Steve83 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 ...I used a little anti seize on the backing plate & adjuster as it does not get hard like white grease does.Neither of those is the correct lubricant, so that's one problem in the drums... https://supermotors.net/getfile/919513/thumbnail/06greases.jpg...how the spring was before I cut some to make it shorter...I'm not sure what you're saying, but cutting ANY spring is another problem in the drum. If you mean the spring on the e-brake cable - that would be why it's not fully releasing, which will prevent the autoadjuster from working. Read those captions - they explain exactly how the whole drum system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 ...I used a little anti seize on the backing plate & adjuster as it does not get hard like white grease does.Neither of those is the correct lubricant, so that's one problem in the drums... https://supermotors.net/getfile/919513/thumbnail/06greases.jpg...how the spring was before I cut some to make it shorter...I'm not sure what you're saying, but cutting ANY spring is another problem in the drum. If you mean the spring on the e-brake cable - that would be why it's not fully releasing, which will prevent the autoadjuster from working. Read those captions - they explain exactly how the whole drum system works. Anti seize is used on the brakes of big rigs and was told by an old truck driver. I have used it on all the brakes I have done and never any problems and if it holds up to ehx. manifold heat on the nuts & bolts it will and has on brakes. Did you see the picture I posted of the of the spring on the cable to the arm on the shoe? Did you see how it was looped below the backing plate? Because of the loop you could not install the drums. Have you ever seen a spring do that if it was the right cable / spring? BTW the arm is up tight to the shoe and will not go back any more. So how do you get the loop out so the drums will fit and not have coil bind when the ebrake is applied? That spring should push the arms back, the cable & spring be straight and have enough movement with out coil bind to pull the arm back to apply the ebrake. I have to find the paper work on the cables but at this time I believe the cables to be the wrong ones. This is not the first brake overhaul I have done and all the rest of the parts work it is just the cables. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 ...I used a little anti seize on the backing plate & adjuster as it does not get hard like white grease does.Neither of those is the correct lubricant, so that's one problem in the drums... https://supermotors.net/getfile/919513/thumbnail/06greases.jpg...how the spring was before I cut some to make it shorter...I'm not sure what you're saying, but cutting ANY spring is another problem in the drum. If you mean the spring on the e-brake cable - that would be why it's not fully releasing, which will prevent the autoadjuster from working. Read those captions - they explain exactly how the whole drum system works. Anti seize is used on the brakes of big rigs and was told by an old truck driver. I have used it on all the brakes I have done and never any problems and if it holds up to ehx. manifold heat on the nuts & bolts it will and has on brakes. Did you see the picture I posted of the of the spring on the cable to the arm on the shoe? Did you see how it was looped below the backing plate? Because of the loop you could not install the drums. Have you ever seen a spring do that if it was the right cable / spring? BTW the arm is up tight to the shoe and will not go back any more. So how do you get the loop out so the drums will fit and not have coil bind when the ebrake is applied? That spring should push the arms back, the cable & spring be straight and have enough movement with out coil bind to pull the arm back to apply the ebrake. I have to find the paper work on the cables but at this time I believe the cables to be the wrong ones. This is not the first brake overhaul I have done and all the rest of the parts work it is just the cables. Dave ---- Holding up to the heat isn't the issue. If that was all that mattered, sand would work. Anti-seize isn't for moving parts - it's for parts that DON'T move for years, and then need "lubrication" for disassembly only. It's not a "lubricant" the way that grease & oil are. Regardless of that, truck drivers are not materials engineers, and the engineers who design anti seize don't recommend it for the moving parts of brakes. The ones I posted ARE designed for brakes. If the cables are wrong, then that's a problem. But the way to take the loops out of the springs is to pull the cables tight. They'll pull the springs into line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Holding up to the heat isn't the issue. If that was all that mattered, sand would work. Anti-seize isn't for moving parts - it's for parts that DON'T move for years, and then need "lubrication" for disassembly only. It's not a "lubricant" the way that grease & oil are. Regardless of that, truck drivers are not materials engineers, and the engineers who design anti seize don't recommend it for the moving parts of brakes. The ones I posted ARE designed for brakes. If the cables are wrong, then that's a problem. But the way to take the loops out of the springs is to pull the cables tight. They'll pull the springs into line. Well taken on the anti seize. On the pulling the cable to take the loop out has 2 problems. 