Gary Lewis

Nice truck for the price. I don't see any rust at all and it appears to be straight.

Great! You can give me some recommendations. As for Black Bear, the video makes it seem less difficult than it really is. But, I think Janey would be out walking most of the way down. I'm sure Big Blue could make it as he really isn't that much wider than a Jeep, but making those turns would be a real pain. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your report, including the pics. Be careful!

I'm dreaming about a trip I want to take next year, and thought I'd use this thread to capture some thoughts, recommendations, links, etc. So please feel free to comment. My hope is that I'll have Big Blue upgraded to EFI, ZF5, 3G, and a decent exhaust system early next year, and then I want to take him to CO to drive some trails. Janey has agreed to go, and the area we are targeting is around Ouray. That would let us use a hotel in Ouray as our base and drive the road/trails during the day, returning for a shower, hot meal, and soft bed each night. According to the Famous Trails website there are plenty of roads/trails available, and they run the gamut from easy to very difficult. Janey is going to want easy trails, but I'll at least want to tax Big Blue a bit so will want to tackle some moderate or difficult ones. However, I don't want anything dangerous, and Janey won't go if it is very difficult. Here are some other links: Trail & weather conditions Trails Offroad - Engineer Pass-Alpine Loop Connector Alpine Loop Status - Facebook Colorado's info on the Alpine Loop So, does anyone have experience there?

Thanks for the reference. Good to know that they are quick and will do what you want. How much of the interior do you have done?

Soon after I bought my truck, a coworker of mine asked me if it had the Cleveland engine...lol. He was clearly just taking a wild stab in the dark, as I had already told him it was a 302, but anyway...some people just do that. There were a couple brothers in my highschool that drove and old grey LTD....I'm thinking it was probably a 76 or 77, there abouts...and they always used to say that it had a "351 Wide Block" whatever that meant...lol. The 1981 Light Trucks Facts Organizer says that 351's were available in the Broncos. And, in 1981 the Windsors were not available in the F-Series or U-Series trucks, so it would have been the 351M. George Reid's book on Cleveland Engines says the M-Block was a Cleveland. I disagree. They were all 335 Series engines, not Clevelands. The theory is that Ford designated the engine we know as the "351C" a Cleveland because the vast majority of them were built at the Cleveland plant. But the M-Block engines were cast at one of three foundries: Dearborn Iron Foundry; Michigan Casting Centery; or Cleveland Foundry.

Thanks to Vinny we now have Ford's service manual on the 4180C on the site. I added it to the existing page on the 4180C: Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/Holley 4180C. And, I learned something - the trucks with a GVWR of 8600 lbs or greater didn't have a bowl vent.

Yes, page 10-00-20, at the top it says District Sales Office (DSO) and Wheelbase (WB) Codes. Thanks, grumpin. I've changed the scorecard. It is a dead-heat at the moment.

This will serve as our score sheet, and I'll come back and update it as new info is found: Ford official publications saying that DSO is anything but Domestic Special Order: 1980 Factory Shop Manual: Page 10-00-11 says "District Sales Office (DSO) Code" 1981 Factory Shop Manual: Page 10-00-16 says "District Sales Office (DSO) Code" 1985 Factory Shop Manual: Page 10-00-21 says "District Sales Office (DSO) Code" 1986 Factory Shop Manual: Page 10-00-20 says "District Sales Office (DSO) Code" Ford official publications saying that DSO is Domestic Special Order: 1981 Light Trucks Facts Organizer: Page 7 in General Information defines DSO as "domestic special order" 1982 Light Trucks Facts Organizer: Page 9 in General Information defines DSO as "domestic special order" 1983 Light Trucks Facts Organizer: Page 9 in General Information defines DSO as "domestic special order" 1980-1989 Master Parts Catalog: Page 12 defines DSO as "domestic special order" Grumpin or Bill - Do your 1986 FSM's say "District Sales Office (DSO) Code" on Page 10-00-21 or there abouts? I'll bet they do. That being the case, I think it is basically a draw - the FSM's say DSO is District Sales Office and the facts organizers and MPC define DSO as "domestic special order". I'd still like to gather more examples, but I am now coming to the conclusion that Bill was right and I was wrong - Ford used DSO to mean both "district sales office" and "domestic special order".

