Restore of my 1986 Bronco XLT

[85lebaront2]

I don't believe it is necessary to change, or "flash", the ECU if you start with the right one - and if you have all the bits it is expecting.

You effectively have a 351 so if you found an ECU for a 351W/E4OD combo that would work. However, it is going to expect you to have all the emissions equipment, like EGR and vapor recovery. So if you don't have that then you will have to reprogram the ECU.

I don't have EGR or the vapor recovery so I had to reprogram an ECU. And I'll do that for Dad's truck also. Plus Steve/Foxford33 will have me do one for his Wagoneer.

Bill - Could you flash one for Rene? Is that ok with Core Tuning? You'd obviously have to buy a token, but...

Yes, I have one here now I need to do for Prashant, I got all his underhood wiring done, and yes it takes a token to do it, and I would probably have to use one of my spares (I have one in Darth, one backup, one virgin 351/E4OD one and one FEZ3, stock 1996 460/E4OD). If he needs/wants the VIN programmed in, it takes 2 tokens.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I have one here now I need to do for Prashant, I got all his underhood wiring done, and yes it takes a token to do it, and I would probably have to use one of my spares (I have one in Darth, one backup, one virgin 351/E4OD one and one FEZ3, stock 1996 460/E4OD). If he needs/wants the VIN programmed in, it takes 2 tokens.

Strange, I put my VIN in w/o another token. It is cool! The thing says it is a '96 F250 w/a 460 but it gives an '85 VIN.

[85lebaront2]

Strange, I put my VIN in w/o another token. It is cool! The thing says it is a '96 F250 w/a 460 but it gives an '85 VIN.

Darth's is the same way, says 1996 but has Darth's nice imported VIN (Oakville, Ontario). Apparently DOT or someone raised the question of being able to change the VIN easily.

[Gary Lewis]

Darth's is the same way, says 1996 but has Darth's nice imported VIN (Oakville, Ontario). Apparently DOT or someone raised the question of being able to change the VIN easily.

So they are now requiring another token. No big deal, but good to know.

[ReneH]

If you contact: http://www.coretuning.net/ and let them know Gary and I recommended them, they can suggest what is available in Europe (hopefully). I have an EEC-V box here from a 1996 E250 351W and E4OD. The hardware code is ML1-441 which identifies it as having the needed circuits for an electronic controlled transmission, either a 4R70/75W or an E4OD.

The 4R70/75W designation is 4 - 4 speed, R - rear wheel drive (as opposed to F - front wheel drive) 70 or 75 mkg input torque, W - wide ratio. The E4OD was upgraded and re-designated as a 4R100. The gear ratios in an AOD are 1st 2.40:1, 2nd 1.47:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.67:1; E4OD ratios are 1st 2.71:1, 2nd 1.54:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.71:1; 4R70/75W 1st 2.84:1, 2nd 1.55:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.70:1; your present C6 ratios are 1st 2.46:1, 2nd 1.46:1, 3rd 1:1.

For a rough idea on torque converter slippage at highway speeds (air drag should be similar) 3rd gear in Darth with a C6 engine rpm was 2700 at 55 mph, E4OD in 4th, lockup 1700 rpm, in 3rd torque converter 2700 rpm, 3rd lockup, 2200 rpm, so 500 rpm is lost and shows up as heat.

Hi Bill and Gary,

first of all thanks for all the information and experience that I've got here again!

I try to sort what I've read in two topics:

1. Transmission

So regarding to the ratios, the AOD is close to the C6 with an additional overdrive.

A lockup makes much sense at higher rpm. As far as I have understood, also the AOD

has a lockup, but a mechanical one.

For my further way, I'll serach for an E4OD or 4R70, here in Germany to avoid high

shipping cost.

I also have to look for the right parts to change the display of the gears in my cockpit and the right cable for the gear-set-lever.

EEC-V conversion

Bill: you have an ECU that will fit for me in your stock!? So if you are willing to sell it to me,

you maybe can send me an email about the cost.

As an alternative, I can look at rockauto, what's available.

VIN: What use has it to flash the VIN inside the ECU?

EGR: I also have removed all emission control, but I have done a "fake-box" that simulates this components for my EEC-IV. Maybe this will work also for the EEC-V? But on the other hand, re-flashing would be the clean way to do it and saves me the space for other things.

Regarding the MAF, I can change my intake hoses to a single intake that will end with a Y-hose to the current dual stock throttle body. The MAF can be added inside the single hose before. It's like the setup in my 1991 BMW 320i.

