Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Today we got back from a long weekend trip to Southern Missouri Off Road Ranch (SMORR).  Some of you might recall I went there in 2020, driving the Bronco the 650 miles, 'wheeling a couple of days and driving it home.  I had met up with some guys with old Jeeps (out of 12 vehicles my '71 Bronco was the third newest!).

Lesley didn't want to go on that trip, so I took my dog.  But last month in Sand Hollow she said she might be willing to go on a trip like that one from 2020.  Happily enough I had just received an invitation to join the same group again this October!  So that is the trip we just finished.

Lesley did go with me (I left the dog with my son), and we went for the comfort of the motorhome rather than going for the bragging rights of driving the Bronco.  I don't have the video of the trip pulled together yet, that'll take a while.  So I thought I'd start this thread with just photos.

There were 11 vehicles in the group this time, and there were 3 newer than my Bronco.  The four "new" vehicles are at the right end of the lineup below.  The silver buggy on the far right is a '91 Toyota pickup (with a few modifications!).  The next one is a pretty radical side-by-side (driven by a professional "rock bouncer", so he provided some entertainment!).  All of the vehicles to the left of my Bronco are relatively stock looking Jeeps from the '40s and '50s (but most of them had 2 lockers and some had a lot of other modifications).


There are a number of easy, scenic trails through the park



But the fun for the weekend was the harder trails that those trails accessed.  With other vehicles and more experienced drivers as support, and knowing that I could still get home in the motorhome if things went south, I was able to try some even harder obstacles.  To keep Gary from worrying TOO much, the only damage I did was a little more "rock rash" on my bumpers, rock sliders and axles.

Here was the obstacle that probably scared me the most.  A V-notch like this is easy if you do it right, but the cost of failure can be some pretty significant sheet metal damage.




Here's what happens if you get off your line


It was very entertaining and educational watching some of these guys tackle obstacles that look impossible!  They didn't always succeed, but they did always exceed my expectations!



In this picture he actually had both front tires off the ground!  No, he didn't make it up.  But all three of the vehicles newer than my Bronco actually did!


I tried to stick with the more adventurous in the group.  Sometimes that wasn't possible and I (and a few others) had to take a different trail to meet up with them at the end of their trail.  But sometimes there were bypasses to the hardest sections.  All three of these pictures are different ways to the same point




And sometimes things just don't go according to plan!  This driver said that it's important to whatch where you are going rather than watching the Jeeps in front of you, even when you aren't on a difficult section of the trail!  We didn't get there until the recovery was well in progress.  He dropped the right front in a HOLE and was saved from rolling over by landing on his fender and grill.  A little tug from behind got him righted.


As I said, I didn't do any real damage to the Bronco.  I did need to winch once, and as I noted, I didn't go for the hard lines and passed entirely on some trails.  But I pushed myself and my Bronco farther than I have before (and that only a month after saying the same thing about Double Sammy in Sand Hollow!).  Lesley said she had a lot of fun and would like to go on more trips like this!  So it was a huge win all around!

I'll add video after I get it posted, but that'll likely take at least a few days.

Nothing Special wrote

Lesley said she had a lot of fun and would like to go on more trips like this!  So it was a huge win all around!

WOW!!!

Bob, I am totally astonished!


And I admit that, reading at your post, I was wondering about Lesley reaction during this action trip.
Reassured by your conclusion!

Wow, is right! Very cool!

There were a number of points in the trip when I thought I might be making a pretty big withdrawal from Lesley's emotional bank account!  But she kept assuring me that she was having fun (and she's not a very good liar about that, so I do believe her).  It helped that this is a really nice group of people, and there were a few other wives along who also rode or walked rather than drove, so she wasn't the only woman / passenger.

I'll third the WOW!  That was quite the trip, and she's quite the trooper to not only go but have fun at the same time.  It speaks volumes on how much trust she has in you and your abilities.  Well done!

Btw, we've signed up for something called Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party with our kids and grands.  

