Gary Lewis Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 So, today I've done a photo of my ECU: So its: E9TF-12A650-AB1B Well, we have a match and it isn't what you wanted. That ECU works with a C6, not an E4OD. In fact, since the C6 doesn't require electronic controls I'd bet yours doesn't have that capability as Ford left things that weren't needed out to save money. Here are the two calibration parts lists that used it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 Well, we have a match and it isn't what you wanted. That ECU works with a C6, not an E4OD. In fact, since the C6 doesn't require electronic controls I'd bet yours doesn't have that capability as Ford left things that weren't needed out to save money. Here are the two calibration parts lists that used it: Ok, that's no problem for me, right now. I'm already looking for an AOD or a 4R70. I think both will also work quite good for the future. The current plan is to get a transmission with overdrive (AOD with strength kit or 4R70) to save fuel for longer distances. The second goal are new aluminum heads, new intake an plenum with single throttle body, in combination with EEC-V and MAF. Does this provide any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Ok, that's no problem for me, right now. I'm already looking for an AOD or a 4R70. I think both will also work quite good for the future. The current plan is to get a transmission with overdrive (AOD with strength kit or 4R70) to save fuel for longer distances. The second goal are new aluminum heads, new intake an plenum with single throttle body, in combination with EEC-V and MAF. Does this provide any sense? First, I'm pretty sure a 4R70 also requires electronic control. So you'd be required to find another ECU or convert to EEC-V. Second, while I spent the money and changed to a ZF5 in Big Blue and an E4OD in Dad's truck, I'm not sure I'll ever save enough money to make it worthwhile. However I realize that your price of fuel is far higher than ours, but so is the price of a new transmission. Still, the quieter operation by reducing engine RPM is worth something. So the finances aren't the only consideration. As for the aluminum heads, MAF, and EEC-V, if you are going to do that then I'd do that before doing the transmission. That way you could go for a 4R70 or an E4OD instead of the AOD. But again, I seriously doubt any of this will pay out via fuel savings in any reasonable timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 First, I'm pretty sure a 4R70 also requires electronic control. So you'd be required to find another ECU or convert to EEC-V. Second, while I spent the money and changed to a ZF5 in Big Blue and an E4OD in Dad's truck, I'm not sure I'll ever save enough money to make it worthwhile. However I realize that your price of fuel is far higher than ours, but so is the price of a new transmission. Still, the quieter operation by reducing engine RPM is worth something. So the finances aren't the only consideration. As for the aluminum heads, MAF, and EEC-V, if you are going to do that then I'd do that before doing the transmission. That way you could go for a 4R70 or an E4OD instead of the AOD. But again, I seriously doubt any of this will pay out via fuel savings in any reasonable timeframe. It's not only the money...it's also the rpm for me. With my current setup I think I can drive up to 90 mph and the engine still wants to do more. The feeling is that the car wants to go forward more and more! Also the point of cost is a point. As currently seeable, I can get an AOD for about 900 Euro plus the rework kit, maybe 1500 Euro. Plus the work needed. Ic can work atvthe Trans while driving the car. As changing the heads and the ECU, I'll need the car standing more time. And as far as I know, it also will be more expensive. As for the price of gasoline...we currently reached a low price of about 6.43 USD per gallon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 First, I'm pretty sure a 4R70 also requires electronic control. So you'd be required to find another ECU or convert to EEC-V. Second, while I spent the money and changed to a ZF5 in Big Blue and an E4OD in Dad's truck, I'm not sure I'll ever save enough money to make it worthwhile. However I realize that your price of fuel is far higher than ours, but so is the price of a new transmission. Still, the quieter operation by reducing engine RPM is worth something. So the finances aren't the only consideration. As for the aluminum heads, MAF, and EEC-V, if you are going to do that then I'd do that before doing the transmission. That way