Ferdinand - '85 Bronco 351W XLT "Phoenix" rebuild project...

[Ferdinand]

One layer at a time, and pretty soon you'll have a Bloomin' Onion or an ogre. Not sure which.

Did you ever get the choke hooked up? You need the choke to back off as the engine gets warm or you'll have problems.

As for the timing drifting, it sounds like your clamp isn't. Perhaps you have the wrong bolt in it and it is bottoming out w/o clamping the dizzy down?

Morning guys.

I can't figure out how the guys are inserting a portion of text into their reply to be more specific when answering...

I can cut and paste I guess, but if there is an easy explanation, I'm all for it

And for what it's worth, I am sure praying this guy ends up as a bloomin' onion!! 🤣

 

[Ferdinand]

...I am spending some time in the EVTM. Hopefully I can figure out what is happening.

This caption is probably easier to understand since it explains how the alt works, and how to force it ON, bypassing the regulator:

http://supermotors.net/getfile/897843/thumbnail/alternator1g.jpg

If the battery voltage jumps & then climbs slowly, the alt is charging it. But it all depends on the connections from the battery terminals (BOTH of them) to the alternator (its positive charging post AND its case negative).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/825495/thumbnail/cont6.jpg

Steve,

I just read through your post in the linked info. Man I appreciate all time you must have invested in getting so much information onto that other site!

(I just wish now after reading the info in the Garagemahal and there on your post on super motors, I would have waited in purchasing my 1G, so I could have done a 3G upgrade!!

I am going to try and replace the voltage regulator first. I put a meter on the battery both off and when running. Thankfully it doesn't look like it has any parasitic drains which is awesome, but I get absolutely nothing but slow drain when running.

If I remember right I should see something in the neighborhood of 13+ volts if the alt is charging properly.

I'll keep you posted on any progress. Thanks again for the info!!

[Ferdinand]

Ok, so I am having the dickens of a time getting this thing to stay at the proper timing... but he did make his maiden voyage today!!

Try disconnecting the vacuum advance, and then see if the initial timing stays put. When you pull the hose off the distributor, just put a screw in it so it doesn't turn into a vacuum leak.

When I installed my rebuilt engine, I didn't hook up the vacuum advance for about a week afterwards. I wanted to get everything else working properly first, and then get the vacuum advance dialed in after the fact.

If you vacuum advance canister is adjustable, you can take some of the sensitivity out of it.

Do you have a cheap vacuum gauge? You can check and see what/if any if being applied to the vacuum advance during idle.

Thanks Rembrant!

I had wondered about that. I hadn't connected ANY other vacuum to anything (except the vac adv.) trying to keep the start up as trouble free as possible. I thought I needed it.

I am going to try this tonight when I get home and I bet it will help stabilize a baseline at least.

I am getting closer to putting that front clip on!!!

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Morning guys.

Morning!

I can't figure out how the guys are inserting a portion of text into their reply to be more specific when answering...

I can cut and paste I guess, but if there is an easy explanation, I'm all for it

You can hit the "Quote" button to the left, above. In this case that gave me your statements, preceded by a "quote author="Ferdinand"" and followed by a "/quote", but of which are surrounded by "" symbols. (If I put those on you wouldn't see the things I put in quotes.) Those put the "Ferdinand wrote" statements and the side bars on.

So I just copied the "quote author="Ferdinand"" and the "/quote" tags, including the "", and put them ahead of and behind each separate statement so I could answer each one individually instead of all of them collectively.

And for what it's worth, I am sure praying this guy ends up as a bloomin' onion!! 🤣

I hope so!

 

[Steve83]

So I just copied the "quote author="Ferdinand"" and the "/quote" tags, including the "<" and ">", and put them ahead of and behind each separate statement...

I start by copying the "author" tag, and pasting it after the /quote tag. Then I copy both of them (in backward order), and undo (CTRL+Z) to get rid of the last author tag. I delete any leading & ending text I'm not replying to. Then I select the in-between text I don't want quoted, and paste the tags in-place of that (usually beginning & ending with ellipses). Repeat as many times as needed. For multi-quotes, I copy what's left, back up, quote the next post, paste the first one at the beginning, and repeat the process. Then I go back & type my responses between each pair of /quote & author tags.

