Rear Bumper/Spare Tire Mount Thoughts

[Gary Lewis]

That's good info. I wasn't aware of the issue with events and tow eyes, but that makes sense. Do you remember what ones you used? I'll look around, but if you had a recommendation that might help....

And, I like that latch. Lift the swing arm a bit to get it into the V, and then clamp it down with the latch. Won't go fore/aft nor up/down.

Thanks!

I made my own tow eyes. I started with some 1" thick x 4" tall bar stock and milled away everything that didn't look like a tow eye or a bumper mount. I used 2"(?) x 4" C-channel for a bumper and milled holes in it for the tow eyes to poke through and welded the bumper to the tow eyes. The tow eyes are... stout. I probably wouldn't recommend using that much steel for them. 1/2" or even 3/8" thick is probably plenty. (And they aren't still 1" thick in the tow eye section, I had to mill that thinner to fit a standard clevis over it.) But I'm happy with what I have. Below is a picture of the finished product.

And on my Jeep the "V" pointed backward, so the carrier just swung into it, no lifting required. The clamp pulled the arm forward, to bottom it in the "V" and the taper on the top and bottom of the "V" kept the free end of the arm from moving up and down. And calling it a "V" is maybe misleading. there wasn't a lot of angle to the top and bottom. Just enough to kind of wedge the arm in place.

My friend makes tow eyes out of 1" stock. I haven't seen them yet, but assuming a clevis will attach, if they were drilled and tapped they could be welded to the bumper over a hole in it. Then the bracket from the frame could come back and the bumper could be attached to the bracket via the tow eyes.

In addition, if 3/16 or 1/4" angle was used to attach to the hitch mounting spots and tie into bumper it would be extremely solid. I would not have any fears of off-angle pulls damaging anything as the bumper would tie the whole back end of the frame together tightly.

As for the latch, are you saying the V was a shallow ramp? I was wondering about doing that as it would put enough tension on the swing arm that nothing would move. Or, am I misunderstanding?

[Nothing Special]

My friend makes tow eyes out of 1" stock. I haven't seen them yet, but assuming a clevis will attach, if they were drilled and tapped they could be welded to the bumper over a hole in it. Then the bracket from the frame could come back and the bumper could be attached to the bracket via the tow eyes.

I think you will definitely want to be able to attach a clevis to your tow eyes. That's a very secure and versatile way to go.

And in my case the "bracket" and the tow eye was all one piece of steel. But if you wanted to have a bracket bolted to the frame behind the bumper and the tow point on the front of the bumper, with bolts going through the bumper to attach them, then you'd have your non-welded tow points too. That does make it a lot harder to use your bumper as an air tank (if you still were thinking of doing that). Running the tow point all the way through the bumper like I did doesn't rule it out with a hollow bumper, it just means you need to have two air-tight welds instead of one.

In addition, if 3/16 or 1/4" angle was used to attach to the hitch mounting spots and tie into bumper it would be extremely solid. I would not have any fears of off-angle pulls damaging anything as the bumper would tie the whole back end of the frame together tightly.

Yeah, you can make a bumper with an integrated receiver plenty stout. The challenge is usually more in not making it too heavy. On my Bronco I really couldn't angle from the hitch to the frame as the fuel tank is right there. You can sort of see in the picture above that I just boxed in the back side of the bumper by welding another length of C-channel to it between the frame horns. The receiver tube goes through, and is welded to, both C-channels, with a massive gusset plate flush with the lower edge of the bumper (the gusset plate also serves as the safety chain attachment points). I also put the trailer light connection through the face of the bumper, so none of that stuff hangs down to catch rocks.

As for the latch, are you saying the V was a shallow ramp? I was wondering about doing that as it would put enough tension on the swing arm that nothing would move. Or, am I misunderstanding?

I think you're getting what I did there.

But I'm not saying that you shouldn't go with any of the ideas you had previously, just telling you what I did on my Jeep first, and now on my Bronco.

 

[Gary Lewis]

My friend makes tow eyes out of 1" stock. I haven't seen them yet, but assuming a clevis will attach, if they were drilled and tapped they could be welded to the bumper over a hole in it. Then the bracket from the frame could come back and the bumper could be attached to the bracket via the tow eyes.