you could go for a 4R70 or an E4OD instead of the AOD. But again, I seriously doubt any of this will pay out via fuel savings in any reasonable timeframe. To ask the question in the other direction: Is it possible/rational to swap to the EEC-V and an E4OD or 4R70 without changing the heads and the intake? I think adding a MAF inside my intake won't be a problem, if this is the only thing I've to add. I also can easily change the wiring of my injectors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 To ask the question in the other direction: Is it possible/rational to swap to the EEC-V and an E4OD or 4R70 without changing the heads and the intake? I think adding a MAF inside my intake won't be a problem, if this is the only thing I've to add. I also can easily change the wiring of my injectors... Yes, it is certainly possible to go to EEC-V w/o changing out the heads. And you could change the heads later if you thought you needed to do so. But there are other things beyond the MAF sensor that need to be added and the injector wiring. As Bill said, the IV has 60 pins in the connector and the V has 104. So the connector and pins have to be changed. However, you said your setup will take EEC-V so maybe there's a conversion interface? And back to the discussion about the desire and economic feasibility for a better transmission, I do understand. Been there, did that, and got the tee shirt. But I just wanted to make sure that you've thought through it. I really like the ZF5 and am glad I did it. Driving Big Blue as I do it sure is nice to get the RPM down to 1900 or so on the highway. It make for a much quieter and relaxed drive. Plus I am getting better MPG than I did with the other tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 To ask the question in the other direction: Is it possible/rational to swap to the EEC-V and an E4OD or 4R70 without changing the heads and the intake? I think adding a MAF inside my intake won't be a problem, if this is the only thing I've to add. I also can easily change the wiring of my injectors... Yes, that is essentially what I did on Darth. Mine was driven by a similar problem, getting a computer that would give me sequential injection using a mass air flow sensor (MAF) and controlling the E4OD transmission. Everyone wanted to push using a Mustang EEC-IV, one big problem with that, the E4OD is strictly a truck transmission and is different enough in it's internals and shifting sequence that the computer needs to be designed for it. Since this was being done a little over 10 years ago, one of my options was a separate computer for the transmission, at the time Baumann was about the only source and I was looking at $1500 for what I would need, that on top of an engine computer. I had settled on what seemed a viable solution, a Bronco 5.0L/E4OD combination. I was able to find a suitable computer and most of the engine wiring harness. I purchased a TwEECer (a piggyback tuner for the EEC-IV) and was trying to get some help in setting up what I would need. Biggest concern was the transmission portion. A 460 engine is a torque engine that gets a lot of it's power at lower rpm as it was originally for Lincolns that were big heavy cars. A 302 develops it's power at higher rpm and I didn't want (a) buzzing a 460 with a lot of miles up like a 302 and (b) didn't want the transmission to drop out of converter lockup and/or downshift with just a little throttle application. While I was asking on a couple of EEC tuning forums, I was contacted by Adam Marrer through his business POPs racing (stands for Pony on Pony racing). He convinced me to move up to the EEC-V as it could be reflashed with a different program and he offered me a terrific deal. He is now, with two other men operating Core Tuning LLC and specializing in the Ford EEC systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 Yes, that is essentially what I did on Darth. Mine was driven by a similar problem, getting a computer that would give me sequential injection using a mass air flow sensor (MAF) and controlling the E4OD transmission. Everyone wanted to push using a Mustang EEC-IV, one big problem with that, the E4OD is strictly a truck transmission and is different enough in it's internals and shifting sequence that the computer needs to be designed for it. Since this was being done a little over 10 years ago, one of my options was a separate computer for the transmission, at the time Baumann was about the only source and I was looking at $1500 for what I would need, that on top of an engine computer. I had settled on what seemed a viable