1 to pull it straight the spring would be in coil bind. In the picture the arm is to the shoe and the cable is in the backing plate so the room you see is what I have to work with. 2 I cant pull the cables more as the pedal hits the floor even with the factory adjuster taken all the way up and adding the Dorman part that started all this. I went thru all my paper work and could not find, also missing other paper work for parts, who I got the cables from but the rest of the brake parts were thru Auto Zone so that may be who I got them from? Looking up the parts on AZ on line and they only list the rear cables for "With ambulance preparation package" what ever that is? So my thinking is it has to be a F350 to be an ambulance. From the brake parts page it would have 12" drums mine should be 11" being non-power and 5x5.5 wheel bolt pattern but would need to measure to be 100% sure. Rock Auto looks to have the right ones so when I get a little coin in the pockets I will get them and a new booster & master as they have issues and are the only things not new in the brake system. Dave ---- ps I know I said the truck drums are non-power as are the calipers but has a booster & master that are. In the cross checking I have done the wheel cly. & caliper piston sizes are the same as is the master bore between the trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Well taken on the anti seize. On the pulling the cable to take the loop out has 2 problems. 1 to pull it straight the spring would be in coil bind. In the picture the arm is to the shoe and the cable is in the backing plate so the room you see is what I have to work with. 2 I cant pull the cables more as the pedal hits the floor even with the factory adjuster taken all the way up and adding the Dorman part that started all this. I went thru all my paper work and could not find, also missing other paper work for parts, who I got the cables from but the rest of the brake parts were thru Auto Zone so that may be who I got them from? Looking up the parts on AZ on line and they only list the rear cables for "With ambulance preparation package" what ever that is? So my thinking is it has to be a F350 to be an ambulance. From the brake parts page it would have 12" drums mine should be 11" being non-power and 5x5.5 wheel bolt pattern but would need to measure to be 100% sure. Rock Auto looks to have the right ones so when I get a little coin in the pockets I will get them and a new booster & master as they have issues and are the only things not new in the brake system. Dave ---- ps I know I said the truck drums are non-power as are the calipers but has a booster & master that are. In the cross checking I have done the wheel cly. & caliper piston sizes are the same as is the master bore between the trucks. Dave - I guess you know that all of the brake parts are here: Driveline/Brakes, and the cables are on the Parking Brake tab. It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases, and varied the front cable's length to accommodate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 Dave - I guess you know that all of the brake parts are here: Driveline/Brakes, and the cables are on the Parking Brake tab. It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases, and varied the front cable's length to accommodate. Yes I did see that both the tabs and the front cable. But checking on LMC site they do list different cables for the I think it is 83/86 and 87/9? and different cables again for the F250 & F350 trucks. Also checking the brake tabs the larger trucks also have 12" drums where mine should be 11", think my parts truck has the 10" drums. Because of the larger drums I would think the cable end inside the drum would be longer as it now has to reach farther across to the arm. If this is true then the spring would also need to be longer to push the arm back when released. Then again I don't remember seeing different cables for 10" & 11" drums so maybe I am crazy don't answer that guys I will get to the bottom of this as it has to work to pass safety to get plates after that no more checks. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Dave - I guess you know that all of the brake parts are here: Driveline/Brakes, and the cables are on the Parking Brake tab. It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases, and varied the front cable's length to accommodate. Yes I did see that both the tabs and the front cable. But checking on LMC site they do list different cables for the I think it is 83/86 and 87/9? and different cables again for the F250 & F350 trucks. Also checking the brake tabs the larger trucks also have 12" drums where mine should be 11", think my parts truck has the 10" drums. Because of the larger drums I would think the cable end inside the drum would be longer as it now has to reach farther across to the arm. If this is true then the spring would also need to be longer to push the arm back when released. Then again I don't remember seeing different cables for 10" & 11" drums so maybe I am crazy don't answer that guys I will get to the bottom of this as it has to work to pass safety to get plates after that no more checks. Dave ---- Dave - I just realized that I hadn't fully explained which trucks use which columns in the parking brake section. So I upgraded the page a bit. Perhaps that will help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases...That's what I've observed, for all '80-96 1/2-ton Ford trucks....varied the front cable's