I think you will definitely want to be able to attach a clevis to your tow eyes. That's a very secure and versatile way to go.

And in my case the "bracket" and the tow eye was all one piece of steel. But if you wanted to have a bracket bolted to the frame behind the bumper and the tow point on the front of the bumper, with bolts going through the bumper to attach them, then you'd have your non-welded tow points too. That does make it a lot harder to use your bumper as an air tank (if you still were thinking of doing that). Running the tow point all the way through the bumper like I did doesn't rule it out with a hollow bumper, it just means you need to have two air-tight welds instead of one.

In addition, if 3/16 or 1/4" angle was used to attach to the hitch mounting spots and tie into bumper it would be extremely solid. I would not have any fears of off-angle pulls damaging anything as the bumper would tie the whole back end of the frame together tightly.

Yeah, you can make a bumper with an integrated receiver plenty stout. The challenge is usually more in not making it too heavy. On my Bronco I really couldn't angle from the hitch to the frame as the fuel tank is right there. You can sort of see in the picture above that I just boxed in the back side of the bumper by welding another length of C-channel to it between the frame horns. The receiver tube goes through, and is welded to, both C-channels, with a massive gusset plate flush with the lower edge of the bumper (the gusset plate also serves as the safety chain attachment points). I also put the trailer light connection through the face of the bumper, so none of that stuff hangs down to catch rocks.

As for the latch, are you saying the V was a shallow ramp? I was wondering about doing that as it would put enough tension on the swing arm that nothing would move. Or, am I misunderstanding?

I think you're getting what I did there.

But I'm not saying that you shouldn't go with any of the ideas you had previously, just telling you what I did on my Jeep first, and now on my Bronco.

Your tow eyes went all the way to the frame!? So, no brackets. I like that as it is the most solid approach, and will measure in a bit to see how that might work on Big Blue.

As for an air tank in the bumper, I've got two tanks that I'll test today to see how they might fit under the bed, outside of the frame. If one of those will fit then that would be easier and free up the design for the bumper.

On the latch, I'm not sure I understand which way it ran - vertically or horizontally.

And I'm comparing the security of that kind of latch to the one Steve suggested. The over-center latch like you used is pretty secure, but there's no "safety" on it that I can think of. But on Steve's latch you could drill it for a safety pin like is used on a trailer hitch, and be pretty sure it won't open. Thoughts?

[Steve83]

Your tow eyes went all the way to the frame!? So, no brackets.

Another way to say it is "the tow point is also the bumper bracket". Fewer pieces to fabricate; a stronger design; and safer.

Thoughts?

Ford never put a safety pin on Bronco swingaways, and I've never seen one of them come loose - even in a wreck. The '92-96 latch bolts on to the swing arm, so you might want to just use one from a JY on yours.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/894887/thumbnail/swingawaysexploded.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

Your tow eyes went all the way to the frame!? So, no brackets.

Another way to say it is "the tow point is also the bumper bracket". Fewer pieces to fabricate; a stronger design; and safer.

Thoughts?

Ford never put a safety pin on Bronco swingaways, and I've never seen one of them come loose - even in a wreck. The '92-96 latch bolts on to the swing arm, so you might want to just use one from a JY on yours.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/894887/thumbnail/swingawaysexploded.jpg

Steve - I'll get to the latch a bit later.

All - I've been under Big Blue a million times today to measure "one more thing", only to realize I need more or that didn't fit with other measurements. Makes me wonder why it isn't in on the lift.

Anyway, I've done some drawing and checking, and have come to the conclusion that Steve has been right all along - it is easier, and probably safer to put an air tank under the side of the bed. There's plenty of room and it is just a matter of finding the largest tank that'll fit easily. I have an 11 gallon that would fit, but it'll hang down a bit, so I need to find a different one. But that is for a later date.

As for the bumper, It is amazing how things look like they'll fit easily. First, here's my drawing of the underside of BB, showing the frame (as straight but isn't), bed, tailgate, and existing bumper:

Ok, add the tow eyes. These are 1" thick and 2 1/2" tall. The hole is, as shown, 1", and the eyes are modeled after my Smittybilt drawbar that takes a D-ring perfectly. It has a 1" thick tongue and a 1" hole.