One other couple on this trip is probably in their 70s.  They only started 'wheeling a couple years ago.  They were in the silver Toyota-based buggy on the far right of the first picture.  With 39.5" tires and LOW gearing they were taking all of the hard lines, getting over things that very few others could do.  She rode with him the entire time!  At the end of the weekend I told her that Lesley thought she was a real trooper for staying in over everything.  She told me that early on she had got out for one of the harder obstacles.  Her husband drove over it safely and she slipped, fell and broke her wrist while she waited for him!  So she figures it's safer in the truck!

As to Lesley having confidence in me, yes, she does, which is nice.  But she also wanted to make sure I knew that she wasn't going to have as much confidence when we're alone.  Having the safety net of more experienced drivers and other vehicles around does make a difference to her.  And to me!  I wouldn't have done a lot of what I did on this trip if we were alone.


And Gary, have fun at the Christmas party!  I'm sure your grandkids will!  (I think Lesley is looking forward to having grandkids that we can take there some day!)

Glad to see that other 70+ year olds are getting into things like 'wheeling.  It is good to have a passion.  

And I agree with Lesley that going in a group is the way to do it when going on serious outings like you are doing.  The odds of something happening are pretty high, and having others to help pull you out of a hole or get you to the ER when you fall down is highly beneficial.  

As for the Magic Kingdom, we are stoked!  We get to have all of our kids and grandkids together under one roof again.  And doing something they'll love is icing on the cake!  

Lesley hadn't ever wanted to go 'wheeling with a group before.  But after enjoying the day in the ad hoc group on Double Sammy she was open to it.

Normally she does try to talk me out of some obstacles, so I kept expecting her to be uncomfortable when I was trying the harder trails.  But we did find that being in a group did raise her confidence level significantly.

I finally got the first video of the trip posted.  This was the first trail of the trip, so it wasn't the most exciting, but it was a pretty steep, loose hill with a big ledge to climb near the bottom and a rutted out section at the top that challenged the smaller tires in the group.  And lest anyone be too impressed by how easily I conquered the ledge compared to the others, I took what I thought was the easiest line.  All of the Jeeps in the video took a harder line, and the silver Toyota buggy took the hardest line.

You sure made it look easy!  And I can tell it is really steep given the problems that many had.

Apparently the last guy, the blue Jeep, doesn't have a front locker?  It looked like he should have been able to make it if he'd had one.

And that silver thing has a Toyota part in it?  What part?  It isn't recognizable but sure seems to work.

The blue Jeep at the end has a rear locker and a PowrLok in the front.  PowrLoks are maybe one of the most solid and most positive limited slips.  But it's no locker.

The silver buggy is really a lot more Toyota than you might think.  Body-wise I think it's just the hood, grill and front inner fenders.  But it's the stock frame, stock-ish axles (although it is a solid front axle from an earlier Toyota pickup) a stock engine and trans (I'm pretty sure it has some sort of "crawl box" transfer case with lower gearing).  The suspension is still leaf springs and single shocks, but obviously lifted and with more travel.  So the (lack of a) body is really the main non-Toyota thing.

(edit to add: Oops, I forgot I had told their story a few days earlier in this thread.  Oh well, here it is again)
By the way, Ed and Janice in that Toyota are an interesting couple.  They're probably in their 70s ad they just started 'wheeling a couple years ago.  They were surfing YouTube and watched some videos and thought "hey, maybe that's something we should do!"  They've obviously jumped in with both feet!  And in the next video I'm working to post you will see Ed spotting for Dale (who drives a bigger green Jeep).  Ed knows his stuff!

Lesley was impressed that Janice stays in the buggy as Ed looks for all of the hard lines.  When I talked to Janice about that she said that early on she did get out on a tougher obstacle once. Ed made it over safely and she slipped, fell and broke her wrist while she waited for him!  So she figures it's safer just to stay in the truck.


As far as me making it look easy, I bet Big Blue could have done as well on the line I took, even with a TrueTrac instead of a locker in the rear.  Yes it's steep, but it really wasn't a very hard line.

I didn't realize how important a true locker is.  That blue Jeep just couldn't get through that spot w/o one, which reminds me of a story - in a minute.

