85 460 dual tanks

[ArdWrknTrk]

"R" is the little Ranger.

Perhaps Haystack can find some markings on his tank that will help us.

Oh, that makes a lot more sense.

I would say the listings for "Super Duty" are the commercial chassis trucks, since 'Superduty' wasn't a thing until the 1999 MY 250/350 pickups.

[Haystack]

Oh, that makes a lot more sense.

I would say the listings for "Super Duty" are the commercial chassis trucks, since 'Superduty' wasn't a thing until the 1999 MY 250/350 pickups.

Sorry, I spaced the wheelbase question.

The front wheels are more narrow then the utility bed and dually, so getting a tape measure acrossed by myself was difficult, but I measured about 171", so it would be whatever the longest wheel base single cab is. 168" seems short, because I had the tape measure on the front inside wheel and laid it on the ground and walked it to the center of the rear axle, and I was getting between 171-173". When my dad or someone gets home, I will get a more exact measurement.

Now the the gas tank and frame, outside edges of the frame are 34" almost exactly, then there is right around 4" inside with the c-channel, meaning that the effective open space (like for a gas tank) is only about 26". There are also several wider sections of channel, up to a 6" wide flange around the spring perch and further up the frame.

I tried to get a rough measurement of the plastic rear tank, but it is much smaller then the skid plate, and rounded not square and very difficult to see.

There is a metal skid plate on both tanks, something I did not notice before, and both tanks are plastic. Front saddle tank is definitely the larger 19 gallon long tank, rear I couldn't find any markings without dropping the tank. It is very deep, at least 24" or so and I am guessing around 18" x 20" length and width, as my best guess to rounded corners peeking through the skid plates. There is no way you would ever get a spare tire under that gas tank, it's about flush with the bottom of the pumpkin. There is no way a 38 gallon or even a regular 19 gallon tank would ever fit.

Now that I know it's a plastic tank, it is very unlikely that the tanks rusted out and got full of gunk, so I think they just bypassed the fuel selector valve and ran only the rear tank. I am questioning the external fuel pump as well...

It should have a single electric pump in both tanks, but I did see some documentation saying that the rear tank had a normal pick up, and then a frame mounted pump, while the front tank has an internal pump.

But pretending the fuel selector valve went bad, you would think they would just wire in the front tank instead of replacing the fuel lines, but again, nothing in this truck or the way they fixed it makes any sense.

I also picked up a truck bet trailer for $100 to help my dad move with, and had no idea what bed/frame it was. Turns out it's a 73-79 bed, and it appears to be a 73-79 frame as well, and guess what? It has two spring perches with two sets of springs with a total of 11 leaf springs. It looks almost identical to my bucket truck cab/chassis frame and is also 34" wide.

*Edit* wheel base is right at 163".

[Haystack]

Sorry, I spaced the wheelbase question.

The front wheels are more narrow then the utility bed and dually, so getting a tape measure acrossed by myself was difficult, but I measured about 171", so it would be whatever the longest wheel base single cab is. 168" seems short, because I had the tape measure on the front inside wheel and laid it on the ground and walked it to the center of the rear axle, and I was getting between 171-173". When my dad or someone gets home, I will get a more exact measurement.

Now the the gas tank and frame, outside edges of the frame are 34" almost exactly, then there is right around 4" inside with the c-channel, meaning that the effective open space (like for a gas tank) is only about 26". There are also several wider sections of channel, up to a 6" wide flange around the spring perch and further up the frame.

I tried to get a rough measurement of the plastic rear tank, but it is much smaller then the skid plate, and rounded not square and very difficult to see.

There is a metal skid plate on both tanks, something I did not notice before, and both tanks are plastic. Front saddle tank is definitely the larger 19 gallon long tank, rear I couldn't find any markings without dropping the tank. It is very deep, at least 24" or so and I am guessing around 18" x 20" length and width, as my best guess to rounded corners peeking through the skid plates. There is no way you would ever get a spare tire under that gas tank, it's about flush with the bottom of the pumpkin. There is no way a 38 gallon or even a regular 19 gallon tank would ever fit.

Now that I know it's a plastic tank, it is very unlikely that the tanks rusted out and got full of gunk, so I think they just bypassed the fuel selector valve and ran only the rear tank. I am questioning the external fuel pump as well...

It should have a single electric pump in both tanks, but I did see some documentation saying that the rear tank had a normal pick up, and then a frame mounted pump, while the front tank has an internal pump.

But pretending the fuel selector valve went bad, you would think they would just wire in the front tank instead of replacing the fuel lines, but again, nothing in this truck or the way they fixed it makes any sense.

I also picked up a truck bet trailer for $100 to help my dad move with, and had no idea what bed/frame it was. Turns out it's a 73-79 bed, and it appears to be a 73-79 frame as well, and guess what? It has two spring perches with two sets of springs with a total of 11 leaf springs. It looks almost identical to my bucket truck cab/chassis frame and is also 34" wide.

*Edit* wheel base is right at 163".

Another thing to note, when I was looking for fuel systems, it listed a single 50ish gallon tank on one website, but no pictures, for an f-600 "rear plastic tank". I think it hung down under the rear cross member, and then back up to the frame in sort of a "u" shape.

And then the "standard" tank was listed as dual 19 gallon tanks.

I think the commercials narrow framed tricks probably used the parts and fuel systems from the larger f600 trucks, which might be why nothing is adding up.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Another thing to note, when I was looking for fuel systems, it listed a single 50ish gallon tank on one website, but no pictures, for an f-600 "rear plastic tank". I think it hung down under the rear cross member, and then back up to the frame in sort of a "u" shape.

