Another Flareside: "Silver"

Boiled linseed oil will oxidize and turn dark over time
Take a look at any old masters painting that has been restored.
All they've done is remove yellowed varnish and centuries of grime.

That is undisputed, and happens faster when exposed to sunlight.
True pure Tung oil is better in this regard than linseed, but any drying oil exposed to light will darken over time.
It's just the nature of the beast.

If it was new wood I might suggest an oil varnish mix. (Wiping varnish)
In the traditional mix like Tage Frid's FFF; drying oils, wax and resin or rosin are thinned with solvent and applied with a brush or rag and then wiped off.

This is the original 'wiping varnish' or 'danish oil'
Current products using these names are usually just polyurethane and or alkyd varnish thinned with mineral spirits.
None have the wax or rosin that offer protection from the elements.

Wow great info...you guys are a wealth of knowledge thank you.  Boiled Linseed it is then!

It's interesting, it's like the painted top layer of the plywood held up really well.  The back edge, by the tailgate, is soft from water ingress on the edge though.  Some of the wood underneath that top layer of plywood (about a foot back from the tailgate in one section) is eaten away.

I was thinking of pulling the bed and trying to fix that somehow with epoxy or some other substance that would fill it in.  Id have to somehow contain it though.  Maybe wood filler... or a half inch thick piece of plywood underneath, leaving the top 1/4 inch of the old wood.  If you have any brainstorms there let me know, havent gotten into it yet.

Epoxy is a great answer to rot and other deterioration.
There are hardners formulated for UV exposure.
It will consolidate the remaining wood fibers and once cured the wood (if properly treated with it) becomes impervious to water.
First, it needs to be dry.
Gentle heating prior to application helps immensely.
1)The warmth lowers the viscosity of the epoxy, allowing it to penetrate deeper
2) by pre-warming the wood, bubbles are lessened, because as it is cooling the wood is drawing in.
And the epoxy's own exotherm is not causing the dry wood's interstitial air to expand.

Then an unthickened epoxy needs to be continuously applied until saturated.

Wood, after all, is natures composite.
When the fiber gets loose and is then embedded in a matrix of epoxy instead, it cannot take up water anymore because the pores are full of solidified plastic already.

Some good reading on wood and rot repair can be found on the Gugoen Brothers website under the topics of EpoxyWorks back issues (library)

Actually I didn't see your reply about BLO darkening over time... Hmm.  

I know that I've seen Tung oil available and was looking into it.  Do you think, of the readily available products, that it would be the best?

The truck isn't going to see much weather, unless it's sitting at my mechanics garage.  In a monsoon. like last week. :(  But that's another story...  Maybe the Danish oil could work then in that regard but if it doesn't give much protection than perhaps not worth it.

Thanks Jim for this also - the good info on epoxy, and the reference to the Gugoen Bros website ....

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Epoxy is a great answer to rot and other deterioration.
There are hardners formulated for UV exposure.
It will consolidate the remaining wood fibers and once cured the wood (if properly treated with it) becomes impervious to water.
First, it needs to be dry.
Gentle heating prior to application helps immensely.
1)The warmth lowers the viscosity of the epoxy, allowing it to penetrate deeper
2) by pre-warming the wood, bubbles are lessened, because as it is cooling the wood is drawing in.
And the epoxy's own exotherm is not causing the dry wood's interstitial air to expand.

Then an unthickened epoxy needs to be continuously applied until saturated.

Wood, after all, is natures composite.
When the fiber gets loose and is then embedded in a matrix of epoxy instead, it cannot take up water anymore because the pores are full of solidified plastic already.

Some good reading on wood and rot repair can be found on the Gugoen Brothers website under the topics of EpoxyWorks back issues (library)

Here is a shot of the area that I put a little BLO on.  I then worked on it a bit with 0000 steel wool.  It was quite dark at first, but it lightened quite a bit.

Trying to decide if I like the look.  Hard to tell, but I think it will bring out all the old interesting wear on the bed nicely.  I figure at this point, the old bed deserves one more try at life just "because"

Heres a shot immediately after trying the BLO, but before sanding.  You can see why I was telling myself "oh brilliant, nice inconspicuous spot" :)   It lightened nicely.