And now add in the hitch. It'll weld to the inside of the eyes, and will also have pieces that bolt to the bottom of the frame in at least 2 of the 3 holes the existing hitch bolts into. The issue is that the 2 nearest holes are in a section of the frame that is straight, but the frame drops down before it gets to the 3rd hole, making it more difficult to get to that hole. So I'm thinking that being solidly welded to the eyes, which are bolted in with 4 more bolts will still be extremely solid.

And speaking of "solidly welded, the way the lower piece of the hitch attaches to the upper crosspiece on the existing hitch is via large pieces of angle on the top and bottom tying the two together. I plan to do that on this one, although it isn't shown.

But I'm wondering how to attach the crosspiece to the tow eyes. Will welding and fishplating top and bottom be enough?

Anyway, it is amazing how it'll all fit in the current bumper space. It will raise the hitch 6" and I'm already using a 4" drop. But I want to lower the rear of the truck at the same time by softening the suspension, so hopefully that will keep me from having to run too much drop on the draw bar.

Having said that, the 38 gallon tank I have to put back there will come 5 1/2" below the frame. I have the skid plates that were on Dad's truck and may be able to use them if I were to go with a smaller tank. And, I want to keep a reasonable amount of "angle of departure" in back, and lowering the rear or having a big tank back that isn't helping that.

[Nothing Special]

Another way to say it is "the tow point is also the bumper bracket". Fewer pieces to fabricate; a stronger design; and safer....

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say.

....On the latch, I'm not sure I understand which way it ran - vertically or horizontally.

I was able to dig up a couple of bad pictures of that latch (on the driver's side of the carrier). I don't know if they're worth 1000 words each, but at least a few hundred (in other words, maybe this'll explain it better than I can):

And I'm comparing the security of that kind of latch to the one Steve suggested. The over-center latch like you used is pretty secure, but there's no "safety" on it that I can think of. But on Steve's latch you could drill it for a safety pin like is used on a trailer hitch, and be pretty sure it won't open. Thoughts?

I never had any trouble with mine coming open. But if you are concerned, I think most latches like that probably could be pinned. Because it's an "over-center" clamp, that means the "U" does move past a pivot point for the handle. I think you could probably drill and pin the handle so the "U" couldn't swing past it. And some are probably already set up that way.

.... There's plenty of room and it is just a matter of finding the largest tank that'll fit easily. I have an 11 gallon that would fit, but it'll hang down a bit, so I need to find a different one....

There are pros and cons to a large tank. I don't know what size I would think was ideal, let alone what you will like. But I'll give you my experience.

My Bronco has a 2.5 gallon air tank and 33/10.50-15 tires. I air down to about 15 psi on the trails and then air back up to 30 psi on the roads. If I start with the tank full (100 psi) I can air the first tire up pretty fast, but the tank is down to about 30 psi at that point. So it drops down pretty low when I start airing up the second tire, and now I have to wait for the compressor to air up the tire AND the tank.

If I had a large enough tank I could air up all 4 tires before the tank was empty, but if I didn't make it, that last tire would take FOREVER.

In my case the air system is mainly for the "toad" brakes (when I'm flat-towing the Bronco) and the air tank is a good size for that (and about the biggest I can fit). So I'm not planning on experimenting on tank size for airing up.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Another way to say it is "the tow point is also the bumper bracket". Fewer pieces to fabricate; a stronger design; and safer....

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say.

....On the latch, I'm not sure I understand which way it ran - vertically or horizontally.

I was able to dig up a couple of bad pictures of that latch (on the driver's side of the carrier). I don't know if they're worth 1000 words each, but at least a few hundred (in other words, maybe this'll explain it better than I can):

And I'm comparing the security of that kind of latch to the one Steve suggested. The over-center latch like you used is pretty secure, but there's no "safety" on it that I can think of. But on Steve's latch you could drill it for a safety pin like is used on a trailer hitch, and be pretty sure it won't open. Thoughts?