[Ferdinand]

Running the engine tonight.

Can't figure out what the engine pops the say it does when stabbing the throttle. Seems to run way smoother if you just ease into it. (But who wants to do that )

Last running of the night. Still holding at about 15 - 18 degrees. (My balancer is really hard to read. I may look into a timing tape or something. Right now I just have paint marks on 0, 10, & 20 degrees BTDC) It still is able to get me rather close. Would the timing on these be that sensitive that I should get a timing tape to put on the balancer to be able to read EVERY degree?

Replaced the voltage regulator tonight. Didn't seem to help. What should a healthy reading be? I was thinking over 13volts, but for something that old and with a weaker alternator, will it be much less??? 🤔

[Gary Lewis]

Running the engine tonight.

Can't figure out what the engine pops the say it does when stabbing the throttle. Seems to run way smoother if you just ease into it. (But who wants to do that )

Last running of the night. Still holding at about 15 - 18 degrees. (My balancer is really hard to read. I may look into a timing tape or something. Right now I just have paint marks on 0, 10, & 20 degrees BTDC) It still is able to get me rather close. Would the timing on these be that sensitive that I should get a timing tape to put on the balancer to be able to read EVERY degree?

Replaced the voltage regulator tonight. Didn't seem to help. What should a healthy reading be? I was thinking over 13volts, but for something that old and with a weaker alternator, will it be much less??? 🤔

Several things. First, a bad regulator can kill an alternator, which can kill a regulator. So you need to check the alternator. In Steve's info there are instructions on how to test the alternator by giving it full "field". If it works that way then either the new regulator is bad or you have a wiring problem.

As for a voltage, with the engine running and no draw it should be at about 14.4 volts. But that is for a well-charged battery, so something a bit less but still around 14.0 volts would be expected if you've just started it. However, anything higher than 12.8 volts says the alternator is working as that is the voltage for a fully-charged battery that isn't on charge, so higher than that means it is getting charged somehow.

And don't forget that a 1G alternator doesn't put out much current at idle. So if the battery isn't fully charged and the engine is idling the voltage may be down around 13 volts.

Now, for the choke. It is on in the first video and the engine is seemingly happy. That means that the fuel/air mix is pretty lean and the choke is making up for it. But perhaps things will be fine when the engine gets warm. We shall see.

But, when you blip the throttle the choke is opening some, which is leaning out the mix. And an engine doesn't want to accelerate when lean. But, when you slowly increase the throttle it probably doesn't bump the choke open, so it will accelerate.

Given that, I'd not worry about it until you get further into the project. With the choke wire hooked up as the engine (choke actually) warms up the choke will come off and then you can adjust the idle mix. But while the choke is on you can't adjust the mix.

As for the timing, I don't think it is that sensitive. For the moment I wouldn't worry about getting it exactly right as you can't when it isn't being driven.

[Steve83]

My balancer is really hard to read. I may look into a timing tape or something. Right now I just have paint marks on 0, 10, & 20 degrees BTDC

With the engine running, gently touch a wire brush to the balancer, applying progressively-more pressure until it's clean. If you're not comfortable doing that, it just takes a little more time & elbow grease to brush it clean with the engine stopped, or the balancer off. Then paint it black or Ford gray & let that dry. Then wipe white paint into the embossments (especially the 10° mark & the pointer) so you can read them with a timing light.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1142306/thumbnail/20181017_172050.jpg

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1055019/thumbnail/05gray46.jpg

Would the timing on these be that sensitive...?

It shouldn't be.

...read EVERY degree?

No, you can gauge single degrees by eye on a circle that diameter. But the correct setting should have a mark embossed (usually larger than all the other marks).

Replaced the voltage regulator tonight. Didn't seem to help.

Did the original fail a test? Did you check all the wires between the alt, regulator, & battery (including grounds)? What did you replace it with (brand, PN, source)?

What should a healthy reading be? I was thinking over 13volts...

All lead-acid battery cells make 2.1VDC, and a nominal 12V battery has 6 cells, so that's 12.6V when fully-charged. Charging voltage has to be slightly higher (to drive the chemical reaction into reverse); a fully-charged battery needs 12.9-14.5V to counteract its natural tendency to self-discharge (internally); a discharged battery might cause a voltage regulator to go above 15V (if the engineer who designed the regulator & alternator thought the battery he specified could handle that much voltage & current), but I wouldn't expect a typical 1G to get up to 15 under any conditions.

...for something that old and with a weaker alternator, will it be much less?

Always exactly the same, for all 12V vehicles of any age, make, or model, with any alternator (or alternatorS), or any brand/age/size/design of 12V battery (or any combination of lower-voltage batteries wired in series or parallel to make a nominal 12V total).

The only reason old vehicles typically have low voltage is neglect (poor maintenance).

...a bit less but still around 14.0 volts would be expected if you've just started it.

The voltage regulator's target voltage will be HIGHER when battery voltage is lower; so higher just after starting, progressing lower as the battery takes the charge.

...when you blip the throttle the choke is opening some...

If you've waited long enough for the cold engine to warm up before touching the throttle, the choke will open fully the first time the throttle lever screw comes away from the choke cam.

But, when you slowly increase the throttle it probably doesn't bump the choke open, so it will accelerate.

The choke's bimetallic (thermostatic) spring tries to open the plate as it warms up, but if the throttle is resting against its cam, the choke cam can't move, so the choke plate can't, either. Any time the throttle is moved, the choke will go to the position its spring is pushing it. The throttle doesn't push the choke.

With the choke wire hooked up as the engine (choke actually) warms up the choke will come off...

The choke can't come off while the throttle lever is resting against the choke cam. That's why the throttle blip is necessary.

...getting it exactly right as you can't when it isn't being driven.

The engine only needs to be warmed-up to set timing correctly - it doesn't have to be in a driveable vehicle.

[FuzzFace2]

Several things. First, a bad regulator can kill an alternator, which can kill a regulator. So you need to check the alternator. In Steve's info there are instructions on how to test the alternator by giving it full "field". If it works that way then either the new regulator is bad or you have a wiring problem.

As for a voltage, with the engine running and no draw it should be at about 14.4 volts. But that is for a well-charged battery, so something a bit less but still around 14.0 volts would be expected if you've just started it. However, anything higher than 12.8 volts says the alternator is working as that is the voltage for a fully-charged battery that isn't on charge, so higher than that means it is getting charged somehow.

And don't forget that a 1G alternator doesn't put out much current at idle. So if the battery isn't fully charged and the engine is idling the voltage may be down around 13 volts.

Now, for the choke. It is on in the first video and the engine is seemingly happy. That means that the fuel/air mix is pretty lean and the choke is making up for it. But perhaps things will be fine when the engine gets warm. We shall see.

But, when you blip the throttle the choke is opening some, which is leaning out the mix. And an engine doesn't want to accelerate when lean. But, when you slowly increase the throttle it probably doesn't bump the choke open, so it will accelerate.

Given that, I'd not worry about it until you get further into the project. With the choke wire hooked up as the engine (choke actually) warms up the choke will come off and then you can adjust the idle mix. But while the choke is on you can't adjust the mix.

As for the timing, I don't think it is that sensitive. For the moment I wouldn't worry about getting it exactly right as you can't when it isn't being driven.

Are you running 1 side of the motor open header?

It just does not sound right to me like a few wires are crossed.

And if it is popping out the carb & exh. that would be it.

What firing order you going by? 302 / 351 or 351HO as I seen it posted they use different firing orders.

I take it you don't have a dial back timing light?

If you did you would not need a timing tape or all the paint marks to see on the crank.

Dave ----

[Steve83]

...a dial back timing light?

If you did you would not need a timing tape or all the paint marks to see on the crank.

Yes, you still have to start at 0°, so you need SOME marks. IMO, it's always easier (even though I have a good Snap-On advance timing light) to read the factory mark on the balancer at the factory time.