length to accommodate.From what I've seen working on trucks & in JYs, they varied the length of the intermediate cable between the pedal (front) cable & the equalizer. IOW: there's only 1 left cable, 1 right cable, 1 pedal assy. w/cable, 1 tension limiter/equalizer; but several intermediate cables for the various wheelbases. Broncos got no intermediate cable (until '92-96, when the tension limiter was deleted)....I would think the cable end inside the drum would be longer as it now has to reach farther across to the arm. If this is true then the spring would also need to be longer to push the arm back when released.I'd guess they just moved the cable mounting hole on the backing plate so it's the same distance from the e-brake lever. But I don't think I've ever seen a truck with 10" drums to actually compare. Even the '75 Bronco I built had 11s on its 9" axle. https://supermotors.net/getfile/730019/thumbnail/shoes.jpg I haven't paid much attention to the (4-wheel) drums on the '74 Bronco I'm working on now, but I'll probably get more-familiar than I want with it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 Dave - I just realized that I hadn't fully explained which trucks use which columns in the parking brake section. So I upgraded the page a bit. Perhaps that will help? Thank you Gary I will check it out again. Dave ---- It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases...That's what I've observed, for all '80-96 1/2-ton Ford trucks....varied the front cable's length to accommodate.From what I've seen working on trucks & in JYs, they varied the length of the intermediate cable between the pedal (front) cable & the equalizer. IOW: there's only 1 left cable, 1 right cable, 1 pedal assy. w/cable, 1 tension limiter/equalizer; but several intermediate cables for the various wheelbases. Broncos got no intermediate cable (until '92-96, when the tension limiter was deleted)....I would think the cable end inside the drum would be longer as it now has to reach farther across to the arm. If this is true then the spring would also need to be longer to push the arm back when released.I'd guess they just moved the cable mounting hole on the backing plate so it's the same distance from the e-brake lever. But I don't think I've ever seen a truck with 10" drums to actually compare. Even the '75 Bronco I built had 11s on its 9" axle. https://supermotors.net/getfile/730019/thumbnail/shoes.jpg I haven't paid much attention to the (4-wheel) drums on the '74 Bronco I'm working on now, but I'll probably get more-familiar than I want with it soon. The 10" I believe is used on the 5x4.5 wheel pattern 9" axles. I have not measured my parts truck drums but I can after I dig it out from hiding. On this intermediate cable, I don't remember seeing any on either of my trucks. The front cable goes to the tension limiter/equalizer then the rear cables hook to it. 1 truck is a short bed the other a long bed both standard cabs. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 Dave - I just realized that I hadn't fully explained which trucks use which columns in the parking brake section. So I upgraded the page a bit. Perhaps that will help? Thank you Gary I will check it out again. Dave ---- It appears they kept the rear cables the same for the various wheelbases...That's what I've observed, for all '80-96 1/2-ton Ford trucks....varied the front cable's length to accommodate.From what I've seen working on trucks & in JYs, they varied the length of the intermediate cable between the pedal (front) cable & the equalizer. IOW: there's only 1 left cable, 1 right cable, 1 pedal assy. w/cable, 1 tension limiter/equalizer; but several intermediate cables for the various wheelbases. Broncos got no intermediate cable (until '92-96, when the tension limiter was deleted)....I would think the cable end inside the drum would be longer as it now has to reach farther across to the arm. If this is true then the spring would also need to be longer to push the arm back when released.I'd guess they just moved the cable mounting hole on the backing plate so it's the same distance from the e-brake lever. But I don't think I've ever seen a truck with 10" drums to actually compare. Even the '75 Bronco I built had 11s on its 9" axle. https://supermotors.net/getfile/730019/thumbnail/shoes.jpg I haven't paid much attention to the (4-wheel) drums on the '74 Bronco I'm working on now, but I'll probably get more-familiar than I want with it soon. The 10" I believe is used on the 5x4.5 wheel pattern 9" axles. I have not measured my parts truck drums but I can after I dig it out from hiding. On this intermediate cable, I don't remember seeing any on either of my trucks. The front cable goes to the tension limiter/equalizer then the rear cables hook to it. 1 truck is a short bed the other a long bed both standard cabs. Dave ---- Well can’t spend any money on the truck for a bit. Had to drop $200+ with home land security to renew my port & HazMat credentials and I still need to take the HazMat test, more $$, with NCDOT to keep it on my driver license. This way I can do the LP gas loads come winter and get cement at the ports in the summer. I am lucky my employer pays for my medical card renewal every year, did that the same day as the credentials, that was another $100 I think it is or I can’t keep my CDL license. Who said being a truck driver is easy & cheap? Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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