Significantly, you can see the progression of color that I'm trying to highlight and preserve:  Silver up front, with silver bedstrips, that progresses to the red primer, and then finally just wood (and bed strips with primer).  

I'm going to do a really solid cleanup job this weekend and see how it looks before messing any more with the wood finish and oils

That bed floor is in pretty decent condition for it's age. The fact that there's still some silver paint on there is impressive in it's own right. I dunno Ken...if I was in your shoes I think I'd be pretty torn over what to do. I look at that and part of me likes it looking original like it is, and part of me would want to see some new wood and strips in there. If it was my truck, I'd probably lose sleep over it...lol.

Oh!  I love that bed.  
The patina it's developed tells a story about your truck, and its age.

I've been a materials science geek since childhood.
My father was director of engineering for a few plastics companies and an electronics engineer in astronautics, radio spectrum, metrology and medical implementation.

Yes, of course the silver paint has protected the wood.
It is truly opaque and reflects most of the sun's rays, in addition to being some of the best waterproofing available.

This all is documented on the West System website. Look for MEE (Moisture Exclusion Effectiveness)
These brothers -Jan and Meade- had done incredible amounts of lab testing to quantify and promote their epoxy business.

They also built an incredible array of boats, yachts and structures in an era when man made composites were pretty much limited to fiberglass/polyester.

Anything you use on the bed surface is going to darken it somewhat.
What gives it that light, weathered appearance is refraction between the cells, where the lignin has broken down and washed away.

Think of a plane of glass.
If you shattered it and put it in a pile, this is the effect you're getting.
If you put it in a pail and filled the pail with water or oil the shards would mostly disappear.

It is somewhat counter to the idea of preserving the wood, but if you want to keep that look, you probably want to clean it best you can. Let it dry thoroughly. Then apply dusting coats of a water white catalyzed lacquer.
You don't want to soak it in, and unlike traditional lacquer you don't want the next coat to dissolve the last.

Once the surface is encapsulated you can apply wet coats of a matte lacquer to build a finish that protects it (somewhat) from the elements and doesn't appear 'plastic'

These are just my thoughts as someone who has been building furniture and cabinets for most of their adult life.

Rembrant, laughed out loud because literally last night I was looking at pics of your new wood floor earlier in the thread and was like "oooh, ahhh".    I figure that I can always go new but can't go old, so I'll give patina a chance...

Jim again a huge thanks on the recommendation, appreciate your good knowledge on this.  Started looking up Catalyzed Lacquer, if I can't find it locally I'll order it straight away.  

When you say "dusting coats" I assume really really light coats with whatever applicator (rag etc) so it just gets on the surface... no touching or steel wool between coats, just a few very light coats?   Then Matte lacquer on top.  How many coats would you aim for?  

This leaves the problem of the spot that I already applied BLO to.  I'm thinking that I'll need to sand that down to blend it back into the old patina.

One more question:  Besides cleaning the bed well with soap and water, what else would you do?  

Would you lightly scuff it with the steel wool for instance or just leave untouched?

Man am I glad I don't have to worry about the wood in my flare side bed
Dave ----

LOL!! Nice Dave, happy for you -

FuzzFace2 wrote

Man am I glad I don't have to worry about the wood in my flare side bed
Dave ----

Dave,

You have the upside on this one for sure. As much as I like the wood for showcase purposes, I sure do like the idea of your bed floor for utility purposes. After all the work I've done to mine...I've basically lost the ability to use it as a truck. I honestly don't mind wrecking the plywood...it's not expensive...but the freshly painted bed and all new steel is what bothers me (the risk of scratching/scuffing/denting it).

I'm watching Ken's progress here very closely. Can't wait to see what he does and how it turns out.

Dave, your family was (is?) In the auto body trade.

I'm sure you understand the process to seal silicone contamination.
This is much,if not exactly, the same.
Spray light 'dust' coats over it, until you can thoroughly seal it in.