solution, a Bronco 5.0L/E4OD combination. I was able to find a suitable computer and most of the engine wiring harness. I purchased a TwEECer (a piggyback tuner for the EEC-IV) and was trying to get some help in setting up what I would need. Biggest concern was the transmission portion. A 460 engine is a torque engine that gets a lot of it's power at lower rpm as it was originally for Lincolns that were big heavy cars. A 302 develops it's power at higher rpm and I didn't want (a) buzzing a 460 with a lot of miles up like a 302 and (b) didn't want the transmission to drop out of converter lockup and/or downshift with just a little throttle application. While I was asking on a couple of EEC tuning forums, I was contacted by Adam Marrer through his business POPs racing (stands for Pony on Pony racing). He convinced me to move up to the EEC-V as it could be reflashed with a different program and he offered me a terrific deal. He is now, with two other men operating Core Tuning LLC and specializing in the Ford EEC systems. Ok. So as reading what Bill has written, it is necessary to flash the EEC-V with a custom firmware? To change the connector will not a problem at all. I think I won't need much more wires as I use with the EEC-IV. Cause I couldn't imagine where these wires should end... I would like to discover what the first invest would be for changing to the EEC-V...what do I need? EEC-V (re-programmed?) MAF-Sensor Connector for EEC-V If everything fits in my budget, I can buy these parts and stay on to find an E4OD or a 4R70... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Ok. So as reading what Bill has written, it is necessary to flash the EEC-V with a custom firmware? To change the connector will not a problem at all. I think I won't need much more wires as I use with the EEC-IV. Cause I couldn't imagine where these wires should end... I would like to discover what the first invest would be for changing to the EEC-V...what do I need? EEC-V (re-programmed?) MAF-Sensor Connector for EEC-V If everything fits in my budget, I can buy these parts and stay on to find an E4OD or a 4R70... If you contact: http://www.coretuning.net/ and let them know Gary and I recommended them, they can suggest what is available in Europe (hopefully). I have an EEC-V box here from a 1996 E250 351W and E4OD. The hardware code is ML1-441 which identifies it as having the needed circuits for an electronic controlled transmission, either a 4R70/75W or an E4OD. The 4R70/75W designation is 4 - 4 speed, R - rear wheel drive (as opposed to F - front wheel drive) 70 or 75 mkg input torque, W - wide ratio. The E4OD was upgraded and re-designated as a 4R100. The gear ratios in an AOD are 1st 2.40:1, 2nd 1.47:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.67:1; E4OD ratios are 1st 2.71:1, 2nd 1.54:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.71:1; 4R70/75W 1st 2.84:1, 2nd 1.55:1, 3rd 1:1, 4th 0.70:1; your present C6 ratios are 1st 2.46:1, 2nd 1.46:1, 3rd 1:1. For a rough idea on torque converter slippage at highway speeds (air drag should be similar) 3rd gear in Darth with a C6 engine rpm was 2700 at 55 mph, E4OD in 4th, lockup 1700 rpm, in 3rd torque converter 2700 rpm, 3rd lockup, 2200 rpm, so 500 rpm is lost and shows up as heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Ok. So as reading what Bill has written, it is necessary to flash the EEC-V with a custom firmware? To change the connector will not a problem at all. I think I won't need much more wires as I use with the EEC-IV. Cause I couldn't imagine where these wires should end... I would like to discover what the first invest would be for changing to the EEC-V...what do I need? EEC-V (re-programmed?) MAF-Sensor Connector for EEC-V If everything fits in my budget, I can buy these parts and stay on to find an E4OD or a 4R70... I don't believe it is necessary to change, or "flash", the ECU if you start with the right one - and if you have all the bits it is expecting. You effectively have a 351 so if you found an ECU for a 351W/E4OD combo that would work. However, it is going to expect you to have all the emissions equipment, like EGR and vapor recovery. So if you don't have that then you will have to reprogram the ECU. I don't have EGR or the vapor recovery so I had to reprogram an ECU. And I'll do that for Dad's truck also. Plus Steve/Foxford33 will have me do one for his Wagoneer. Bill - Could you flash one for Rene? Is that ok with Core Tuning? You'd obviously have to buy a token, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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