Ski Boat with a 302

[grumpin]

Offer accepted. $400 + tax later...

Probably wasn't a financially great idea ... but strike when the iron's hot!

Nice! Sometimes on things like this you just have to bite the bullet and get it.

[ratdude747]

Nice! Sometimes on things like this you just have to bite the bullet and get it.

Seems that may be the case with the ignition too.

Took some pics yesterday (Yeah, I owe you all some pics!) to cross-reference distributor parts, and come to find that it actually uses a Prestolite distributor (more akin to old MOPAR), a variant of the IBM-7011 specifically. Which Pertronix does make an upgrade for, but it's only in Ignitor III:

https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pertronix-71581-ignitor-iii-adaptive-dwell-control-multiple-spark-with-digital-rev-limiter-prestolite-8-cyl?_pos=1&_sid=1d722e3e2&_ss=r

Save and spend I guess. Caps/rotors are a minor pain to source too I'm coming to find. But there are places that have them...

Money pit indeed... but maybe it'll be worth it? Maybe?

Edit- Actually, Pertronix's search is misleading. They do make an Ignitor II for it:

https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pertronix-91581-ignitor-ii-adaptive-dwell-control-prestolite-8-cyl-1

Most marine "wholsale" places have a blatantly rebadged version from Sierra Marine that's double the cost... yeah, I'll (eventually) get that direct from Pertronix!

[ratdude747]

Seems that may be the case with the ignition too.

Took some pics yesterday (Yeah, I owe you all some pics!) to cross-reference distributor parts, and come to find that it actually uses a Prestolite distributor (more akin to old MOPAR), a variant of the IBM-7011 specifically. Which Pertronix does make an upgrade for, but it's only in Ignitor III:

https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pertronix-71581-ignitor-iii-adaptive-dwell-control-multiple-spark-with-digital-rev-limiter-prestolite-8-cyl?_pos=1&_sid=1d722e3e2&_ss=r

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/money-flying-23_orig.png

Save and spend I guess. Caps/rotors are a minor pain to source too I'm coming to find. But there are places that have them...

Money pit indeed... but maybe it'll be worth it? Maybe? http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/money-mouth-face-23x23_orig.png

Edit- Actually, Pertronix's search is misleading. They do make an Ignitor II for it:

https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pertronix-91581-ignitor-ii-adaptive-dwell-control-prestolite-8-cyl-1

Most marine "wholsale" places have a blatantly rebadged version from Sierra Marine that's double the cost... yeah, I'll (eventually) get that direct from Pertronix!

Was supposed to get the carb today... but no, it was sent to the wrong post office and "forwarded". Must have gotten the wrong zip code (I'm 47250, it was sent to 47240.

Finally got the legal stuff knocked out too. Trailer took 4 tries to title, mainly due to errors in the Bill of Sale that had to be corrected and re-signed. It's fixed now though. Boat was a 1st try, but the registration number had to be reset due to the wrong HIN being originally used (Had a "B" swapped for an "8"). Due to this, I've ordered new marine vinyl numbers (in a font that's as close to the Starcraft wordmark as possible) and have spent the last few days using WD-40 and hard plastic scraps chiseling off the old numbers, tax stickers, and permits. Many years of tax stickers... oldest ones being 97, 95 (stuck to a 91), and multiple 93's... and have been a real pain to remove. The 93's are the worst... very stiff and brittle and as a result can't peel off at all. The 95/91 also a pain... and unlike real glass, I can't use metal for fear of messing up the Gel coat (I did try scoring one with a dull pocket knife to help wick the WD-40, it did leave very fine scratches... but nothing egregious). Current rules state only the current sticker can be displayed, and it has to be within 3" of the numbers... and the stubborn ones are further away. Of course!

Anyway, some pics and wiring (note that this was from over a week ago, before I pulled the carb and went to the show):

First, the engine badge:

From what I've read, the fuel is accurate (88 if running during the season, but 93 to avoid ethanol when winterizing) and I should run lead substitute due to having non-hardened valve seats (stock heads). Which is what the PO ran.

As for the oil, I've read that 15W-40 Diesel oil is good to run. Or 5W-40 synthetic?

Anyway, time for some ignition wiring. Original coil wiring:

Wiring diagram from Mercruiser:

As shown, the stock points use a resistance (ballast) wire. But for a pertronix setup, this needs to go away (since it's suspected to be bad)... and sure enough, I was able to find it between the coil and the choke heater. The wire is long and I didn't feel like undoing the whole harness, so after cutting the old crimps on both ends (and thankfully being able to ID the ballast wire from it's silvery conductor compared to the normal copper), I snipped it off flush with the main trunk of the harness.

