mat in tn Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Question for you... What year F-350? If it's manual ('83 on) how was a rear sump pan implemented with the 71 engine? '71 has a dipstick in the timing cover.... All '80/ trucks have a rear sump. There's an extended pickup that hangs from a stud in the passenger side #4 main cap. With an internal balance crank I don't even know if the pickup tube will clear the counterweights. I know you can't use a D9 block because the sleeves project too far. this will get clearer to me tomorrow when I remove the pan. the front dipstick in the timing cover is pinched off about 2' tall right where the sharp edges can surprise the unlucky wrencher. the pan is a newer replacement that has the dipstick in the pan. this is obviously a cobbled together mess that I'm trying to clean up. I will have to run the parts numbers of the flywheel also to be certain it is a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 this will get clearer to me tomorrow when I remove the pan. the front dipstick in the timing cover is pinched off about 2' tall right where the sharp edges can surprise the unlucky wrencher. the pan is a newer replacement that has the dipstick in the pan. this is obviously a cobbled together mess that I'm trying to clean up. I will have to run the parts numbers of the flywheel also to be certain it is a match. Through 78 are internal balance, so no 'pork chop' behind the harmonic damper (just a sleeve spacer) And a flywheel with no lumps or welded on weights. If the rear crank flange has an equal bolt circle pattern you can be sure it's a pre '79 (internal) crank. When you pull the pan off you will see the rear pickup, held by a tab under a flange nut on the bearing cap stud. FRPP offered a rear sump 'kit' with pan, pickup & dipstick. I'm going to suggest that a pair of L&L swap motor mounts will put the engine higher and probably solve the belt hitting the steering adjuster screw, and make more room for the alternator. These seem to still be okay with the fan in the radiator shroud. (but I'm not trying to spend your money) If this engine has a mechanical pump I can recommend a new timing case (about a Franklin) This fixes water port erosion and the dipstick in one fell swoop. Be sure to check the water pump backing plate for heavy pitting or holes. Again, I'm minding your business, and I apologize for the overshare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Through 78 are internal balance, so no 'pork chop' behind the harmonic damper (just a sleeve spacer) And a flywheel with no lumps or welded on weights. If the rear crank flange has an equal bolt circle pattern you can be sure it's a pre '79 (internal) crank. When you pull the pan off you will see the rear pickup, held by a tab under a flange nut on the bearing cap stud. FRPP offered a rear sump 'kit' with pan, pickup & dipstick. I'm going to suggest that a pair of L&L swap motor mounts will put the engine higher and probably solve the belt hitting the steering adjuster screw, and make more room for the alternator. These seem to still be okay with the fan in the radiator shroud. (but I'm not trying to spend your money) If this engine has a mechanical pump I can recommend a new timing case (about a Franklin) This fixes water port erosion and the dipstick in one fell swoop. Be sure to check the water pump backing plate for heavy pitting or holes. Again, I'm minding your business, and I apologize for the overshare. these are all good points. looking for corrosion is always a thing. I have had to cut covers before to be able to get to a corrosion broken bolt. not fun but sometimes you have to decide what to sacrifice to save the whole. I already considered "shimming the motor mounts a bit if I need to but I really wish I had a gauge for where everything should sit considering angles of trans, drive shafts pinion etc. but i am fairly versed on sbf and not bbf. I get to do this, and I like it, but it is why I opened the thread. I do see a lot of similarities with my 351m but mostly in how it differs from sbf. I will be open to knowledge from the experienced and the experience that I can gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 these are all good points. looking for corrosion is always a thing. I have had to cut covers before to be able to get to a corrosion broken bolt. not fun but sometimes you have to decide what to sacrifice to save the whole. I already considered "shimming the motor mounts a bit if I need to but I really wish I had a gauge for where everything should sit considering angles of trans, drive shafts pinion etc. but i am fairly versed on sbf and not bbf. I get to do this, and I like it, but it is why I opened the thread. I do see a lot of similarities with my 351m but mostly in how it differs from sbf. I will be open to knowledge from the experienced and the experience that I can gain. I have noticed and I'm very aware that the engine was nose down with the trans tail shaft up causing the front half to be sloped down to the carrier bearing then back upwards to the axle. it's a bit of an up, down, up, down thing. not as linear as I would like. probably a ton of. roofing sitting in the bed along with the weight of the bed and hydraulics. so, the rear half could be expected but I want to align as good as I can when the engine goes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I have noticed and I'm very aware that the engine was nose down with the trans tail shaft up causing the front half to be sloped down to the carrier bearing then back upwards to the axle. it's a bit of an up, down, up, down thing. not as linear as I would like. probably