85lebaront2 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 Oh no! Let’s see what others say, but that sounds like lifters to me. It does to me too. In your parts listings, do you have any way to tell if the lifters are the same from a 302 to a 460? I ask, because I have a cam and lifter package I was given for a 460 that is a bit more than I wanted to use (would be good for a carbureted engine) and the cam has rusted a bit from sitting. I believe the lifters are still ok and are definitely pre-Chinesium manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted May 18, 2023 Author Share Posted May 18, 2023 It does to me too. In your parts listings, do you have any way to tell if the lifters are the same from a 302 to a 460? I ask, because I have a cam and lifter package I was given for a 460 that is a bit more than I wanted to use (would be good for a carbureted engine) and the cam has rusted a bit from sitting. I believe the lifters are still ok and are definitely pre-Chinesium manufacture. Hi Bill, The lifter seems to be the same: I hope summit will replace the cam a second time...do you think the lifter are the problem, not the cam or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 Hi Bill, The lifter seems to be the same: I hope summit will replace the cam a second time...do you think the lifter are the problem, not the cam or both? The problems I have been seeing posted all seem to start with the lifters spalling (metal flaking off or just simply wearing in one spot) the cams could also be an issue as the tip of the lobes are supposed to be slightly angled from one side to the other (front to back or back to front), this is to further force the lifters to rotate. A roller cam is different, because the roller lifters need to stay in proper alignment so the rollers turn freely, but even they are failing due to the rollers seizing or spalling, which then takes out the cam. Video 1: Video 2: Video 3: Video 4: Hopefully you can get these translated so they are understandable, it is a major problem here, where a number of engines are still pushrod valve gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 The problems I have been seeing posted all seem to start with the lifters spalling (metal flaking off or just simply wearing in one spot) the cams could also be an issue as the tip of the lobes are supposed to be slightly angled from one side to the other (front to back or back to front), this is to further force the lifters to rotate. A roller cam is different, because the roller lifters need to stay in proper alignment so the rollers turn freely, but even they are failing due to the rollers seizing or spalling, which then takes out the cam. Video 1: Video 2: Video 3: Video 4: Hopefully you can get these translated so they are understandable, it is a major problem here, where a number of engines are still pushrod valve gear. Ok, thanks Bill for the video links. Very interesting stuff. As I have to tear down the engine a third time, I've asked myself to also change the springs this time. I currently use the original springs of my 302 factory heads. Viewing the video also caused me to think about this. Not that I'm thinking my springs may have too much force...rather the opposite, cause I haven't changed them before... What do you think? And if you think a change makes sense, are one of these usable? Qualcast, Melling or sealed power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 The problems I have been seeing posted all seem to start with the lifters spalling (metal flaking off or just simply wearing in one spot) the cams could also be an issue as the tip of the lobes are supposed to be slightly angled from one side to the other (front to back or back to front), this is to further force the lifters to rotate. A roller cam is different, because the roller lifters need to stay in proper alignment so the rollers turn freely, but even they are failing due to the rollers seizing or spalling, which then takes out the cam. Video 1: Video 2: Video 3: Video 4: Hopefully you can get these translated so they are understandable, it is a major problem here, where a number of engines are still pushrod valve gear. So, I've told Summit the problem. This time they're send out a new cam without having images, cause the defective one is still installed...as I've said before, I'm very impressed of their service! Tomorrow I'll tear down the engine's top and make some photos with my stethoscope camera. On Sunday I'll pull the cam...I'll keep you up to date... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 So, I've told Summit the problem. This time they're send out a new cam without having images, cause the defective one is still installed...as I've said before, I'm very impressed of their service! Tomorrow I'll tear down the engine's top and make some photos with my stethoscope camera. On Sunday I'll pull the cam...I'll keep you up to date... That is really GOOD customer support! How about giving Summit a rating at the page in Bullnose Forum/Marketplace/Reviews/Summit? So sorry you are having all this trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-F150-Explorer Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 So, I've told Summit the problem. This time they're send out a new cam without having images, cause the defective one is still installed...as I've said before, I'm very impressed of their service! Tomorrow I'll tear down the engine's top and make some photos with my stethoscope camera. On Sunday I'll pull the cam...I'll keep you up to date... I like Sealed Power and used them with success. But with the problems I'm seeing within this thread, it makes me question the quality of all parts manufacturers. Time to stock up on old surplus perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 I like Sealed Power and used them with success. But with the problems I'm seeing within this thread, it makes me question the quality of all parts manufacturers. Time to stock up on old surplus perhaps. That is what a number of engine builders are doing and why I offered the set that came with a cam I was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 That is what a number of engine builders are doing and why I offered the set that came with a cam I was given. So, today I've pulled the lifters and the cam. See by your own: This time it kills the lifter from cylinder number 5, outlet. Last time it was the inlet of number 4. So does anyone has a tip to check the cam I'll get from summit again? It's again the same one from comp cams. They have checked their stock but don't have another brand for the 351W in stock. As this cam is very popular, they said, they don't have "old" ones... Or do you think the quality of the lifters is probably more the problem? The question is what first gives up. Lifters or the camshaft lobes... Last time I've bought sealed power, this time it were a set from melling. For the next try I've bought enginetech... I also have re-checked the oil flow by driving the pump with a drill. Oil supply was given on every lifter up to the rocker arms... I think there is nothing I've forgotten to check, regarding my block, heads and valve system. I also have ordered some new valve springs. But I can't imagine that they can be the problem, cause I use the 302 stock heads with the original springs. If they haven't their original tension anymore, this won't affect the lifters, rather the valves, as far as I know. I don't want to open the engine a third time, so I'm happy for every hint I'll get to check as much as possible before installing the new parts. I still have my original 302 cam, but it isn't in very good condition...here are the bearings run-in, that's why I also have replaced the bearing shells in my block. Thanks for your help in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 So, today I've pulled the lifters and the cam. See by your own: This time it kills the lifter from cylinder number 5, outlet. Last time it was the inlet of number 4. So does anyone has a tip to check the cam I'll get from summit again? It's again the same one from comp cams. They have checked their stock but don't have another brand for the 351W in stock. As this cam is very popular, they said, they don't have "old" ones... Or do you think the quality of the lifters is probably more the problem? The question is what first gives up. Lifters or the camshaft lobes... Last time I've bought sealed power, this time it were a set from melling. For the next try I've bought enginetech... I also have re-checked the oil flow by driving the pump with a drill. Oil supply was given on every lifter up to the rocker arms... I think there is nothing I've forgotten to check, regarding my block, heads and valve system. I also have ordered some new valve springs. But I can't imagine that they can be the problem, cause I use the 302 stock heads with the original springs. If they haven't their original tension anymore, this won't affect the lifters, rather the valves, as far as I know. I don't want to open the engine a third time, so I'm happy for every hint I'll get to check as much as possible before installing the new parts. I still have my original 302 cam, but it isn't in very good condition...here are the bearings run-in, that's why I also have replaced the bearing shells in my block. Thanks for your help in advance. Wow! That’s the worst lifter I’ve ever seen! As for what fails first, I don’t know. But that lifter doesn’t appear to have been heat-treated, so I’d bet it was the culprit. Assuming you are coating the cam and lifters with break-in lube and spinning the oil pump to pre-lube I don’t know what else to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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