Rembrant - It is an interesting read, but I think it is a mix of truth and fiction and I don't know where one starts and the other stops. However, one fiction is that "every car ever built by Ford was in fact a special order". We've already shown that several Ford official documents say that "If the unit is regular production only the district code number will appear". So, to Ford the orders from the district offices were "regular production" and not a special order. And another proof that all orders were not "special orders" is the recurring statement in many of our books that any "special order" will have the complete number shown in the DSO spot. But yet we don't seem to have any trucks with big, long numbers in that spot. Just regular production trucks with the two-digit district code in that spot. I am constantly amazed at what gets published in books. Years ago I picked up the Red Book for Dodge Super Bees, and hadn't gotten very far and found a statement that all Super Bees had bright exhaust tips. Not true, and I had one that didn't have. In fact, I've shown with Chrysler publications that some Bees didn't get them. And, I found a survivor at Carlisle, PA w/o bright tips - which Galen Govier, the MOPAR guru, documented. Similarly, I found that George Reid's book on "Cleveland Engines" has a number of mistakes. He says in it that he interviewed Tim Meyer, so I chatted with Tim about it and he agreed it has a number of mistakes. The bottom line is that all books have mistakes in them - with the exception of the Bible, and even then man has introduced changes or interpreted it incorrectly. And that's why I'm wanting to compile a list of what Ford publications say about DSO. Grumpin - Thanks. We are now at 5 saying DSO is Domestic Special Order and 1 that says District Sales Office - although that one also uses DSO to mean "special order", and if FSO means Foreign Special Order then DSO must mean Domestic Special Order.

I agree - shouldn't be a Cleveland. And, should not be 330 HP if original. I don't see the HP ratings in my on-line version of the '81 dealers fact book, but the 1982 version gives the 5.8L Windsor 139 HP in the Bronco. That's a far cry from 330 HP.

Gary, I'm taking the other side of the coin on this one (all in good fun of course...lol). The way I perceive it, is that the DSO slot on the door jamb data tag would have nothing but the 2-digit district sales office number there probably 90% of time, if not more often. If a vehicle is a special order (DSO, LPO, or FPO) then those numbers would be in addition to the district number. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the numbers in the DSO slot are far more often going to reference the district sales office than a domestic special order. And, to take it even further, if a vehicle was an LPO or FPO, then all of the digits in that slot would have nothing at all to do with a domestic special order. However, I did read in my searches that prior to 1962, there was no district code, so the DSO slot was either left empty for a normal production vehicle, or it had digits IF the vehicle was a special order. It's interesting indeed. I think what you may find is that the true definition of DSO, at least when talking about the door data tags, changed and morphed over the years, so BOTH definitions of DSO are probably true it just depends on what vehicle you're looking at. Since my 1984 F150 is clearly not a special order of any kind, I'm stickin' to my guns that the DSO is the District Sales Office;). Let's see how many Ford documents we can find that say "district sales office" vs "domestic special order". I'll keep score, and right now I know of 1 (the 1981 FSM) that says district sales office and 4 (your 1984 FSM, my 1985 FSM, the 1980-89 MPC, and the 1983 dealers fact book) that say "domestic special order. I'll check my '81 and '82 dealer facts books and I'll bet it is 6:1. Bill, check your '86 FSM and I think we'll be at 7:1. Now if we can find '80, '82, '83, & '84 FSM's plus more of the dealer facts books maybe we can complete the picture.

Oh, ok. Do it and let us know?

Oh...never mind, I see that the other numbers above the DSO are referencing the axle capacities. So, my DSO is only shown as "B3", which is the region and nothing more. Carry on. Yes, dealerships ordered vehicles, but the vast majority were not "special orders". Very few were Domestic Special Order, Foreign Special Order, or Limited Production Option. So they just had the district code showing on them. My understanding is that things like Police Interceptors were DSO. As for what Marti says, I believe they are wrong. I've done a lot of reading on this, and with rare exception the Ford documentation says that DSO is Domestic Special Order. For instance, this excerpt from a '65 FSM. Or, take this excerpt from the Ford Mustang Red Book: Anyway, let's keep bouncing this around as I'd like to find a definitive answer.

So it has to be a certified collision repair facility? Hmmmm.....

Your FSM's verbiage is essentially the same as the MPC's, which I copy/pasted above. And yet it never truly says that DSO = District Sales Office. It says that the "district code" will appear in the DSO space. But the MPC specifically says that DSO = Domestic Special Order. So I think that Bill was wrong when he said that DSO stands for District Sales Office or Domestic Special Order. The term "district sales" does not appear in the master parts catalog, much less "district sales office". Not even "district office". Just "district code". So, I think DSO always means "Domestic Special Order" in official Fordspeak. The employees may well have used the term DSO to mean district sales office, but the publications don't support that, and it is the publications we are trying to interpret. Let me say this another way. According to what I read the appropriate terminology is: District Code, which is a two-digit code indicating the district office from which the order originated DSO = Domestic Special Order FSO = Foreign Special Order LPO = Limited Production Option But, the confusion arises because Ford used the "DSO" space on the certification label in 4 ways: 1. To indicate the district office which placed the order if no special order existed 2. To indicate the domestic special order number plus the district office that ordered it 3. To indicate the foreign special order number plus the district office that ordered it 4. To indicate the limited production option number plus the district office that ordered it UPDATE: I do have one publication that says DSO = District Sales Office. This is from the 1981 FSM on the page shown. However, my 1985 FSM does not say DSO = District Sales Office and I think the 1981 FSM is in error.

