere near as variable as a PWM E-Fan like I'm running on my Ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Depends on the clutch. Many of the ones I've worked with have a fair bit of backdrag. And the ones that were looser had bad bearings (or were otherwise junk). Also, a lot of the E-fan reasoning/goals are reductions in rotating mass, which they indisputably are, especially in racing situations, especially drag. ---- I did an e-fan conversion (single speed + PWM controller) on my ranger and gained 1MPG on the highway. But, in that case, Ford already made a drop in alternator upgrade (3G 95A to 130A) so it was mostly an addition than a swap. On my F150, an e-clutch might make sense if the current draw wasn't too terrible, as it still has the stock 60A 1G setup; while I did add a CB radio (which is stock and doesn't draw much), I likely freed some capacity when I added LED headlights. But, due to the generally lower RPMs my F150 runs and the "on-off" nature of such a fan clutch, I doubt the gains would be as nice. And the price tag makes the deal that much sourer. Edit- the OP listing shows the fan as being variable... but the Hayden documentation Gary posted later makes it sound more like an on-off. Depending on how the unit's built, "variable" could mean partially slipping the clutch ... or just pulsing the clutch (similar to how A/C clutches work in practice). Either way, nowhere near as variable as a PWM E-Fan like I'm running on my Ranger. I forgot what I used to use.... Hayden???? Id get them from my buddy Rick Piper at Portchester Auto Radiator and AC, his family business. Now the only see is Four Seasons (and what I have today) I thought Visteon was doing them, but they were rolled into some "investment group"'s M&A and like everything else (Holley, Prestolite, etc) turned to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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