[Gary Lewis]

Hi Bill and Gary,

first of all thanks for all the information and experience that I've got here again!

I try to sort what I've read in two topics:

1. Transmission

So regarding to the ratios, the AOD is close to the C6 with an additional overdrive.

A lockup makes much sense at higher rpm. As far as I have understood, also the AOD

has a lockup, but a mechanical one.

For my further way, I'll serach for an E4OD or 4R70, here in Germany to avoid high

shipping cost.

I also have to look for the right parts to change the display of the gears in my cockpit and the right cable for the gear-set-lever.

EEC-V conversion

Bill: you have an ECU that will fit for me in your stock!? So if you are willing to sell it to me,

you maybe can send me an email about the cost.

As an alternative, I can look at rockauto, what's available.

VIN: What use has it to flash the VIN inside the ECU?

EGR: I also have removed all emission control, but I have done a "fake-box" that simulates this components for my EEC-IV. Maybe this will work also for the EEC-V? But on the other hand, re-flashing would be the clean way to do it and saves me the space for other things.

Regarding the MAF, I can change my intake hoses to a single intake that will end with a Y-hose to the current dual stock throttle body. The MAF can be added inside the single hose before. It's like the setup in my 1991 BMW 320i.

Yes, you are on the right track.

Transmission: Don't forget that the E4OD is about the length of an aircraft carrier and you'll need new front and rear driveshafts as well as a new crossmember. But the 4R70 is the same length of the C6 and AOD. And speaking of the AOD, my preference would be to go with an upgraded 4R70 if you are going EEC-V since you then have the ability to change the shift and lock/unlock points via programming in the ECU.

As for the gear ratios, go to the page at Documentation/Driveline/Calculators and you'll see that spreadsheet is loaded with the gear ratios of all of the transmissions but the 4R70. And you can load them into the Other column where the numbers are blue. Then you can compare RPMs with each of the transmissions at any MPH or RPM.

Programming: Speaking of that, how au fait are you with computers? I ask because you may want to do your own "programming" since otherwise you'll have to be shipping computers back and forth to Bill to get simple little things changed. And that will cost both money and time.

To do it you'll need a Windows laptop with at least two, and preferably three, USB ports. And you'll have to buy both Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable. But once you have that Bill and/or I can walk you through how to use it. That would allow you to tweak the tune to fit your needs, like shift points and lock/unlock points. But you'd still probably want Bill to set the ECU up initially.

As for the VIN, having the ECU tell someone the correct VIN might save a lot of explanation at some point in time. Otherwise the ECU will give the VIN of a different vehicle, which might raise a lot of questions.

EEC-V: You can use the same air filter, add the MAF, and then use stock EEC-V tubing to the throttle body - assuming you put the air filter in the stock location. But I don't know for sure if your EGR-faking box will be needed, or even work, with EEC-V. However you can turn that off in the setup.

But there is going to be a fair amount of rewiring. You'll have to add the wires to the MAF. And you'll have to add the OBD-II port. Plus the conversion to the 104-pin connector, and the pins are much smaller so you'll have to change them out or have an adaptor. But you did what you have now and it works, so you can do it.

[ReneH]

Yes, you are on the right track.

Transmission: Don't forget that the E4OD is about the length of an aircraft carrier and you'll need new front and rear driveshafts as well as a new crossmember. But the 4R70 is the same length of the C6 and AOD. And speaking of the AOD, my preference would be to go with an upgraded 4R70 if you are going EEC-V since you then have the ability to change the shift and lock/unlock points via programming in the ECU.

As for the gear ratios, go to the page at Documentation/Driveline/Calculators and you'll see that spreadsheet is loaded with the gear ratios of all of the transmissions but the 4R70. And you can load them into the Other column where the numbers are blue. Then you can compare RPMs with each of the transmissions at any MPH or RPM.

Programming: Speaking of that, how au fait are you with computers? I ask because you may want to do your own "programming" since otherwise you'll have to be shipping computers back and forth to Bill to get simple little things changed. And that will cost both money and time.

To do it you'll need a Windows laptop with at least two, and preferably three, USB ports. And you'll have to buy both Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable. But once you have that Bill and/or I can walk you through how to use it. That would allow you to tweak the tune to fit your needs, like shift points and lock/unlock points. But you'd still probably want Bill to set the ECU up initially.

As for the VIN, having the ECU tell someone the correct VIN might save a lot of explanation at some point in time. Otherwise the ECU will give the VIN of a different vehicle, which might raise a lot of questions.