Good question. Also, try shifting into neutral or into a different gear to see if it changes.

There is supposedly a company that will repro the certification label. But I don't remember who that is, so hope someone else will respond. They wouldn't be easily reproduced at home since they are two-part. The base is just a template that has no info on it, but the clear overlay has the info and info has a tendency to go away when you pull the overlay off.

Folks - I need your help thinking through something. So please read the explanation below and let me know if you agree with my understanding. I think I've just understood something that has confused me for some time. And that has to do with the term "DSO". A few years ago Bill/NumberDummy told me that it stands for District Sales Office or Domestic Special Order. And while that appears to be true, I didn't understand how one spot on the certification label could serve both functions. But, I think I now understand. The master parts catalog says this on Page 12: And on the next two pages it explains that: D.S.O. = Domestic Special Order F.S.O. = Foreign Sales Office L.P.O. = Limited Production Option So, here's my understanding of the above. For regular production vehicles the District Code will show in the DSO spot on the certification label. But for domestic or foreign special orders or orders with limited production options the DSO, FSO, or LPO code will appear there in addition to the District Code. But, the verbiage in the catalog that is supposed to explain how the DSO # on the certification label works is confusing to me. It says: But that's not quite true since a special order (DSO, FSO, or LPO) number could be there as well, and that would confuse things significantly. Do you agree with my new-found understanding? If so, I will upgrade the explanation on the certification label page.

The dealership where Dad's truck was purchased has moved from the original building close to downtown in my hometown to out on the hill in a modern building. I haven't talked to them about the truck, but suppose I should. As for Big Blue, I got tons of documentation with the truck, but haven't figured out where the truck was originally purchased. The DSO of "76" on the certification label says it was delivered to a dealership in the Denver district. But the doc's don't show where, and the Carfax that Vernon ran doesn't tell either. In fact, the first location mentioned wasn't until 2006 when the truck was sold.

Do you have any salvages nearby? Any wiring harness for a DS-II ignition system can be made to work, although for a perfect fit it needs to be for a 460. However, all the DS-II harnesses had the same wiring, it is just that the sending units, like for oil pressure and temp, were in different places, as was the distributor. So the length of the wires may be wrong. Plus, if you have a factory tach a harness from a 300 six won't have the ground that tells the tach to go into 8 cylinder mode. But that can easily be added.

Those are called COVER (SEAT SHOULDER STRAP RETRACTOR) and you can find the illustrations and part numbers here: Interior/Interior Trim. Go to the Illustrations tab and then Bronco tab and scroll all the way to the bottom for the drawing. And the part numbers are on the Part Numbers tab, oddly enough. (That's the only part numbers, and they just appeared tonight.) I can't tell you where to find them, but once you have the part number you can search for them. And, since you can paint them you don't have to find them in your color.

Since Cinamon was asking about crossmembers I put up a new page: Suspension & Steering/Crossmembers. It has the info for all 1980 - 1989 trucks so you can cross-reference and see if a later truck has what you need.

Since I dislike having to find snippets of info in threads, I put the crossmember illustrations and part numbers up on a new page: Suspension & Steering/Crossmembers.

The pan/dip stick issue is a problem with Big Blue as well. I have a later model pan going on where the dip stick has an o-ring to seal instead of that nut. On Dad's engine the gasket between the adapter that is riveted to the pan and the pan itself failed. I drilled the rivets out, tapped the adapter, and used The Right Stuff to make the seal. As for the harness, when they get that bad you have no choice but to replace them. But they aren't easily found. Good luck.

You did get in. Good! Welcome! Post up some pics. But, the max pic size is 1Mb w/o clicking one of the "resize" buttons. Oil leaks. Yuk! Big Blue has them in spades and the engine is coming out this fall to fix them - as well as a few other things. What's wrong with the wiring harness? Just looked up Edwards. I'll bet you have lots of outdoor opportunities. I'm hoping to get up to Ouray with Big Blue next year to take some of the roads like the Alpine Loop.