ZF5 or E4OD For Big Blue?

[Nothing Special]

I generally like manuals but they can get hairy off road. There have been times where I've had to balance all three pedals and me not being skilled enough to heel-toe even if the pedals were set up for it was not gonna happen. Though having a really slow 1st gear in low range helps a ton so you don't have to mash the throttle.

For a vehicle that's only occasionally 'wheeled I could agree with this. But if a vehicle is being set up for it (as Big Blue is), a hand throttle makes balancing the three pedals really simple. I know I wasn't able to talk Gary into a hand throttle, but he does have the ability to set the idle speed higher, which might suffice.

[Ray Cecil]

I generally like manuals but they can get hairy off road. There have been times where I've had to balance all three pedals and me not being skilled enough to heel-toe even if the pedals were set up for it was not gonna happen. Though having a really slow 1st gear in low range helps a ton so you don't have to mash the throttle.

For a vehicle that's only occasionally 'wheeled I could agree with this. But if a vehicle is being set up for it (as Big Blue is), a hand throttle makes balancing the three pedals really simple. I know I wasn't able to talk Gary into a hand throttle, but he does have the ability to set the idle speed higher, which might suffice.

I've got a hand throttle on my 72 International Dump Truck. It helps a lot when in steep situations on my land.

[Gary Lewis]

I've got a hand throttle on my 72 International Dump Truck. It helps a lot when in steep situations on my land.

Ok guys, I'm home and have read and re-read the comments. Thanks a bunch!

And having done that as well talked things over with our son, I'm not changing to an auto. I doubt we'll get to do many more of these trips, and if we do we can make do with what we have. However, if down the road he moves somewhere like the PNW where he could use the truck then we could swap transmissions. However, we'd also probably have to add back the emissions equipment I deleted.

But I do have some thoughts/comments:

• Throttle: I do see the need for a hand throttle. Several times we had uphill starts and I taught Bret to start in 1st with the e-brake set and use the right foot to throttle up. But a hand throttle would help.

• Compression Braking: I watched while in the mountains and I really enjoyed the ability to use the engine to slow down. That makes a big difference, and in 4Low there is some serious braking.

• Cab Floor: Hadn't thought about that, Jim, and don't want to do that. But glad you thought of it.

• Driveshaft: I probably do have the driveshaft as Huck had a 133" (RCLB) just like Dad's truck and Big Blue. So I should have the driveshaft.

• Torque: I doubt the 400 has more torque than the 460. But I also doubt that I can get more than 420 lb-ft to the ground on the street before wheelspin sets in.

• MPG: I'd hate to give up the marginal "economy" we are currently getting with Big Blue, and I know the E4OD will hurt that some.

• Spirited Driving: The ZF5 is not for the spirited-of-foot. It is a truck transmission and you need to shift it slowly or you'll pay the price. The synchros are notorious for failing if pushed, and in my newly-rebuilt tranny you still have to baby 3rd by pausing in neutral when downshifting. Which is one of the reasons there's an E4OD in Dad's truck - it'll click off shifts very quickly and that roller 400 will make it GO!

But thanks for all the comments. It helped me think through it.

[Nothing Special]

Ok guys, I'm home and have read and re-read the comments. Thanks a bunch!

And having done that as well talked things over with our son, I'm not changing to an auto. I doubt we'll get to do many more of these trips, and if we do we can make do with what we have. However, if down the road he moves somewhere like the PNW where he could use the truck then we could swap transmissions. However, we'd also probably have to add back the emissions equipment I deleted.

But I do have some thoughts/comments:

• Throttle: I do see the need for a hand throttle. Several times we had uphill starts and I taught Bret to start in 1st with the e-brake set and use the right foot to throttle up. But a hand throttle would help.

• Compression Braking: I watched while in the mountains and I really enjoyed the ability to use the engine to slow down. That makes a big difference, and in 4Low there is some serious braking.

• Cab Floor: Hadn't thought about that, Jim, and don't want to do that. But glad you thought of it.

• Driveshaft: I probably do have the driveshaft as Huck had a 133" (RCLB) just like Dad's truck and Big Blue. So I should have the driveshaft.

• Torque: I doubt the 400 has more torque than the 460. But I also doubt that I can get more than 420 lb-ft to the ground on the street before wheelspin sets in.

• MPG: I'd hate to give up the marginal "economy" we are currently getting with Big Blue, and I know the E4OD will hurt that some.

• Spirited Driving: The ZF5 is not for the spirited-of-foot. It is a truck transmission and you need to shift it slowly or you'll pay the price. The synchros are notorious for failing if pushed, and in my newly-rebuilt tranny you still have to baby 3rd by pausing in neutral when downshifting. Which is one of the reasons there's an E4OD in Dad's truck - it'll click off shifts very quickly and that roller 400 will make it GO!

But thanks for all the comments. It helped me think through it.

Gary, I forget how much detail I've gone into on hand throttles before, but since it's here...

There are two basic types that I'm aware of. My preference is one that stays where you put it. So if you open the throttle with the hand throttle it will stay there, not go back to idle when you let go. There are kits like this one that make it pretty easy to implement. On my very low-tech Bronco I like being able to use this type as a high idle. It's also nice as a "crawl cruise control" to give a little faster pace when idling down a trail is a good idea (and it's hard to keep your foot from bouncing around at times like that).

The other type is something like a bicycle hand brake lever pulling a cable. This will return to idle wwhen you let go of it. Jeff (who I've 'wheeled with at SMORR in Missouri a couple of times) likes this type because it won't bite you by having your throttle open and racing your engine (or ramming you into a rock or something) when your hand isn't on it to shut it down.

Full disclosure, I've never used that type and I don't think Jeff has ever used what I have, so I think you get used to whatever you have and like it. But I will say I've never had the kind of problem Jeff is concerned about.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I forget how much detail I've gone into on hand throttles before, but since it's here...

There are two basic types that I'm aware of. My preference is one that stays where you put it. So if you open the throttle with the hand throttle it will stay there, not go back to idle when you let go. There are kits like this one that make it pretty easy to implement. On my very low-tech Bronco I like being able to use this type as a high idle. It's also nice as a "crawl cruise control" to give a little faster pace when idling down a trail is a good idea (and it's hard to keep your foot from bouncing around at times like that).

The other type is something like a bicycle hand brake lever pulling a cable. This will return to idle wwhen you let go of it. Jeff (who I've 'wheeled with at SMORR in Missouri a couple of times) likes this type because it won't bite you by having your throttle open and racing your engine (or ramming you into a rock or something) when your hand isn't on it to shut it down.

Full disclosure, I've never used that type and I don't think Jeff has ever used what I have, so I think you get used to whatever you have and like it. But I will say I've never had the kind of problem Jeff is concerned about.

Bob - I wasn't aware of a type that would go back to idle when you let go. Not sure I like that as it seems like you'd have to hold onto it as you took off instead of setting it to, maybe, 1000 RPM and taking off w/o holding anything.

And I like the TeraFlex one. Thanks for the link. When I get to that point I think I'll add it.

By the way, PTO via the computer didn't pan out. Apparently all that does is turn off the emissions since things like ambulances would be stationary for a long period of time. I tested it and it didn't raise the RPM at all.

[Nothing Special]

.... Not sure I like that as it seems like you'd have to hold onto it as you took off....

You definitely need to keep your hand on that style anytime you expect it to do anything. That's both the upside and the downside to that style, depending on your preference. If you think you lean toward the kind that stays where you put it, I certainly won't argue with you! That's what I like too, I just wanted you to know your options.