I never had any trouble with mine coming open. But if you are concerned, I think most latches like that probably could be pinned. Because it's an "over-center" clamp, that means the "U" does move past a pivot point for the handle. I think you could probably drill and pin the handle so the "U" couldn't swing past it. And some are probably already set up that way.

.... There's plenty of room and it is just a matter of finding the largest tank that'll fit easily. I have an 11 gallon that would fit, but it'll hang down a bit, so I need to find a different one....

There are pros and cons to a large tank. I don't know what size I would think was ideal, let alone what you will like. But I'll give you my experience.

My Bronco has a 2.5 gallon air tank and 33/10.50-15 tires. I air down to about 15 psi on the trails and then air back up to 30 psi on the roads. If I start with the tank full (100 psi) I can air the first tire up pretty fast, but the tank is down to about 30 psi at that point. So it drops down pretty low when I start airing up the second tire, and now I have to wait for the compressor to air up the tire AND the tank.

If I had a large enough tank I could air up all 4 tires before the tank was empty, but if I didn't make it, that last tire would take FOREVER.

In my case the air system is mainly for the "toad" brakes (when I'm flat-towing the Bronco) and the air tank is a good size for that (and about the biggest I can fit). So I'm not planning on experimenting on tank size for airing up.

The pics helped a bunch, thanks.

On the air tank size, I understand the tradeoffs of too big of a tank vs too small of a tank. But I didn't have a good idea of how much air it takes per tire. Basically you are saying that 2 1/2 gallons did one tire. So, since your tires are roughly the same size as mine, a 10 gallon tank is about right to air up 4 tires.

The 11 gallon tank I have is just a bit too big, physically, to go in the spot I'm looking at since it hangs down more than I want it to do. Perhaps I won't find one that size that has the right dimensions, but a little bit smaller wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks, that helps.

 

[Gary Lewis]

The pics helped a bunch, thanks.

On the air tank size, I understand the tradeoffs of too big of a tank vs too small of a tank. But I didn't have a good idea of how much air it takes per tire. Basically you are saying that 2 1/2 gallons did one tire. So, since your tires are roughly the same size as mine, a 10 gallon tank is about right to air up 4 tires.

The 11 gallon tank I have is just a bit too big, physically, to go in the spot I'm looking at since it hangs down more than I want it to do. Perhaps I won't find one that size that has the right dimensions, but a little bit smaller wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks, that helps.

Did some more work on the bumper. And need your thoughts, please.

First, Here's the new "bumper", and it is 4" x 7" x 3/16" tubing. That size makes it essentially the same size front/rear as the top of the old bumper, but it doesn't have the piece that extends under the tailgate to prevent yuk from coming up there, so may need to have a piece added. The top back/right corner of the tubing is in the same spot as the original bumper, but it extends down 1 1/2" from what the original bumper did - you'll see why in a bit.

Also, I've increased the height of the tow eyes to 3 3/8" so their bottoms will be flush with the bottom of the frame. That allows me to use pieces of 2 1/2 x2 1/2 x 1/4" angle welded to the bottom of the eyes as well as to the bottom of the hitch cross piece (in blue). And the angle will bolt into the front two holes in the bottom of the frame, the red lines, where my hitch currently bolts. All in all, that significantly strengthens the hitch and the bumper.

Then comes the receiver part of the hitch - the tan bit added in this illustration. It has a piece of 3/16" plate (dark gray) bent and welded to the front of the cross piece and to the bottom of the receiver. And it has a piece of 2 1/2 x2 1/2 x 1/4" angle (dark gray) welded to the rear of the cross piece and to the top of the receiver. That's exactly how the hitch that is on the truck was made, so should be plenty solid.

An issue I need to consider is the height of the tow eyes. I don't see any reason to carry the 3 3/8" height all the way through the bumper, but it may be easier to leave them that size instead of cutting them down.

Another idea is to raise the bumper 3/16" to get gap above the tow eye and below the receiver to be equal. But that depends on the height of the tow eye where it comes through the bumper, so that will have to wait until I decide on the tow eye height.

But, for the moment I can turn my thoughts to the spare tire carrier and await your collective input.