As for the Toyota buggy's owners, it is good to know there are others my age that want to do that kind of thing.  People seem to think we are "done" and can't do anything on our own.  Only last week the kid at O'Reilly's took the alternator for the Expedition from my left hand, handed me another one which I put in my right hand, and asked if I needed help getting out with it.  

As for the buggy itself, maybe I'll suggest that's what my son needs to do to his 4Runner if he wants to keep up with Big Blue.    Only this morning he was saying he needs to put a lift, lockers, and 33's on his.  So I told him the story about the guy my brother and I met on Engineer Mountain Road who'd put well over $10K into a recent 4Runner, including suspension, 33's, & lockers.  When we went to The Wall my brother and I went first and Mike didn't show up so I went back to see what was going on.  He was on his third attempt through a hole that BB putt putted through - without the front locker engaged.  Mike was spinning the rear tires and had one front tire in the air, finally engaging the front locker to get through, but even then it wasn't an easy go.

I don't know why Big Blue did so well on that trip, but my brother was blown away with the capabilities it displayed.  We only engaged the front locker once, and it was really just to try it out.  But now with the EFI I'm sure he'll do even better since it'll pull from idle right on up, which it wouldn't do then.

Speaking of the EFI, do none of the Jeeps on that trip have EFI?  I noticed that many of them had to crank quite a while after killing the engine.  The EFI has really made re-starting Big Blue far easier.

Lockers are less necessary if you can keep all 4 tires on the ground.  I don't know about Big Blue, but I know that my '85 F-250HD had a very ... supple frame.  It didn't have much travel in the front end (TTB with leaf springs) but it didn't lift a tire as much as you'd expect from a heavy duty truck.

I think all but Kris' blue Jeep had 2 lockers.  Most had one automatic and one selectable locker, but there was a little variety as to which locker was in which axle.  A couple had two selectables, and I think one or two might have had two automatics.

There was a mix of carbs and EFI on that trip.  The newer green Jeep (Dale) at the start of that video (it's a YJ Wrangler with a CJ5/CJ7 front clip), the first old green Jeep in the next video (Jeff) and an older red Jeep that'll show up eventually (Fuzz) are all running Chevy 4.3L V6 with EFI.  Ed's Toyota is a stock 22R with EFI.  The other old green Jeep (Alan), and the tan Jeep (Kevin) have carbs and '60s vintage V6 engines.  The blue Jeep (Kris) has the original flathead four cylinder with a carb.  I'm not sure what Wade's yellow Jeep has, I think it's a V6, but I have no idea on the fuel system.  There was another tan Jeep on the trip (JW) but I'm not sure he made it into any videos.  I'm pretty sure he had a carb and a 4 cylinder.  My carbed Bronco and Clint's radical turbo EFI side-by-side on 35" tires rounded out the group.

This next video is from a trail ominously named Bronco Buster  The trail is longer, but all of this video is from one obstacle where we were starting on the trail.  Jeff, Alan and Wade struggled in their older Jeeps to make it up the ledge, but none made it.  I only included a small portion of their attempts (Alan and Wade winched in the end, which isn't in the video).  Then Ed and Dale made it up in the bigger vehicles.  Not to be outdone, Jeff had another go at the end.  His motto is "we do what we can and try what we can't."  You can tell that it's a motto he lives by

At that point we had the choice of going with that group up Bronco Buster or going with some of the others who were going to find an easier way around.  Kevin and I decided to take the bypass and stick with the more ... adventurous group.  The bypass was a bit interesting as well with a sharp, off-camber turn that threatened to dump you into the hole the others had driven up from.  Kevin (no video of him on this trail, but he was in the tan Jeep in the first video) actually made it pretty easily, but it was a little more challenging in the bigger Bronco.

(by the way, if you hadn't noticed I set up these videos with "chapters" using the driver's names)

I hadn't thought about the frame flexing, but that could make a big difference.  That and the additional articulation from the D60 and SD springs may explain why it does so well.

Having said that, I don't want to do anything like you and the others are doing.  Man, that's amazing.  

Was Ed, the 70 year-old guy, the one in overalls spotting?  He seemed to know what he was doing.