a ton of. roofing sitting in the bed along with the weight of the bed and hydraulics. so, the rear half could be expected but I want to align as good as I can when the engine goes back. Again, you're the expert, and I respect that. I'm just trying to offer insight from the decades of 385 experience I have. You pick up on this right away, I KNOW. so.... I should stop offering unsolicited 'advice' and wait for your input. But , at the same time, you may not know the important questions to ask. Hopefully I'm not getting on your nerves. (I can definitely be that way) The truck is obviously a ¢|u$+€£ £π¢! Let me know if and how I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Again, you're the expert, and I respect that. I'm just trying to offer insight from the decades of 385 experience I have. You pick up on this right away, I KNOW. so.... I should stop offering unsolicited 'advice' and wait for your input. But , at the same time, you may not know the important questions to ask. Hopefully I'm not getting on your nerves. (I can definitely be that way) The truck is obviously a ¢|u$+€£ £π¢! Let me know if and how I can help. all good. I joined this forum a few years back because I value the shared knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 all good. I joined this forum a few years back because I value the shared knowledge. I use PST on ALL the timing case and water pump bolts. The Teflon keeps them from seizing/corroding into the Zamak case (anti seize tends to promote corrosion and makes it MUCH messier than need be) https://www.ebay.com/itm/285603901545?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285603901545&targetid=1645685074288&device=t&mktype=pla&googleloc=1014778&poi=&campaignid=20133407470&mkgroupid=147476396765&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074288&abcId=9312979&merchantid=5308819465&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1PqoFME7y6GG1L8VON7YVyLFaegzV6Evj7hLgD25kYPlG5ACMrZ1UhoCJSMQAvD_BwE https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-8501-460bp?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1N5shcXvwgWdxMTJYIgmRLrLvyLKDmQeO-BiNLV2JnTzyqEh8UN27BoC5VcQAvD_BwE https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-120114?srsltid=AfmBOopmW8G1299L4GUPdm403tqWWai7W1MbMFuJrs5bovcufUVdI5gbjyk https://www.landlproducts.com/460-motor-mounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 I use PST on ALL the timing case and water pump bolts. The Teflon keeps them from seizing/corroding into the Zamak case (anti seize tends to promote corrosion and makes it MUCH messier than need be) https://www.ebay.com/itm/285603901545?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285603901545&targetid=1645685074288&device=t&mktype=pla&googleloc=1014778&poi=&campaignid=20133407470&mkgroupid=147476396765&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074288&abcId=9312979&merchantid=5308819465&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1PqoFME7y6GG1L8VON7YVyLFaegzV6Evj7hLgD25kYPlG5ACMrZ1UhoCJSMQAvD_BwE https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-8501-460bp?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1N5shcXvwgWdxMTJYIgmRLrLvyLKDmQeO-BiNLV2JnTzyqEh8UN27BoC5VcQAvD_BwE https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-120114?srsltid=AfmBOopmW8G1299L4GUPdm403tqWWai7W1MbMFuJrs5bovcufUVdI5gbjyk https://www.landlproducts.com/460-motor-mounts thanks for the links. not sure about which if any will be needed but the oil filter adapter I really like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 thanks for the links. not sure about which if any will be needed but the oil filter adapter I really like. If you have an early block and oil pan you need to get the timing case with all the same size holes. On D9TE engines the bolts either side of the FMS are bigger ( 5/16 instead of 1/4???) So, something to look out for when you pop the pan back on, especially if just doing the cover and using the little 'ears' that glue in place. Also, when you pull the cover, there will be a convolute weep passage for the ports either side of the water pump in the back of the timing case. (where it usually corrodes) Be careful not to fill these up with RTV on re-installation. They keep leaks from going directly into the sump, hidden from view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 If you have an early block and oil pan you need to get the timing case with all the same size holes. On D9TE engines the bolts either side of the FMS are bigger ( 5/16 instead of 1/4???) So, something to look out for when you pop the pan back on, especially if just doing the cover and using the little 'ears' that glue in place. Also, when you pull the cover, there will be a convolute weep passage for the ports either side of the water pump in the back of the timing case. (where it usually corrodes) Be careful not to fill these up with RTV on re-installation. They keep leaks from going directly into the sump, hidden from view. well, I got it fully apart today. four pistons dropped their broken rings upon removal, two pistons galled at the skirts and top. obvious sign of the bores having been rusted and then "freed up". main bearings shot. the timing chain has 1 1/2" slack. so, it's clearly just worn out. the oil pump pickup does reach toward the back and fit the pan properly. for the most part all parts seem to fit as well as need be. the timing cover will get thoroughly cleaned before that judgment gets made. I have a little time now that I have dropped the block off at the machine shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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