[Nothing Special]

Did some more work on the bumper. And need your thoughts, please.

First, Here's the new "bumper", and it is 4" x 7" x 3/16" tubing. That size makes it essentially the same size front/rear as the top of the old bumper, but it doesn't have the piece that extends under the tailgate to prevent yuk from coming up there, so may need to have a piece added. The top back/right corner of the tubing is in the same spot as the original bumper, but it extends down 1 1/2" from what the original bumper did - you'll see why in a bit.

Also, I've increased the height of the tow eyes to 3 3/8" so their bottoms will be flush with the bottom of the frame. That allows me to use pieces of 2 1/2 x2 1/2 x 1/4" angle welded to the bottom of the eyes as well as to the bottom of the hitch cross piece (in blue). And the angle will bolt into the front two holes in the bottom of the frame, the red lines, where my hitch currently bolts. All in all, that significantly strengthens the hitch and the bumper.

Then comes the receiver part of the hitch - the tan bit added in this illustration. It has a piece of 3/16" plate (dark gray) bent and welded to the front of the cross piece and to the bottom of the receiver. And it has a piece of 2 1/2 x2 1/2 x 1/4" angle (dark gray) welded to the rear of the cross piece and to the top of the receiver. That's exactly how the hitch that is on the truck was made, so should be plenty solid.

An issue I need to consider is the height of the tow eyes. I don't see any reason to carry the 3 3/8" height all the way through the bumper, but it may be easier to leave them that size instead of cutting them down.

Another idea is to raise the bumper 3/16" to get gap above the tow eye and below the receiver to be equal. But that depends on the height of the tow eye where it comes through the bumper, so that will have to wait until I decide on the tow eye height.

But, for the moment I can turn my thoughts to the spare tire carrier and await your collective input.

If it were me (and once it was!) I'd definitely cut the eyes down. I think they look better if the "wall" is more even, so I'd go with the distance you have the hole center back from the end of the stock and just swing that radius to the top and bottom, and take that height through the bumper. It means making more chips, but it also means carrying less steel all the time.

Also when it was me, I aimed to center both the eyes and the receiver in the bumper. I was really trying to protect my departure angle. An F-250 has a much worse departure angle than an early Bronco, but it might not need it as much either. But still, if I were you I'd try to keep the bumper from hanging any lower than stock. Doing that would raise the receiver (also a good thing in my book) and would require some rethinking on the way you have it mounted in the front, but still shouldn't be too hard to do.

All that said, it's not me this time, and your plans certainly look like they'll work out well.

 

[Gary Lewis]

If it were me (and once it was!) I'd definitely cut the eyes down. I think they look better if the "wall" is more even, so I'd go with the distance you have the hole center back from the end of the stock and just swing that radius to the top and bottom, and take that height through the bumper. It means making more chips, but it also means carrying less steel all the time.

Also when it was me, I aimed to center both the eyes and the receiver in the bumper. I was really trying to protect my departure angle. An F-250 has a much worse departure angle than an early Bronco, but it might not need it as much either. But still, if I were you I'd try to keep the bumper from hanging any lower than stock. Doing that would raise the receiver (also a good thing in my book) and would require some rethinking on the way you have it mounted in the front, but still shouldn't be too hard to do.

All that said, it's not me this time, and your plans certainly look like they'll work out well.

Are you saying you liked the original tow eye height? Meaning 2 1/2"? That's what I was thinking I'd cut them down to, but I'm asking just making sure I understand.

On the hitch height, I see what you are saying. And if I come up with another way to secure the cross piece in addition to butt-welding it to the tow eye, then I can move the hitch up about an inch. That would probably let me go with 4 x 6 tubing, meaning the bottom of the bumper would go up an inch from where it is shown in today's drawing, and only be 1/2" lower than the stock bumper.

However, today's design already has the hitch about 5" higher than it currently is as it hangs way below the frame. And even if I raise it another inch I'll still have to figure out what rear tank I can use to have the bumper and not the skid plate be the limiting factor. So I have more work to do, both drawing and imagining as well as figuring out how low the 3 different tanks will hang.

Anyway, thanks bunches for the input. I really need all the help I can get.