Starting issues

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
41 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Starting issues

Invisibleman13
Before I ask my question, I've been through this forum and several others and have followed the steps to figure out the issue. My 1985 Bronco with a 351W won't start or crank. I've replaced the starter, battery, solenoid, battery cables and starter cable. Still have no start or crank. I've double checked the wiring diagram to make sure everything is properly hooked up, and all is good with that part. Battery is charged. When I turn the key, I get nothing. No click or anything. Is there something I have possibly missed? Any help would be appreciated.
1985 Bronco XLT 351W C6
2005 Mustang GT
2015 XL883N
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

Whisler
Do you have power other than starting, i.e. lights, dash, radio?
God Bless
Whisler

Frankenstein: 1989 F250 4X4, C-6, Hurst Pro-Matic 2 shifter, carbed '84 351W, Edelbrock manifold, Edlbrock AVS, DS2 ignition, 3G alternator, JBA shorty headers, no cats, dual exhaust with H pipe.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

old55pete
In reply to this post by Invisibleman13
Take a screw driver, remove the small wire off of the starter relay. Jump it with the screwdriver from the batt  stud to the small stud and see if the engine spins over. if it does then you can move on to the nutral safety switch. or the ignition switch or fuesable links.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Invisibleman13
Are you certain the starter cable (and ONLY the starter cable) is connected to the rear lug of the relay?

All the other cables with an eyelet connect with the positive battery cable to the forward stud.
Those smaller wires with a rubber lug are fusible links.
But it's very unlikely that all of them would fail at once.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

Invisibleman13
In reply to this post by Whisler
Yes, the lights and power windows work. The truck doesn't have a radio. I tried to jump it with a screwdriver and still nothing. Nuetral safety switch was replaced when the transmission was rebuilt in February, but I suppose it could have gone bad. And yes, all of the connections are properly made on the starter relay.
1985 Bronco XLT 351W C6
2005 Mustang GT
2015 XL883N
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
If you can't jump it with a screwdriver there isn't much left.
Can you get the relay to click?

Either the ground from the block to battery is disconnected or the starter is dead.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

old55pete
In reply to this post by Invisibleman13
When you jumped the starter relay on the fender with the screw driver, did it make a clunking noise? If not the relay( even tho it is new) may be bad. Take a pair of jumper cables and ground the ground side of the battery to the engine block and hook up the hot lead to the pos side of the battery and touch it to the starter side of the relay(cable that goes to the starter). If the starter turns, the relay is bad. If that doesent work, take the hot lead( pos cable) and touch it to the stud on the starter that the cable from the relay is bolted to. if the starter turns, it is good and the cable from the relay may be bad. As an after thought, try hooking up the jumper cable to the Neg post on the battery to a good ground on the engine and try the key. If it spins over, you have a bad ground cable from the battery to the engine.

All of the above is by passing the ignition switch and the nuteral safety switch except the ground cable part of it.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
You don't need jumper cables.

You can use a wrench with a big enough head to pass over the divider or you can simply remove the starter cable and touch it to the hot side stud.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

Invisibleman13
In reply to this post by old55pete
There was no "clunk" when I jumped the relay with the screwdriver. While taking the relay off in anticipation of replacing it, I noticed that the two wires that have the fuseable links attached, were "arced" together at the eyelet. I'm not sure how that happened, but it did.
1985 Bronco XLT 351W C6
2005 Mustang GT
2015 XL883N
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Was the battery cable on top of them or beneath them?

Have you tried touching the battery cable to the starter cable on the other stud?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

Invisibleman13
I tried touching the battery cable to the starter cable side and got nothing. The wires were attached to the relay with the two with the fuseable links first, then the battery. Is there a possibility that those fuseable links went bad?
1985 Bronco XLT 351W C6
2005 Mustang GT
2015 XL883N
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
If you say touching the battery positive and starter cables did nothing then either the starter or battery ground to the block is bad or disconnected.

You've taken everything else out of the system.

The fusible link eyelets could have welded together if the battery positive had to flow through them.
But I have a really hard time seeing how that could happen.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

Invisibleman13
Those will be tomorrow projects. I've been out in 95 degree weather all day, I'm beat.
1985 Bronco XLT 351W C6
2005 Mustang GT
2015 XL883N
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Invisibleman13
In your first post you say you have changed all the components in the loop.

I assume you changed them because the starter wasn't working before?
But when you try these things (jumping the S terminal with a screwdriver, touching the cables directly together) you have no response at all?
You don't hear anything? See any sparks or smoke?

You obviously have good power going to the cab.
Power windows take considerable current.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

kramttocs
Sounds like it's time to pull the starter and take it in to your local auto parts store for testing.
Scott
Daily driver: 'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
Work truck: 'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/T18 - Gin Pole
Various parts trucks
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I'd say that too Scott.

But I'm trying to understand why it was doing this before invisible man changed every component of the starting system...

I mean if the battery, cables, relay and starter are all 'new' as stated, and he still can't get the relay to click, or the starter to turn when the cables are connected directly what's left?
It's obviously not a fault of the NSS or ignition switch.

I could see a faulty relay or it's not grounded well to the fender, that's not inconceivable.
But if you have lights and power windows in the cab but when you touch the starter cable with the battery positive and get 'nothing' something very odd is going on.

Even if the engine were seized or hydrolocked you'd get sparks and the starter struggling.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

kramttocs
I agree Jim. I would definitely expect something to happen when touching the battery cable to the starter. My only guess at this point would be something in the starter is fried so the positive lug is completely isolated.  
Scott
Daily driver: 'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
Work truck: 'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/T18 - Gin Pole
Various parts trucks
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
But the one before this, AND the new one???

I can't make it add up.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

kramttocs
It does seem like that would be inconceivable(!).

I see Steve mentioned earlier about using jumper cables to directly ground one of the starter mounting bolts to the battery. Was that tried?
Scott
Daily driver: 'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
Work truck: 'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/T18 - Gin Pole
Various parts trucks
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Starting issues

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I think it needs to be tried.

But if:
A) the relay won't pull in.
B) the ground cable has just been changed (assuming it's tight) then I suspect something else is afoot.

What that could be is beyond me with the information presented.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
123