I didn't go back to see which ones had to crank quite a while vs the ones you said have EFI.  Do you remember?

And I didn't notice initially about the chapters, but I read your post before I watched the video and do see what you've done.  That helps.  

I've said before that doing this kind of thing isn't for everyone!  If you want to get into it I'll probably be a bit of an enabler!  But if not, please don't feel any pressure from me.  If I say that Big Blue can do something I'm certainly not saying that you should let him!  That's up to you, and the most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing.


Yes, Ed is the guy in overalls.  And in spite of being pretty new to this, yes, he really knows what he's doing!


I don't think any of the Jeeps that I know have EFI had much trouble (Jeff in the more beat up green Jeep, Dale in the newer green Jeep or Fuzz in the red Jeep you haven't met yet).  Alan (other old green Jeep) and Kris (blue Jeep) both did a fair amount of cranking and both have carbs.  Ed also had a little more trouble with his EFI Toyota, but I think that was more driving style.  He didn't get very deep in the throttle ever and is running a manual trans, so he stalled out the little 4 cylinder more than the guys with V6s and heavier right feet.  As I recall his engine didn't just fire up every time, but it was  a lot quicker than the cranking of some of the carbs.

Interestingly, Alan (who probably had the most carb trouble) is running the same Autolite/Motorcraft 2100 2 bbl that I'm running.  It's widely considered at least one of the best (if not the best) carb for 'wheeling.  I know that when I had a stock Holley 4150 on my Jeep the biggest problem was fuel slosh.  Hit a rock and you'd dump a whole bunch of fuel down the throat, the engine would flood and you'd be cranking a lot to get it fired back up (go back and look at the very first video I posted and you'll hear a lot from my starter!).  I made that carb a lot better by adding vent baffles and I think one or two other mods that I don't recall right now.  But I haven't had as much trouble with the 2100.

I think we have different intents for our vehicles.  I want Big Blue to be able to go anywhere we want to go when overlanding, but that's typically done on fire roads and they aren't usually very demanding.  Having said that, Janey and I found one last year that she didn't want to go up, but it was just rock outcroppings that would have made it rough going.  So we didn't go.  But the truck would have done it just fine.

On the carb, float level can make a difference on extreme angles.  Too low can mean a lean mix that makes the engine hard to start.  But you are right, the 2100 is fairly immune to that due to its small bowl.

After Bronco Buster the main group decided to do V-Notch.  The last time I was there I watched a few of the Jeeps do that obstacle (here's a picture from the earlier trip) and that's not the kind of challenge I enjoy.


So I went with the vehicles that didn't want to risk our body work.  It took a little time to get back with the others, but we finally rejoined them on PeeWee Crossing as they were tackling a small ledge.  PeeWee Crossing is an easy trail that cuts through the entire park.  It's main purpose is to let you access the "real" trails, but every so often there is an optional obstacle that is worth video.  This is one of those.

I didn't get to see the others run it (you can see me turning onto the trail in the background as the last Jeep ahead of me is going up, that picture is also the thumbnail).  And the visibility over the hood of a Bronco didn't let me see it.  But I trusted my spotter, and other than a little more rock rash on my front bumper made it up unscathed.

I'm with you, I don't like V-Notch as something is sure to get damaged if I try it.

And that step is about what we saw at The Wall, which was far more than we wanted to try.  Big Blue's bumper must be lower than yours as I'm sure it would hit well before the wheels would.  But you made it through nicely.

And, Lesley was riding with you!  

V-notch obstacles are easy if you take the right line and give you body damage if you don't.  I'd rather do something that gives more of a feeling of accomplishment when you succeed.  And if there's less chance of sheetmetal damage, so much the better!

Lesley commented that there were a number of times when she wanted to get out but didn't feel like she could.  This was one of them, where we were getting to the obstacle after everyone else was done and she didn't want to hold things up.  Not that people would've minded, but she didn't want to put people out.

When that happened she generally enjoyed the ride (albeit with some apprehension!).  But she tells me not to expect that level of bravery when we're alone again!  But as long as she wants to go along, I'm fine if she wants to get out on the harder obstacles.  That's how I get pictures and video!