85lebaront2 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I looked again at your original message. From the sechematic, they are supposed to fire twice. 2 injectors are supposed to fire at the same time. Its hard wired this way. so whats going on? does it not start, not run, backfire? Nick & George, use the 1986 EVTM on here to see the correct diagrams. Bank fired systems, if I remember correctly, fire the injectors in two groups, on a V8 they are 1458 and 2367. (end 4 and center 4). Not having a bank fired system to experiment with, I can't tell if they fire once per crank revolution or twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsmblue Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Nick & George, use the 1986 EVTM on here to see the correct diagrams. Bank fired systems, if I remember correctly, fire the injectors in two groups, on a V8 they are 1458 and 2367. (end 4 and center 4). Not having a bank fired system to experiment with, I can't tell if they fire once per crank revolution or twice. You should link your other thread here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Nick & George, use the 1986 EVTM on here to see the correct diagrams. Bank fired systems, if I remember correctly, fire the injectors in two groups, on a V8 they are 1458 and 2367. (end 4 and center 4). Not having a bank fired system to experiment with, I can't tell if they fire once per crank revolution or twice. Ok...I may have a theory...I have bought a flat tapped cam of the 351W cause it was recommended me by someone at the fullsizebronco forum while restaurating my 302 to a 347 stroker. But regarding the ignition I still use the distributor and the ICM of the 302...may there there be the possibility, that the 302 distributor/hall/icm is different regarding the signals they send out to the ECU while driven by the 351W cam? I have seen on rockauto.com that the ICM of 302 and 351W have different part numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 12 Brutus Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Ok. First the truck runs...but as rich as it can be...all 8 injectors fire the same time, twice per revolution. I have had some posts before...end of last year. No backfire...it almost make sounds that it's drowning in fuel...also all 8 spark plugs are wet after some minutes of running the engine. Gary and others have also mentioned, that this is wrong. As you said, it should be a sequential injection with two channels firing at different times. Regarding to your last measurement...yellow is SPOUT on my connector...this should have 12v all times hot, also with ignition off? Here is my old connector...I also have changed it while searching the failure... 20230115_170750.jpg ok -the yellow i'm talking about is located on the EEC relay , this wire should have battery voltage on it all the time . The EEC relay connects the yellow wire to the red wire giving it battery voltage also when the ign switch is in RUN , but i don't think this is your problem . as far as the EEC relay , the diagram doesn't show where the relay coil connects to on the ign switch , that is -does the relay energize in run or in run AND stunt . When the truck is in STUNT it fires a hotter spark / hikes up the fuel pump and and messes with the timing . maybe somehow something is staying in stunt , this WOULD DEFINITELY cause the problem you are having In my opinion, i'd start with the ignition switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 12 Brutus Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 ok -the yellow i'm talking about is located on the EEC relay , this wire should have battery voltage on it all the time . The EEC relay connects the yellow wire to the red wire giving it battery voltage also when the ign switch is in RUN , but i don't think this is your problem . as far as the EEC relay , the diagram doesn't show where the relay coil connects to on the ign switch , that is -does the relay energize in run or in run AND stunt . When the truck is in STUNT it fires a hotter spark / hikes up the fuel pump and and messes with the timing . maybe somehow something is staying in stunt , this WOULD DEFINITELY cause the problem you are having In my opinion, i'd start with the ignition switch Ford ignition switches love to get sticky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 ok -the yellow i'm talking about is located on the EEC relay , this wire should have battery voltage on it all the time . The EEC relay connects the yellow wire to the red wire giving it battery voltage also when the ign switch is in RUN , but i don't think this is your problem . as far as the EEC relay , the diagram doesn't show where the relay coil connects to on the ign switch , that is -does the relay energize in run or in run AND stunt . When the truck is in STUNT it fires a hotter spark / hikes up the fuel pump and and messes with the timing . maybe somehow something is staying in stunt , this WOULD DEFINITELY cause the problem you are having In my opinion, i'd start with the ignition switch So, now I'm completely confused...EEC realy? Where is this located? I thought you have meant the ignition control module... But back to my question before...how is it possible That the 302 and the 351W have different ignition control modules without any differences inside? If there's no difference, why do they have different part numbers? The HAL sensors have the same part numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 So, now I'm completely confused...EEC realy? Where is this located? I thought you have meant the ignition control module... But back to my question before...how is it possible That the 302 and the 351W have different ignition control modules without any differences inside? If there's no difference, why do they have different part numbers? The HAL sensors have the same part numbers... Ok...I was wrong...the ignition control module of the 302 and 351W have the same product numbers, comparing the articles from motorcraft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 So, now I'm completely confused...EEC realy? Where is this located? I thought you have meant the ignition control module... But back to my question before...how is it possible That the 302 and the 351W have different ignition control modules without any differences inside? If there's no difference, why do they have different part numbers? The HAL sensors have the same part numbers... Is this the relay directly oder the right side of the ECU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 12 Brutus Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Nick & George, use the 1986 EVTM on here to see the correct diagrams. Bank fired systems, if I remember correctly, fire the injectors in two groups, on a V8 they are 1458 and 2367. (end 4 and center 4). Not having a bank fired system to experiment with, I can't tell if they fire once per crank revolution or twice. there is a relay , i'm not sure where it would be located, but it is connected between the ignition switch and the ecu. it is on the schematic diagram you sent me, its right next to the ecu. Start at the ignition switch, like i said earlier, this sounds like the truck is running in stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 there is a relay , i'm not sure where it would be located, but it is connected between the ignition switch and the ecu. it is on the schematic diagram you sent me, its right next to the ecu. Start at the ignition switch, like i said earlier, this sounds like the truck is running in stunt. Ok. Maybe I can identify regarding to the cable colors...what do you mean with "stunt"? I can preform the KOEO test...would this work without this relay? I have to bring the kids to bed...after this I will search the relay and check it... Regarding to all the electronics in this car, I'm wondering why there are so few relays...my 1986 Jeep CJ7 has much more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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