But, we can't just put a wire in there... as the other coil + wire is tied directly to the drive of the starter relay (uses both relay control terminals). Since I want to keep start and run fully isolated, the solution is to solder a harness with isolating shottkey diodes to feed the coil:

I had these diodes leftover from a past project. They're SB3200s, good for 3A and up to 200V.

Then, I taped it up and spliced it into the existing wiring and crimped new spades on the carb choke wiring:

...and then retaped the rest of the wiring:

Note: I put the wrong spade gender on the choke ground. If it reaches without an extension, I'll recrimp, otherwise I'll make an extension and use such to change the gender (this also gives a good spot to add anything to the engine bay needing RUN power).

Now to save up for the Pertronix parts... and get rid of that nasty old coil and points. Eventually my goal will be to replace the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires, but other than the plugs (which I dunno on), other than being very old, none of them were strikingly bad. Supposedly the wires are non-interference (per the mercruiser markings on them) and are still supple, so may be OK for initial testing once I have the ignition converted?

While we're in the area: stern wiring:

Yeah, that's a crispy wire... found out it's for the stern light socket, whose wiring is long gone and corroded off. But it is still getting power when lights turned on. The lazy part of me wants to just tape it up and crimp new connections for a new (future) stern light, as the harness runs all the way to the dash and is very hard to access back there. Maybe I can find the wires in a more accessible area and cut/crimp new from there? The bow light is out but I think it can be serviced. The stern light itself is gone... the stock missing one had a cool tapered shape, but to be legal, I'll need an all-around light. Not to mention if I want a flag, per the pictures in the brochure (which I haven't scanned yet), the original light mast doubled as a flag pole.

Back there also is the wiring for the trim limit switch and trim sending unit. All still has the stock bullet splice connectors and I was able to ground out the trim sending signal to make the needle move full range on the dash. Actually, aside from the tachometer and volt meter (the latter is missing it's needle or has fallen out of the visible area), I was able to short out/open test all the gauges (trim, fuel, and temp; there is no oil gauge despite having both a switch and sending unit wired from the factory) and all responded correctly. Other than the sending units themselves (trim is toast, the rest is unknown), the gauges themselves seem to be fine (a relief). But I will eventually need to open the dash to deal with the volt meter... and to optionally replace the oil warning light/buzzer (light is busted out, buzzer sounds like death, just like bad bullnose seat belt buzzers!)

A final note: I'm considering a preemptive impeller replacement due to how long the boat has sat. Idea being that if I do that at the same time as the trim switch/sender replacement, I can pull the out drive off without having to move my trailer to the driveway to use my engine hoist (which needs a new lift ram from Harbor Freight), needed to access the grommet screws for the trim cables.

Thanks for reading this far... been a lot going on!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Was supposed to get the carb today... but no, it was sent to the wrong post office and "forwarded". Must have gotten the wrong zip code (I'm 47250, it was sent to 47240.

Finally got the legal stuff knocked out too. Trailer took 4 tries to title, mainly due to errors in the Bill of Sale that had to be corrected and re-signed. It's fixed now though. Boat was a 1st try, but the registration number had to be reset due to the wrong HIN being originally used (Had a "B" swapped for an "8"). Due to this, I've ordered new marine vinyl numbers (in a font that's as close to the Starcraft wordmark as possible) and have spent the last few days using WD-40 and hard plastic scraps chiseling off the old numbers, tax stickers, and permits. Many years of tax stickers... oldest ones being 97, 95 (stuck to a 91), and multiple 93's... and have been a real pain to remove. The 93's are the worst... very stiff and brittle and as a result can't peel off at all. The 95/91 also a pain... and unlike real glass, I can't use metal for fear of messing up the Gel coat (I did try scoring one with a dull pocket knife to help wick the WD-40, it did leave very fine scratches... but nothing egregious). Current rules state only the current sticker can be displayed, and it has to be within 3" of the numbers... and the stubborn ones are further away. Of course!

Anyway, some pics and wiring (note that this was from over a week ago, before I pulled the carb and went to the show):

First, the engine badge:

From what I've read, the fuel is accurate (88 if running during the season, but 93 to avoid ethanol when winterizing) and I should run lead substitute due to having non-hardened valve seats (stock heads). Which is what the PO ran.

As for the oil, I've read that 15W-40 Diesel oil is good to run. Or 5W-40 synthetic?