And then the "standard" tank was listed as dual 19 gallon tanks.

I think the commercials narrow framed tricks probably used the parts and fuel systems from the larger f600 trucks, which might be why nothing is adding up.

I don't have a wiring diagram for the Super Duty trucks, but if it's similar to the 460 Hot Fuel Handling, then default for the switch valve is rear.

Maybe that's why it's set up for the aft tank???

You can see in the drawing above how the flanges get wider at the cross members.

I don't think 600/700 trucks are anywhere near the same chassis you have.

Perhaps Gary knows if we have a member familiar with Louisville Assembly...

 

[Gary Lewis]

Perhaps Gary knows if we have a member familiar with Louisville Assembly...

Sorry, I don't know.

[Haystack]

Got the front sending units/pump installed. I have not dropped the rear tank, I instead installed a fuel pressure regulator. Decided it would be easier then dropping the tank and replacing everything.

I am adding a new fuel selector switch, getting ready to splice all the fuel lines/wiring first thing in the morning.

I have gotten a ton done, the clutch was indeed shot, all friction material was missing on one side, and almost worn completely off on the other. Replaced the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel looked fine so I left it. Took it for a quick spin, clutch engages more like 1/2 way down instead of almost to the floor. No bad noises/vibrations.

Lots of little things here and there to do still. If the tanks work, I will be attempting an 800 mile road trip on Monday, wish me luck.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Got the front sending units/pump installed. I have not dropped the rear tank, I instead installed a fuel pressure regulator. Decided it would be easier then dropping the tank and replacing everything.

I am adding a new fuel selector switch, getting ready to splice all the fuel lines/wiring first thing in the morning.

I have gotten a ton done, the clutch was indeed shot, all friction material was missing on one side, and almost worn completely off on the other. Replaced the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel looked fine so I left it. Took it for a quick spin, clutch engages more like 1/2 way down instead of almost to the floor. No bad noises/vibrations.

Lots of little things here and there to do still. If the tanks work, I will be attempting an 800 mile road trip on Monday, wish me luck.

:nabble_crossed-fingers-20-pixel_orig: . Good luck!

I just asked the same, in another thread....

You've made progress!

Which brand/model switch valve are you going with?

800 miles?

That's a long drive with those gears!

Not that a line crew wouldn't go that far for disaster mutual response but unless I was making that kind of $$$$ I doubt I'd be heading down to the flatlands in a rig like yours.

Hope you have all the kinks worked out.

Let us know how she does or if there's any other way we can help. 🙂

 

[Gary Lewis]

Got the front sending units/pump installed. I have not dropped the rear tank, I instead installed a fuel pressure regulator. Decided it would be easier then dropping the tank and replacing everything.

I am adding a new fuel selector switch, getting ready to splice all the fuel lines/wiring first thing in the morning.

I have gotten a ton done, the clutch was indeed shot, all friction material was missing on one side, and almost worn completely off on the other. Replaced the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel looked fine so I left it. Took it for a quick spin, clutch engages more like 1/2 way down instead of almost to the floor. No bad noises/vibrations.

Lots of little things here and there to do still. If the tanks work, I will be attempting an 800 mile road trip on Monday, wish me luck.

Wow! 800 miles? Hope things go really well for you!

[Ifitaintbroke]

I've never seen a metal tank in one of these commercial chassis trucks. (that's not to say there never was one, I certainly learn something new every day)

That's why I've tagged Ralph, our resident long time counter monkey, to see what he has to say.

The 450 I dismembered definitely had a plastic mid-ship tank (I was standing on it!) but that was a '90's welding truck.

You can see the callout for 160"(?) WB with that tank.

I'd suspect the 6 port switch valve failed and it wasn't worth the nearly $400 Ford wanted for them to bother replacing it.

Like I said if you buy the right kit (electrically correct) you can find the Pollak valve on eBay for under $80 delivered.

You need to use the included pigtail and remove the plastic 'duckbill' style fuel line connectors, but they don't fail in my experience

Believe it or not, whilst rummaging through the parts system at work, I found a selector valve that looks almost identical to the ones on our trucks. It is listed as being for diesel, but I fail to see why Ford would have made 2 identical valves, but one for gas and the other for diesel. IIRC, it was only listed under one vehicle a 94(ish?) F-super duty 7.3. I'll have to find the part#. It's way too expensive to be practical, but I thought it was interesting. What we really need to do is find a way to get away from these stupid electric valves and use 1 or 2 manual valves. I've already worked out the electrical side of that. I might post on that later in my build thread...

[Gary Lewis]

Believe it or not, whilst rummaging through the parts system at work, I found a selector valve that looks almost identical to the ones on our trucks. It is listed as being for diesel, but I fail to see why Ford would have made 2 identical valves, but one for gas and the other for diesel. IIRC, it was only listed under one vehicle a 94(ish?) F-super duty 7.3. I'll have to find the part#. It's way too expensive to be practical, but I thought it was interesting. What we really need to do is find a way to get away from these stupid electric valves and use 1 or 2 manual valves. I've already worked out the electrical side of that. I might post on that later in my build thread...

There is a way, but it is expensive. However, it uses the latest of Ford's "maybe this will work" approaches to fuel systems.

I went with mid-90's tanks & fuel delivery modules. The FDMs have the switching and check valves built into them so there's no need for external valves, just tees in the supply and return lines.

But, the FDMs were designed for EFI so put out too much pressure, so a fuel pressure regulator is needed. And they have a different resistance range for the gauge's sending unit, so a Meter Match is needed to make the gauge read correctly.

As said, it is expensive to do a complete conversion, but the beauty is that not only does it work, you can get parts for it that won't break the bank.