EEC-V: You can use the same air filter, add the MAF, and then use stock EEC-V tubing to the throttle body - assuming you put the air filter in the stock location. But I don't know for sure if your EGR-faking box will be needed, or even work, with EEC-V. However you can turn that off in the setup.

But there is going to be a fair amount of rewiring. You'll have to add the wires to the MAF. And you'll have to add the OBD-II port. Plus the conversion to the 104-pin connector, and the pins are much smaller so you'll have to change them out or have an adaptor. But you did what you have now and it works, so you can do it.

Hi Gary,

Ok, so I should prefer the 4R70. I will see, what's available here in Germany...if necessary it will buy an AOD and strengthen it. I think this also will work with the EEC-V.

About programming, I'm good in visual basic and also C++. I've progrmmed some database applications and also custom microcontroller setups for LED drivers. So I think I can handle it with some advice...

I don't use the stock air filter...I have made a custom cold-air intake. But this is easily adoptable.

I don't worry about the re-wiring. That's one of my specialities...

So the next way to go for me is:

1. Repair the rear axle to get rid if the axial play.

2. Install the parking heater.

3. Find/get an EEC-V and a MAF and get help for reprogramming.

4. Find, buy and overhaul a 4R70 transmission.

I think this will be the best way to go.

I also have to check my 4WD as we're heading straight to winter. Last time I've activated it, the front axle or differential has made strange sounds...

[Gary Lewis]

Hi Gary,

Ok, so I should prefer the 4R70. I will see, what's available here in Germany...if necessary it will buy an AOD and strengthen it. I think this also will work with the EEC-V.

About programming, I'm good in visual basic and also C++. I've progrmmed some database applications and also custom microcontroller setups for LED drivers. So I think I can handle it with some advice...

I don't use the stock air filter...I have made a custom cold-air intake. But this is easily adoptable.

I don't worry about the re-wiring. That's one of my specialities...

So the next way to go for me is:

1. Repair the rear axle to get rid if the axial play.

2. Install the parking heater.

3. Find/get an EEC-V and a MAF and get help for reprogramming.

4. Find, buy and overhaul a 4R70 transmission.

I think this will be the best way to go.

I also have to check my 4WD as we're heading straight to winter. Last time I've activated it, the front axle or differential has made strange sounds...

Yes, an AOD will work with EEC-V, but you'll need to get an ECU for a manual transmission as one for an auto will get its knickers in a twist when the RPM doesn't change when it tells the transmission to shift.

I'd think a 4R70 would be easier to find than an AOD, but I don't really know. And if you find one you might not have to have it rebuilt as it might be fine with your engine. On the other hand, I doubt a stock AOD would. But maybe you should get others opinions as I don't really know.

As for programming the ECU, you don't have to write any code. Binary Editor does everything for you and you just select options, put in parameters, etc. So if you know your way around a computer enough to code in Basic or C++ then you should be fine.

But I'd still suggest that Bill set the ECU up initially as he knows how to do that quite well. Then if you have Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable you can look at the setup, ask questions about what to change and what the changes will do, and then make the proper changes to get the effect you are looking for, like changing the shift points or lock/unlock points on the transmission. That would include changing the target AFR at various points in the engine load table, changing idle RPM, dashpot values, and many, many more.

[85lebaront2]

Yes, an AOD will work with EEC-V, but you'll need to get an ECU for a manual transmission as one for an auto will get its knickers in a twist when the RPM doesn't change when it tells the transmission to shift.

I'd think a 4R70 would be easier to find than an AOD, but I don't really know. And if you find one you might not have to have it rebuilt as it might be fine with your engine. On the other hand, I doubt a stock AOD would. But maybe you should get others opinions as I don't really know.

As for programming the ECU, you don't have to write any code. Binary Editor does everything for you and you just select options, put in parameters, etc. So if you know your way around a computer enough to code in Basic or C++ then you should be fine.

But I'd still suggest that Bill set the ECU up initially as he knows how to do that quite well. Then if you have Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable you can look at the setup, ask questions about what to change and what the changes will do, and then make the proper changes to get the effect you are looking for, like changing the shift points or lock/unlock points on the transmission. That would include changing the target AFR at various points in the engine load table, changing idle RPM, dashpot values, and many, many more.

One for a C6 will work fine and have the idle dashpot in its program.

[Gary Lewis]

One for a C6 will work fine and have the idle dashpot in its program.

Good point, Bill. And the dashpot will be needed on an auto. (Sure is a pain on a manual though.)