Anyway, time for some ignition wiring. Original coil wiring:

Wiring diagram from Mercruiser:

As shown, the stock points use a resistance (ballast) wire. But for a pertronix setup, this needs to go away (since it's suspected to be bad)... and sure enough, I was able to find it between the coil and the choke heater. The wire is long and I didn't feel like undoing the whole harness, so after cutting the old crimps on both ends (and thankfully being able to ID the ballast wire from it's silvery conductor compared to the normal copper), I snipped it off flush with the main trunk of the harness.

But, we can't just put a wire in there... as the other coil + wire is tied directly to the drive of the starter relay (uses both relay control terminals). Since I want to keep start and run fully isolated, the solution is to solder a harness with isolating shottkey diodes to feed the coil:

I had these diodes leftover from a past project. They're SB3200s, good for 3A and up to 200V.

Then, I taped it up and spliced it into the existing wiring and crimped new spades on the carb choke wiring:

...and then retaped the rest of the wiring:

Note: I put the wrong spade gender on the choke ground. If it reaches without an extension, I'll recrimp, otherwise I'll make an extension and use such to change the gender (this also gives a good spot to add anything to the engine bay needing RUN power).

Now to save up for the Pertronix parts... and get rid of that nasty old coil and points. Eventually my goal will be to replace the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires, but other than the plugs (which I dunno on), other than being very old, none of them were strikingly bad. Supposedly the wires are non-interference (per the mercruiser markings on them) and are still supple, so may be OK for initial testing once I have the ignition converted?

While we're in the area: stern wiring:

Yeah, that's a crispy wire... found out it's for the stern light socket, whose wiring is long gone and corroded off. But it is still getting power when lights turned on. The lazy part of me wants to just tape it up and crimp new connections for a new (future) stern light, as the harness runs all the way to the dash and is very hard to access back there. Maybe I can find the wires in a more accessible area and cut/crimp new from there? The bow light is out but I think it can be serviced. The stern light itself is gone... the stock missing one had a cool tapered shape, but to be legal, I'll need an all-around light. Not to mention if I want a flag, per the pictures in the brochure (which I haven't scanned yet), the original light mast doubled as a flag pole.

Back there also is the wiring for the trim limit switch and trim sending unit. All still has the stock bullet splice connectors and I was able to ground out the trim sending signal to make the needle move full range on the dash. Actually, aside from the tachometer and volt meter (the latter is missing it's needle or has fallen out of the visible area), I was able to short out/open test all the gauges (trim, fuel, and temp; there is no oil gauge despite having both a switch and sending unit wired from the factory) and all responded correctly. Other than the sending units themselves (trim is toast, the rest is unknown), the gauges themselves seem to be fine (a relief). But I will eventually need to open the dash to deal with the volt meter... and to optionally replace the oil warning light/buzzer (light is busted out, buzzer sounds like death, just like bad bullnose seat belt buzzers!)

A final note: I'm considering a preemptive impeller replacement due to how long the boat has sat. Idea being that if I do that at the same time as the trim switch/sender replacement, I can pull the out drive off without having to move my trailer to the driveway to use my engine hoist (which needs a new lift ram from Harbor Freight), needed to access the grommet screws for the trim cables.

Thanks for reading this far... been a lot going on!

Progress! And it is good.

Are you going to try to start the engine before getting the new ignition stuff? If not the late delivery of the carb won’t be a problem.

Glad you are going gently on the gelcoat. It is hard to repair and almost impossible to get the color right. But you can use polish or compound to take some of the weathering away so the spots that have been protected by the decals aren’t as noticeable.

Last, IMHO crimp connections shouldn’t be used on boats - unless you solder after crimping.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Was supposed to get the carb today... but no, it was sent to the wrong post office and "forwarded". Must have gotten the wrong zip code (I'm 47250, it was sent to 47240.

Finally got the legal stuff knocked out too. Trailer took 4 tries to title, mainly due to errors in the Bill of Sale that had to be corrected and re-signed. It's fixed now though. Boat was a 1st try, but the registration number had to be reset due to the wrong HIN being originally used (Had a "B" swapped for an "8"). Due to this, I've ordered new marine vinyl numbers (in a font that's as close to the Starcraft wordmark as possible) and have spent the last few days using WD-40 and hard plastic scraps chiseling off the old numbers, tax stickers, and permits. Many years of tax stickers... oldest ones being 97, 95 (stuck to a 91), and multiple 93's... and have been a real pain to remove. The 93's are the worst... very stiff and brittle and as a result can't peel off at all. The 95/91 also a pain... and unlike real glass, I can't use metal for fear of messing up the Gel coat (I did try scoring one with a dull pocket knife to help wick the WD-40, it did leave very fine scratches... but nothing egregious). Current rules state only the current sticker can be displayed, and it has to be within 3" of the numbers... and the stubborn ones are further away. Of course!

