JimJam300 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Why not a smaller truck like a 4cyl Lima Ranger or 22RE Toyota? Either one can easily get 20+ mpg with the right spec. From what I've been seeing on the FordSix forums, you can still get good fuel economy while greatly increasing horsepower on the 300. I'm shooting for 200+ whp on my Bronco and even with a T19 the users there assured me I should get at least 18mpg highway. No turbo, just full bolt ons and aftermarket EFI. From what I've heard, an M5OD shifts pretty slick in comparison to a ZF5 and first gear will be more usable in every day situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Why not a smaller truck like a 4cyl Lima Ranger or 22RE Toyota? Either one can easily get 20+ mpg with the right spec. From what I've been seeing on the FordSix forums, you can still get good fuel economy while greatly increasing horsepower on the 300. I'm shooting for 200+ whp on my Bronco and even with a T19 the users there assured me I should get at least 18mpg highway. No turbo, just full bolt ons and aftermarket EFI. From what I've heard, an M5OD shifts pretty slick in comparison to a ZF5 and first gear will be more usable in every day situations. Why not? Just that I don't really like them. I'm sure it's a character flaw, but I just can't deal with regularly driving a truck I don't like. I did it for six years combined between my '08 F-250 and my '02 F-350. I was so happy to get back into a truck I like with my '97! I'm sticking with what I know I like. As far as the ZF5 not being a great shifting trans, I've never driven one, but the two worst shifting transmissions I've ever had the displeasure of fighting with were the ZF6 that came in my '08 F-250 and the new ZF6 that the dealer put in to try to fix it. I'm am NOT a fan of ZF transmissions. That said, since I haven't driven a ZF5 I don't know that it's as bad as the ZF6s I had, so if I were to drive one and think it was acceptable I might go with one in my next project truck. But I'm probably more likely to put an NV4500 in it, or possibly an aftermarket Tremec. On the not so useable 1st gear, that only matters if you can't start in 2nd. With what I think is a wider torque curve on a 302 I'm thinking that with the fairly low gears that a 302 will like it will be able to start in 2nd and comfortably go up through the remaining three gears. 1st would be used only when starting on a steep hill, or the rare times I'm pulling a too-heavy trailer. I spent 13 years and 181K miles in an '85 F-250 with a 351, NP435 and 3.54 gears. That worked pretty well, but with 3.73 gears to make 2nd a little lower and an overdrive to make the 3.73 gears a lot taller I'd have loved that setup. Related, one of the few regrets I have with my Bronco's current configuration is the NV3550 trans. The gears are way too close together. I start in 1st, then shift to 3rd, and then to 5th. I'd much rather have an "unusable" 1st gear to use when I want a granny gear than have two gears in the middle of the pattern that aren't usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJam300 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Why not? Just that I don't really like them. I'm sure it's a character flaw, but I just can't deal with regularly driving a truck I don't like. I did it for six years combined between my '08 F-250 and my '02 F-350. I was so happy to get back into a truck I like with my '97! I'm sticking with what I know I like. As far as the ZF5 not being a great shifting trans, I've never driven one, but the two worst shifting transmissions I've ever had the displeasure of fighting with were the ZF6 that came in my '08 F-250 and the new ZF6 that the dealer put in to try to fix it. I'm am NOT a fan of ZF transmissions. That said, since I haven't driven a ZF5 I don't know that it's as bad as the ZF6s I had, so if I were to drive one and think it was acceptable I might go with one in my next project truck. But I'm probably more likely to put an NV4500 in it, or possibly an aftermarket Tremec. On the not so useable 1st gear, that only matters if you can't start in 2nd. With what I think is a wider torque curve on a 302 I'm thinking that with the fairly low gears that a 302 will like it will be able to start in 2nd and comfortably go up through the remaining three gears. 1st would be used only when starting on a steep hill, or the rare times I'm pulling a too-heavy trailer. I spent 13 years and 181K miles in an '85 F-250 with a 351, NP435 and 3.54 gears. That worked pretty well, but with 3.73 gears to make 2nd a little lower and an overdrive to make the 3.73 gears a lot taller I'd have loved that setup. Related, one of the few regrets I have with my Bronco's current configuration is the NV3550 trans. The gears are way too close together. I start in 1st, then shift to 3rd, and then to 5th. I'd much rather have an "unusable" 1st gear to use when I want a granny gear than have two gears in the middle of the pattern that aren't usable. What axle ratio is on your Bronco? The M5OD gear spread is very similar to the NV3550. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 What axle ratio is on your Bronco? The M5OD gear spread is very similar to the NV3550. 4.10. And generally I like that gearing with the 33" tires and the stockish 302. Lower gears would give me batter off-the-line performance (which it doesn't really need) and a better crawl ratio (which is always good for my use), but it would make it more "buzzy" on the highway. I certainly wouldn't want it any taller with the 33" tires. But 3.73 gears with 29" tires would be about the same effective gearing, which is why I'm thinking in that range for this theoretical truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 .... I need to get a "new" truck. Maybe I fix up the current one after it's no longer a daily driver. But getting the new truck is the first step.... So now I'm spit-balling a SuperCab short bed as my next truck, and I'm thinking about what drive train I want.... Keep in mind that this is all spit-balling right now. I might end up sticking with a crew cab (which will likely need a 351). Or I might go a completely different direction entirely.... Well, it ended up being another direction entirely! I've already shared the back story about thinking about getting another truck and restoring my '97 F-250HD CCSB. I was thinking that might start late this summer. But then my son was in an accident. All of the people were fine, but his car was totaled. We loaned him my truck for a couple days so he could get to and from work. But he really needed something for more than a couple days as the insurance got worked out and he could then work through his options. So we decided maybe I should get that "another" truck sooner rather than later. Lesley vetoed the idea of a SuperCab. She (probably realistically!) doesn't have confidence that I'll get the restoration completed very quickly, and (definitely realistically) pointed out that we really need to have a truck now that we can put another couple of adults in, and possible soon would be able to put car seats in (both sons are fairly newly married, we're not in too big of a hurry for grandkids, but it'll probably happen). I had an '08 F-250 crew cab and an '02 F-350 crew cab. That was more than enough to convince me that I'll never own a Ford pickup newer than '97 again. And I don't like complicated controls (I refuse to have a vehicle where I need to take off my gloves to work a touch screen to adjust the HVAC). So some quick research and shopping landed a 2007 Dodge 2500 in my driveway! It's an automatic trans of course , and it's the 6.7L Cummins, which I think I'm going to think is a good thing. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it'll be a good bridge for the next several years, after which either I'll have restored my '97 or turned it into a pile of scrap metal and have bought another old Ford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 .... I need to get a "new" truck. Maybe I fix up the current one after it's no longer a daily driver. But getting the new truck is the first step.... So now I'm spit-balling a SuperCab short bed as my next truck, and I'm thinking about what drive train I want.... Keep in mind that this is all spit-balling right now. I might end up sticking with a crew cab (which will likely need a 351). Or I might go a completely different direction entirely.... Well, it ended up being another direction entirely! I've already shared the back story about thinking about getting another truck and restoring my '97 F-250HD CCSB. I was thinking that might start late this summer. But then my son was in an accident. All of the people were fine, but his car was totaled. We loaned him my truck for a couple days so he could get to and from work. But he really needed something for more than a couple days as the insurance got worked out and he could then work through his options. So we decided maybe I should get that "another" truck sooner rather than later. Lesley vetoed the idea of a SuperCab. She (probably realistically!) doesn't have confidence that I'll get the restoration completed very quickly, and (definitely realistically) pointed out that we really need to have a truck now that we can put another couple of adults in, and possible soon would be able to put car seats in (both sons are fairly newly married, we're not in too big of a hurry for grandkids, but it'll probably happen). I had an '08 F-250 crew cab and an '02 F-350 crew cab. That was more than enough to convince me that I'll never own a Ford pickup newer than '97 again. And I don't like complicated controls (I refuse to have a vehicle where I need to take off my gloves to work a touch screen to adjust the HVAC). So some quick research and shopping landed a 2007 Dodge 2500 in my driveway! It's an automatic trans of course , and it's the 6.7L Cummins, which I think I'm going to think is a good thing. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it'll be a good bridge for the next several years, after which either I'll have restored my '97 or turned it into a pile of scrap metal and have bought another old Ford! Looks like a nice truck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 .... I need to get a "new" truck. Maybe I fix up the current one after it's no longer a daily driver. But getting the new truck is the first step.... So now I'm spit-balling a SuperCab short bed as my next truck, and I'm thinking about what drive train I want.... Keep in mind that this is all spit-balling right now. I might end up sticking with a crew cab (which will likely need a 351). Or I might go a completely different direction entirely.... Well, it ended up being another direction entirely! I've already shared the back story about thinking about getting another truck and restoring my '97 F-250HD CCSB. I was thinking that might start late this summer. But then my son was in an accident. All of the people were fine, but his car was totaled. We loaned him my truck for a couple days so he could get to and from work. But he really needed something for more than a couple days as the insurance got worked out and he could then work through his options. So we decided maybe I should get that "another" truck sooner rather than later. Lesley vetoed the idea of a SuperCab. She (probably realistically!) doesn't have confidence that I'll get the restoration completed very quickly, and (definitely realistically) pointed out that we really need to have a truck now that we can put another couple of adults in, and possible soon would be able to put car seats in (both sons are fairly newly married, we're not in too big of a hurry for grandkids, but it'll probably happen). I had an '08 F-250 crew cab and an '02 F-350 crew cab. That was more than enough to convince me that I'll never own a Ford pickup newer than '97 again. And I don't like complicated controls (I refuse to have a vehicle where I need to take off my gloves to work a touch screen to adjust the HVAC). So some quick research and shopping landed a 2007 Dodge 2500 in my driveway! It's an automatic trans of course , and it's the 6.7L Cummins, which I think I'm going to think is a good thing. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it'll be a good bridge for the next several years, after which either I'll have restored my '97 or turned it into a pile of scrap metal and have bought another old Ford! Well, my 2015 doesn't require taking the gloves off to run the HVAC, but I do understand what you are saying as the nav system sure does - I seriously dislike it. But the Cummins is a good engine and it should tow nicely. And the crewcab works very well for grandkids - I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 Well, my 2015 doesn't require taking the gloves off to run the HVAC, but I do understand what you are saying as the nav system sure does - I seriously dislike it. But the Cummins is a good engine and it should tow nicely. And the crewcab works very well for grandkids - I know. Thanks! I think this truck will work out well for me. On the touch screen, Lesley's 2018 Jeep Renegade is like many newer vehicles, where lots of things are controlled through the touch screen. On the Renegade the HVAC is one of those things. But whether the HVAC goes through the touch screen or not, a touch screen is just something I don't like in a vehicle. Sure it means that I don't have a nav system, or a backup camera, or etc, etc, etc. But I'm used to not having all of that, and I'm fine with it. And frankly, I don't really want to get used to having all of that if I'm going to be moving back into my '97 F-250HD at some point! So simple was good, and a 2007 Dodge is still pretty simple. (continuing topics on the Dodge in the "what have you done..." thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Thanks! I think this truck will work out well for me. On the touch screen, Lesley's 2018 Jeep Renegade is like many newer vehicles, where lots of things are controlled through the touch screen. On the Renegade the HVAC is one of those things. But whether the HVAC goes through the touch screen or not, a touch screen is just something I don't like in a vehicle. Sure it means that I don't have a nav system, or a backup camera, or etc, etc, etc. But I'm used to not having all of that, and I'm fine with it. And frankly, I don't really want to get used to having all of that if I'm going to be moving back into my '97 F-250HD at some point! So simple was good, and a 2007 Dodge is still pretty simple. (continuing topics on the Dodge in the "what have you done..." thread) Our 2015 GLK has a touchscreen, but it also has a joy stick so you don't have to use the touchscreen. And my 2011 Murano had the same thing. But apparently on my 2015 one of Ford's Better Ideas was to force you to use the touchscreen on some things, like panning across the map screen. Or zooming in/out. Etc, etc, etc. HORRIBLE! Such a huge step backwards. If I had to go look for a new pickup, or any vehicle for that matter, that would be a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts