Ferdinand - '85 Bronco 351W XLT "Phoenix" rebuild project...

[Ferdinand]

I don't remember all you did. Have you made sure your distributor is timed properly, as in, on the number one cylinder and the spark plug wires are in the correct firing order?

I also have not heard if he went back over this as I think from what I hear from the video it is only hitting on six cly. 2 wires crossed.

This would also say the cross wires because of the popping out the carb & exh.

Dave ----

Bear with me while I figure out this "quote" routine 😉

I have double checked the firing order and am going off the one in the Haynes manual for the 5.8L. I thought I remember someone mentioning there may be a different one for the H.O., which I have, but I don't ever remember seeing a different firing order for the H.O. designation.

I am a bit curious how to get the rotor in the distributor back to #1 pin unless you just pop the cap and rotate the motor by hand? I am willing to try it though!

As far as timing goes, I put paint marks on 0, 10 & 30 degrees BTDC

[Ferdinand]

In case you don't find it: https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/897843

Thanks Gary. I've read through the information now I just need time to trouble shoot...

My wife decided she needed a new coffee table built. I think she may have been getting a little jaded with all the wrenching lately and no carpentry projects for her 🙃

Hopefully this will do for a while.

[Steve83]

...the one in the Haynes manual for the 5.8L.

That should be correct, but here it is again:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/470416/thumbnail/sparkwireroute94up_5l.jpg

...a different one for the H.O. ...

Only the 5.0L HO, which I think uses the 5.8L order.

I am a bit curious how to get the rotor in the distributor back to #1 pin unless you just pop the cap and rotate the motor by hand?

If you can get a grip; otherwise, use a wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt. Only turn it in the "tighten" direction. Of course, it's much easier with the plugs out.

[Ferdinand]

My balancer is really hard to read. I may look into a timing tape or something. Right now I just have paint marks on 0, 10, & 20 degrees BTDC

With the engine running, gently touch a wire brush to the balancer, applying progressively-more pressure until it's clean. If you're not comfortable doing that, it just takes a little more time & elbow grease to brush it clean with the engine stopped, or the balancer off. Then paint it black or Ford gray & let that dry. Then wipe white paint into the embossments (especially the 10° mark & the pointer) so you can read them with a timing light.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1142306/thumbnail/20181017_172050.jpg

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1055019/thumbnail/05gray46.jpg

Would the timing on these be that sensitive...?

It shouldn't be.

...read EVERY degree?

No, you can gauge single degrees by eye on a circle that diameter. But the correct setting should have a mark embossed (usually larger than all the other marks).

Replaced the voltage regulator tonight. Didn't seem to help.

Did the original fail a test? Did you check all the wires between the alt, regulator, & battery (including grounds)? What did you replace it with (brand, PN, source)?

What should a healthy reading be? I was thinking over 13volts...

All lead-acid battery cells make 2.1VDC, and a nominal 12V battery has 6 cells, so that's 12.6V when fully-charged. Charging voltage has to be slightly higher (to drive the chemical reaction into reverse); a fully-charged battery needs 12.9-14.5V to counteract its natural tendency to self-discharge (internally); a discharged battery might cause a voltage regulator to go above 15V (if the engineer who designed the regulator & alternator thought the battery he specified could handle that much voltage & current), but I wouldn't expect a typical 1G to get up to 15 under any conditions.

...for something that old and with a weaker alternator, will it be much less?

Always exactly the same, for all 12V vehicles of any age, make, or model, with any alternator (or alternatorS), or any brand/age/size/design of 12V battery (or any combination of lower-voltage batteries wired in series or parallel to make a nominal 12V total).

The only reason old vehicles typically have low voltage is neglect (poor maintenance).

...a bit less but still around 14.0 volts would be expected if you've just started it.

The voltage regulator's target voltage will be HIGHER when battery voltage is lower; so higher just after starting, progressing lower as the battery takes the charge.

...when you blip the throttle the choke is opening some...

If you've waited long enough for the cold engine to warm up before touching the throttle, the choke will open fully the first time the throttle lever screw comes away from the choke cam.

But, when you slowly increase the throttle it probably doesn't bump the choke open, so it will accelerate.

The choke's bimetallic (thermostatic) spring tries to open the plate as it warms up, but if the throttle is resting against its cam, the choke cam can't move, so the choke plate can't, either. Any time the throttle is moved, the choke will go to the position its spring is pushing it. The throttle doesn't push the choke.

With the choke wire hooked up as the engine (choke actually) warms up the choke will come off...

The choke can't come off while the throttle lever is resting against the choke cam. That's why the throttle blip is necessary.

...getting it exactly right as you can't when it isn't being driven.

The engine only needs to be warmed-up to set timing correctly - it doesn't have to be in a driveable vehicle.

Yikes, so I tried the quote thing on this one (the thread where Steve is inserting info in Gary's comments) and I am a bit stumped. I get about 3 deep in the quote lines, so I will just try to reply here.

I am trying to wire up the choke tonight and I am a bit unclear as to how to wire the hot for the choke... From what I understand, it should be wired to something that comes on with the key. But should it be wired to something that has constant power while the engine is running?

I have a typical fuse block:

[Ferdinand]

I may regret this later since I am not really that public of a person, but for what it's worth, and because I am incredibly grateful to Gary and all you guys for your help, information, and projects, I put a "shout-out" to the forum.