Anyway, some pics and wiring (note that this was from over a week ago, before I pulled the carb and went to the show):

First, the engine badge:

From what I've read, the fuel is accurate (88 if running during the season, but 93 to avoid ethanol when winterizing) and I should run lead substitute due to having non-hardened valve seats (stock heads). Which is what the PO ran.

As for the oil, I've read that 15W-40 Diesel oil is good to run. Or 5W-40 synthetic?

Anyway, time for some ignition wiring. Original coil wiring:

Wiring diagram from Mercruiser:

As shown, the stock points use a resistance (ballast) wire. But for a pertronix setup, this needs to go away (since it's suspected to be bad)... and sure enough, I was able to find it between the coil and the choke heater. The wire is long and I didn't feel like undoing the whole harness, so after cutting the old crimps on both ends (and thankfully being able to ID the ballast wire from it's silvery conductor compared to the normal copper), I snipped it off flush with the main trunk of the harness.

But, we can't just put a wire in there... as the other coil + wire is tied directly to the drive of the starter relay (uses both relay control terminals). Since I want to keep start and run fully isolated, the solution is to solder a harness with isolating shottkey diodes to feed the coil:

I had these diodes leftover from a past project. They're SB3200s, good for 3A and up to 200V.

Then, I taped it up and spliced it into the existing wiring and crimped new spades on the carb choke wiring:

...and then retaped the rest of the wiring:

Note: I put the wrong spade gender on the choke ground. If it reaches without an extension, I'll recrimp, otherwise I'll make an extension and use such to change the gender (this also gives a good spot to add anything to the engine bay needing RUN power).

Now to save up for the Pertronix parts... and get rid of that nasty old coil and points. Eventually my goal will be to replace the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires, but other than the plugs (which I dunno on), other than being very old, none of them were strikingly bad. Supposedly the wires are non-interference (per the mercruiser markings on them) and are still supple, so may be OK for initial testing once I have the ignition converted?

While we're in the area: stern wiring:

Yeah, that's a crispy wire... found out it's for the stern light socket, whose wiring is long gone and corroded off. But it is still getting power when lights turned on. The lazy part of me wants to just tape it up and crimp new connections for a new (future) stern light, as the harness runs all the way to the dash and is very hard to access back there. Maybe I can find the wires in a more accessible area and cut/crimp new from there? The bow light is out but I think it can be serviced. The stern light itself is gone... the stock missing one had a cool tapered shape, but to be legal, I'll need an all-around light. Not to mention if I want a flag, per the pictures in the brochure (which I haven't scanned yet), the original light mast doubled as a flag pole.

Back there also is the wiring for the trim limit switch and trim sending unit. All still has the stock bullet splice connectors and I was able to ground out the trim sending signal to make the needle move full range on the dash. Actually, aside from the tachometer and volt meter (the latter is missing it's needle or has fallen out of the visible area), I was able to short out/open test all the gauges (trim, fuel, and temp; there is no oil gauge despite having both a switch and sending unit wired from the factory) and all responded correctly. Other than the sending units themselves (trim is toast, the rest is unknown), the gauges themselves seem to be fine (a relief). But I will eventually need to open the dash to deal with the volt meter... and to optionally replace the oil warning light/buzzer (light is busted out, buzzer sounds like death, just like bad bullnose seat belt buzzers!)

A final note: I'm considering a preemptive impeller replacement due to how long the boat has sat. Idea being that if I do that at the same time as the trim switch/sender replacement, I can pull the out drive off without having to move my trailer to the driveway to use my engine hoist (which needs a new lift ram from Harbor Freight), needed to access the grommet screws for the trim cables.

Thanks for reading this far... been a lot going on!

Well Larry it seems like you have a good handle on the wiring (that splice does look extra crispy! )

I run 15W40 diesel oil in my truck during summer. I doubt you'll be out in the boat below freezing, and that's where the 1st # (W = winter) comes in. 15W XX is measured at -20C (-4F)

SAE J300 shows where oils fall at minimum temps and the high number at 100°C.

Maybe you could try a hair dryer or heat gun to soften up the glue on those registration stickers?

[ratdude747]

Well Larry it seems like you have a good handle on the wiring (that splice does look extra crispy! )

I run 15W40 diesel oil in my truck during summer. I doubt you'll be out in the boat below freezing, and that's where the 1st # (W = winter) comes in. 15W XX is measured at -20C (-4F)

SAE J300 shows where oils fall at minimum temps and the high number at 100°C.