Ah wait!  <light goes on> You're talking about that initial coat being a spray, not applied from a can!  Got it...  

Right.

With silicone, you can't get a 'wet' surface because the oil will break surface tension creating fish eyes and float to the top of the finish you've just applied.
You can continue this cycle (seemingly) forever.

So after doing our best to dilute and dry off the silicone oil, we try to bridge over it before putting the 'real' finish on.

In your case, you are trying not to flood the wood cells in order to preserve that weathered look.
This is really the opposite of an oil finish which you want to soak into the wood in order to give 'depth' to the surface.

At any rate you already have that one spot oiled so you may as well do the whole bed like that.
Because you can't "undo" what has already soaked in.
Thinning the BLO might allow it to penetrate deeper, but if you thin it enough there will only be a very little bit left once the carrier solvent evaporates.

Once you have an even effect (the graduated look you want) then give the oil time to cure before sealing it as I may have suggested above.

Drying oils polymerize because of oxygen in the air.
If you deprive them of this two things happen.
1) you've just put your finish on top of an oily surface that is shrinking as it crosslinking, leading to finish crunching up in ridges lhat look like a magnified finger print.
2) the oils affinity for oxygen will have it trying to open pores in the finish.

Horrid Fate has a purple HVLP gun on sale for under $10.
If you don't have a compressor you can get aerosol cans of sealers and 2k clear at most any auto body supply store.

Rembrant wrote

FuzzFace2 wrote

Man am I glad I don't have to worry about the wood in my flare side bed
Dave ----

Dave,

You have the upside on this one for sure. As much as I like the wood for showcase purposes, I sure do like the idea of your bed floor for utility purposes. After all the work I've done to mine...I've basically lost the ability to use it as a truck. I honestly don't mind wrecking the plywood...it's not expensive...but the freshly painted bed and all new steel is what bothers me (the risk of scratching/scuffing/denting it).

I'm watching Ken's progress here very closely. Can't wait to see what he does and how it turns out.

I do still worry about scratching / denting the side panels & tail gate just not the floor LOL

I know sooner or later they will get banged up but trying to make that a lot later than sooner so I am careful when using the bed.

Today was the only day I did not take the truck to work this week. We had a snow storm come thru after I go home yesterday and with ice & snow on the roads did not want to risk driving it.
Tomorrow is take the trash to the dump and will use the P/U as the roads are pretty clear now.
Dave ----

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Dave, your family was (is?) In the auto body trade.

I'm sure you understand the process to seal silicone contamination.
This is much,if not exactly, the same.
Spray light 'dust' coats over it, until you can thoroughly seal it in.

Yes was in the body trade.
Dealing with metal is a little easier than with wood.
Metal you can wipe the panel down with a wax & grease remover, Prep-Sol is what I use.
On wood the oil gets pulled into the pours and I don't know what can be used to pull it back out or even it could be?

For paint if you think there may still be oil on the panels there is a product called Fish Eye Killer.
It is clear but kind of thick like 20-50 motor oil. You add 1 drop to the cup when mixing before spraying.
I don't know if that could be used with anything else but used it withal the different types of auto paint back in the day.

BTW you cant have any tool oilers in a body shop. They are placed at the wall before the air hose.
This tool oil coats the inside of the air hose so it cant be used for body work (air tools like sanders & grinders) as it stays in the hose so we just don't have tool oilers.
What do we use you ask? Fish Eye Killer, a few drops in the air tool and hook it up and use it.
When it comes out on the panel when using its not to big a deal as the Prep-Sol will clean it off.

You also hinted when painting if you do get fish eyes and don't have the killer is to let the coat of paint set up pretty good and do dusting coats till the fish eyes are covered but this could take a while to do.

Hope I answered the question
Dave ----

Dave,
Fish eye killer is just emulsified silicone oil.
Kinda if you can't beat em, join em.

I wouldn't put that in any of my guns.

You're right on if silicone gets into the pores of wood.
I was just trying to make an analogy that would be understood by this audience.

To preserve the silver/gray of the weathered bed, you can't saturate it with finish.
Much like you can't put a wet coat on a contaminated surface.