Let's keep peeling them onions!!

[Steve83]

...how to wire the hot for the choke... From what I understand, it should be wired to something that comes on with the key. But should it be wired to something that has constant power while the engine is running?

Depends on the choke heater element - is it (modern aftermarket) 12V, or (old factory) 6V? The only places to get ~6V on these trucks is the ICVR (not practical for this) or the alternator "S" terminal (where the factory wired the 6V choke heater).

Read the carb manual to be sure, but I think I can almost make out "12V" molded into the heater in your last pic.

Does anyone have a preferred fuse to tie an electric choke to?

Again: depends... If you use the "S" terminal, no fuse. If it's 12V, just splice into a 12V circuit on the engine that's only hot when the engine is running (like the coil or ignition system positive).

...curious if an inline fuse is helpful or a headache and waste of time.

A fuse is necessary for NEW circuits. A 6V heater isn't new because the factory built the truck that way - you'd just wire it to the factory circuit. If it's 12V: since this is such a low-current addition (probably ~1A or less), it's safe to add it to a much-higher-current factory circuit (one with a 5A or higher fuse). If you have to add a fuse (for ANY circuit), the best place to put it is with all the other fuses, so you can find it when it blows. Read the first 4 captions in this album:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/405445/thumbnail/05busbars.jpg

Lastly, does anyone have a preferred route out of the firewall?

Through the factory firewall grommet, inside the factory harness. Use a semi-blunt probe (like a long phillips screwdriver) to spread the wires inside the grommet, and feed your new wire(s) through before they shift back into place.

[grumpin]

...how to wire the hot for the choke... From what I understand, it should be wired to something that comes on with the key. But should it be wired to something that has constant power while the engine is running?

Depends on the choke heater element - is it (modern aftermarket) 12V, or (old factory) 6V? The only places to get ~6V on these trucks is the ICVR (not practical for this) or the alternator "S" terminal (where the factory wired the 6V choke heater).

Read the carb manual to be sure, but I think I can almost make out "12V" molded into the heater in your last pic.

Does anyone have a preferred fuse to tie an electric choke to?

Again: depends... If you use the "S" terminal, no fuse. If it's 12V, just splice into a 12V circuit on the engine that's only hot when the engine is running (like the coil or ignition system positive).

...curious if an inline fuse is helpful or a headache and waste of time.

A fuse is necessary for NEW circuits. A 6V heater isn't new because the factory built the truck that way - you'd just wire it to the factory circuit. If it's 12V: since this is such a low-current addition (probably ~1A or less), it's safe to add it to a much-higher-current factory circuit (one with a 5A or higher fuse). If you have to add a fuse (for ANY circuit), the best place to put it is with all the other fuses, so you can find it when it blows. Read the first 4 captions in this album:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/405445/thumbnail/05busbars.jpg

Lastly, does anyone have a preferred route out of the firewall?

Through the factory firewall grommet, inside the factory harness. Use a semi-blunt probe (like a long phillips screwdriver) to spread the wires inside the grommet, and feed your new wire(s) through before they shift back into place.

Good job on the coffee table!

[FuzzFace2]

Good job on the coffee table!

I would say Steve got you heading down the right path.

I will not say anything more on the plug wires, it was all based off what I heard when running.

Yes good job on the table.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I may regret this later since I am not really that public of a person, but for what it's worth, and because I am incredibly grateful to Gary and all you guys for your help, information, and projects, I put a "shout-out" to the forum.

Let's keep peeling them onions!!

Wow! Thanks for the shout out! Well done!

And, well done on the coffee table. That's a lot of pieces, which takes a lot of patience. I'm impressed. Never was good at woodwork.

On the choke, as it is an Edelbrock it will be 12v. But it can be run by the ~7v off the stator on the alternator, and that makes it pretty simple as you run a short wire. However, it takes longer for the choke to come off so you have to adjust the choke pretty lean.

So using 12v is better. And a good source for that under the hood is the white/light blue wire near the ignition module. Not "at" the module, but just ahead of connector C321, as shown here. But, that source is hot when the key is on, whether the engine is running or not. So if you turn the key on and leave it the choke will heat up and come off. But, it is a fused source so you don't have to add another one.

So, a cleaner, albeit more tedious, solution is to use the power off the stator on the alternator to pull in a relay, and have the relay power the choke. That way the choke will only get power when the engine is running. And in that case you'll need to fuse the power lead as you'll probably want to take it from the hot terminal of the solenoid.

 

[Rembrant]

On the choke, as it is an Edelbrock it will be 12v. But it can be run by the ~7v off the stator on the alternator, and that makes it pretty simple as you run a short wire. However, it takes longer for the choke to come off so you have to adjust the choke pretty lean.

I'm running my Holley choke from the factory stator source. I didn't check it with my meter, but I understood it to be half of the ALT output voltage, so it *should be in the area of 7.25vdc? I know a 12vdc source is recommended, but there are a lot of Ford/Holley people that have used the factory stator source without issue. I read a thread on one of those hotrod forums where the guys tested/compared the two different voltage sources, and they claimed that the difference in time was negligible. Now, I know that's an anecdotal internet claim...but still, a lot of people do run them that way.