Maybe you could try a hair dryer or heat gun to soften up the glue on those registration stickers?

The thing I read was back in the 70's the VII's used in multi-grade oils weren't very good for heavy use, which was why straight grade was called out for marine use. However, modern oils don't have this issue (long story, see Bob the Oil Guy), which (presumably) is why a multi-grade 40 is what most suggest for these motors.

The crimps I added are solid. Not sure what the issue with marine use is. I've always been told that solder improves poor crimp connections and worsens good ones. All the factory wiring is crimped, no solder.

Not going to try to start without the upgraded ignition. Afraid the flyback of the points system will smoke the diodes.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The thing I read was back in the 70's the VII's used in multi-grade oils weren't very good for heavy use, which was why straight grade was called out for marine use. However, modern oils don't have this issue (long story, see Bob the Oil Guy), which (presumably) is why a multi-grade 40 is what most suggest for these motors.

The crimps I added are solid. Not sure what the issue with marine use is. I've always been told that solder improves poor crimp connections and worsens good ones. All the factory wiring is crimped, no solder.

Not going to try to start without the upgraded ignition. Afraid the flyback of the points system will smoke the diodes.

I was commenting on the red splice in the rear wiring, but maybe I can't see it well on my phone?

Lubricant technology and additive packages have certainly come a LONG way in 50 years (but still the smell of castor based 2-stroke oil brings me back!)

Marine engines tend to run at pretty steady rpm and loads unless you're trying to pop skiers up.

I think modern multi viscosity oils will be fine. Castrol makes a few grades of their GTX which they claim have meaningful amounts of ZDDP, including 10W-40 and a 15W-40 diesel grade meeting CK-4. A guy over on BITOG showing Blackstone #'s zinc over 1,100 and phosphorus over 1,000. (make what you want of that)

[Gary Lewis]

The thing I read was back in the 70's the VII's used in multi-grade oils weren't very good for heavy use, which was why straight grade was called out for marine use. However, modern oils don't have this issue (long story, see Bob the Oil Guy), which (presumably) is why a multi-grade 40 is what most suggest for these motors.

The crimps I added are solid. Not sure what the issue with marine use is. I've always been told that solder improves poor crimp connections and worsens good ones. All the factory wiring is crimped, no solder.

Not going to try to start without the upgraded ignition. Afraid the flyback of the points system will smoke the diodes.

There are several types of crimping tools. The ones I won’t use without soldering are the cheap ones that double as strippers.

But the ratcheting or hydraulic crimpers do a good job if you have to correct die and the connection won’t need soldering.

However, I always use adhesive-lined heat shrink over any connection.

[ratdude747]

There are several types of crimping tools. The ones I won’t use without soldering are the cheap ones that double as strippers.

But the ratcheting or hydraulic crimpers do a good job if you have to correct die and the connection won’t need soldering.

However, I always use adhesive-lined heat shrink over any connection.

One of my two crimpers I use is part of a wire stripper, but not the cheap kind. Specifically, a Greenlee 1950-ss; it's my daily carry at work for crimping wiring on equipment and in cabinets.

The other is a pair of Klein 10005 crimping pliers which has a similar crimping tooth; it's good for heavier wires (#10, etc.) and also good for uninsulated crimps.

I've never had an affinity for ratchet crimpers on round crimps. Too bulky and not enough feedback... I want to feel the crimp being formed. Not to mention half of the ones I've tried always made bad crimps...

I have heat shrink butt splice crimps (with adhesive) but I reserve those primarily for external use. Since it was going to get taped over (using Scotch 33, not the cheap junk) and didn't feel like running a extension cord across my yard (or fiddling with my butane iron/heat shrink gun), I opted to use a non-shrink insulated butt splice.

[ratdude747]

I was commenting on the red splice in the rear wiring, but maybe I can't see it well on my phone?

Lubricant technology and additive packages have certainly come a LONG way in 50 years (but still the smell of castor based 2-stroke oil brings me back!)

Marine engines tend to run at pretty steady rpm and loads unless you're trying to pop skiers up.

I think modern multi viscosity oils will be fine. Castrol makes a few grades of their GTX which they claim have meaningful amounts of ZDDP, including 10W-40 and a 15W-40 diesel grade meeting CK-4. A guy over on BITOG showing Blackstone #'s zinc over 1,100 and phosphorus over 1,000. (make what you want of that)

That's the fried connector that used to go to the stern light that I was referring to.

I didn't think high ZDDP was needed once the lifters were broken in?