ReneH Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Question still comes on the TFI module, is it the correct one? Pictures of the 4 different styles and which pin is which: The question is, as I have already changed the ignition control module without any effect, is it possible That the engine runs as you see in my videos with a defect HALL sensor that causes this double injection... In my understanding, there isn't much more to replace than I have already done...surely, without success up to now... If there is no relay or another electrical part involved in the injection circuit, there are two reasons left, as far as I can assess...: 1. HALL sensor / distributor 2. Wiring of the ignition control module What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 The question is, as I have already changed the ignition control module without any effect, is it possible That the engine runs as you see in my videos with a defect HALL sensor that causes this double injection... In my understanding, there isn't much more to replace than I have already done...surely, without success up to now... If there is no relay or another electrical part involved in the injection circuit, there are two reasons left, as far as I can assess...: 1. HALL sensor / distributor 2. Wiring of the ignition control module What do you think? unfortunately, I have to say that when a problem arises. very often it is related to the last thing touched. I see a lot of wiring that is not from the factory. although it looks well done to me it may not to the ecu. as was stated earlier in this thread or another here recently the batch fire operates two from each bank each time. you really need to verify that the engine wiring harness is correct before going down any other path. the factories all use multicolored wiring for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 unfortunately, I have to say that when a problem arises. very often it is related to the last thing touched. I see a lot of wiring that is not from the factory. although it looks well done to me it may not to the ecu. as was stated earlier in this thread or another here recently the batch fire operates two from each bank each time. you really need to verify that the engine wiring harness is correct before going down any other path. the factories all use multicolored wiring for this reason. Matt - I agree. Rene - Here's what I'd do: 1. Disconnect the ECU from the injector wiring, only, and connect my LEDs to the injector outputs. In other words, one LED to 58 and one to 59. Then I'd crank it to see that there is one pulse on each LED per turn of the distributor and that they flash at different times. 2. Connect the injector wiring up and put one LED on the wire from 58 and one on 59. Crank the engine and see if the flashes are the same as with the wires disconnected. If the flashes are the same then the wiring is ok. But if the flashes are different then you have a wiring problem. Then we can move on to the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Matt - I agree. Rene - Here's what I'd do: 1. Disconnect the ECU from the injector wiring, only, and connect my LEDs to the injector outputs. In other words, one LED to 58 and one to 59. Then I'd crank it to see that there is one pulse on each LED per turn of the distributor and that they flash at different times. 2. Connect the injector wiring up and put one LED on the wire from 58 and one on 59. Crank the engine and see if the flashes are the same as with the wires disconnected. If the flashes are the same then the wiring is ok. But if the flashes are different then you have a wiring problem. Then we can move on to the next step. Gary, other than disconnecting the injector harness, that was my last suggestion except I was adding in the coil pulse to see if he is getting a double injector pulse. I believe (can't find all my old documentation) that is the way the bank fired systems work, maybe mat can confirm as I haven't had a bank fired Ford system since 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Matt - I agree. Rene - Here's what I'd do: 1. Disconnect the ECU from the injector wiring, only, and connect my LEDs to the injector outputs. In other words, one LED to 58 and one to 59. Then I'd crank it to see that there is one pulse on each LED per turn of the distributor and that they flash at different times. 2. Connect the injector wiring up and put one LED on the wire from 58 and one on 59. Crank the engine and see if the flashes are the same as with the wires disconnected. If the flashes are the same then the wiring is ok. But if the flashes are different then you have a wiring problem. Then we can move on to the next step. Ok...either I don't understand what you mean, or I already have done it This is how have made my tests in the video. I only used the original wiring through the firewall... So, if nothing, like a relay or something is between the firewall and the ECU in line 58 and 59...I have the leds connected directly to these pins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Ok...either I don't understand what you mean, or I already have done it This is how have made my tests in the video. I only used the original wiring through the firewall... So, if nothing, like a relay or something is between the firewall and the ECU in line 58 and 59...I have the leds connected directly to these pins... Bill - I am not very familiar with the speed density systems either, having jumped from carb to sequential/MAF. (As you know.) Rene - When you shot the video did you just have the LEDs connected to power and didn't have the injectors connected as well? If so, then you did what I suggested in Step 1. But in that it appeared to me that both LEDs were flashing at the same time. If so, I don't think that is correct. Otherwise Ford wouldn't have had two outputs on the ECU. Did they both flash at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Bill - I am not very familiar with the speed density systems either, having jumped from carb to sequential/MAF. (As you know.) Rene - When you shot the video did you just have the LEDs connected to power and didn't have the injectors connected as well? If so, then you did what I suggested in Step 1. But in that it appeared to me that both LEDs were flashing at the same time. If so, I don't think that is correct. Otherwise Ford wouldn't have had two outputs on the ECU. Did they both flash at the same time? Hey Gary, that's exactly what I have done and, yes, both flash at the same time. I'm with you that this can't be normal. As you said, it makes no sense to have two single outputs. I currently only can imagine that the ECU gets two times the signal for both cylinders from the distributor...either from the HAL sensor or the PIP signal gets disturbed...that's my current theory...I think it's the 20th or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Hey Gary, that's exactly what I have done and, yes, both flash at the same time. I'm with you that this can't be normal. As you said, it makes no sense to have two single outputs. I currently only can imagine that the ECU gets two times the signal for both cylinders from the distributor...either from the HAL sensor or the PIP signal gets disturbed...that's my current theory...I think it's the 20th or so... Lol! Yep, sometimes it takes a lot of theories to finally find the right one. If the distributor is giving spurious signals then the ECU could be confused and give twice as many signals to fire as are needed. But why fire both banks at the same time? Is there any chance that the wiring between where you are connecting and the ECU is shorted between the two outputs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Lol! Yep, sometimes it takes a lot of theories to finally find the right one. If the distributor is giving spurious signals then the ECU could be confused and give twice as many signals to fire as are needed. But why fire both banks at the same time? Is there any chance that the wiring between where you are connecting and the ECU is shorted between the two outputs? Good point Gary. Rene, the firewall penetration is a large rubber oval that, with the two underhood harnesses unplugged, should be able to be removed for inspection. I was trying to find the pictures I had of a harness set I sold that was from a 1986, still the same setup, just different markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Lol! Yep, sometimes it takes a lot of theories to finally find the right one. If the distributor is giving spurious signals then the ECU could be confused and give twice as many signals to fire as are needed. But why fire both banks at the same time? Is there any chance that the wiring between where you are connecting and the ECU is shorted between the two outputs? No, I have connected an Ohmmeter between the cable lt. Green/green and tan/Red. Both should route directly to the ECU, as far as I know. I have measured no connection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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