Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

[Nothing Special]

You sure made it look easy! And I can tell it is really steep given the problems that many had.

Apparently the last guy, the blue Jeep, doesn't have a front locker? It looked like he should have been able to make it if he'd had one.

And that silver thing has a Toyota part in it? What part? It isn't recognizable but sure seems to work.

The blue Jeep at the end has a rear locker and a PowrLok in the front. PowrLoks are maybe one of the most solid and most positive limited slips. But it's no locker.

The silver buggy is really a lot more Toyota than you might think. Body-wise I think it's just the hood, grill and front inner fenders. But it's the stock frame, stock-ish axles (although it is a solid front axle from an earlier Toyota pickup) a stock engine and trans (I'm pretty sure it has some sort of "crawl box" transfer case with lower gearing). The suspension is still leaf springs and single shocks, but obviously lifted and with more travel. So the (lack of a) body is really the main non-Toyota thing.

(edit to add: Oops, I forgot I had told their story a few days earlier in this thread. Oh well, here it is again)

By the way, Ed and Janice in that Toyota are an interesting couple. They're probably in their 70s ad they just started 'wheeling a couple years ago. They were surfing YouTube and watched some videos and thought "hey, maybe that's something we should do!" They've obviously jumped in with both feet! And in the next video I'm working to post you will see Ed spotting for Dale (who drives a bigger green Jeep). Ed knows his stuff!

Lesley was impressed that Janice stays in the buggy as Ed looks for all of the hard lines. When I talked to Janice about that she said that early on she did get out on a tougher obstacle once. Ed made it over safely and she slipped, fell and broke her wrist while she waited for him! So she figures it's safer just to stay in the truck.

As far as me making it look easy, I bet Big Blue could have done as well on the line I took, even with a TrueTrac instead of a locker in the rear. Yes it's steep, but it really wasn't a very hard line.

[Gary Lewis]

The blue Jeep at the end has a rear locker and a PowrLok in the front. PowrLoks are maybe one of the most solid and most positive limited slips. But it's no locker.

The silver buggy is really a lot more Toyota than you might think. Body-wise I think it's just the hood, grill and front inner fenders. But it's the stock frame, stock-ish axles (although it is a solid front axle from an earlier Toyota pickup) a stock engine and trans (I'm pretty sure it has some sort of "crawl box" transfer case with lower gearing). The suspension is still leaf springs and single shocks, but obviously lifted and with more travel. So the (lack of a) body is really the main non-Toyota thing.

(edit to add: Oops, I forgot I had told their story a few days earlier in this thread. Oh well, here it is again)

By the way, Ed and Janice in that Toyota are an interesting couple. They're probably in their 70s ad they just started 'wheeling a couple years ago. They were surfing YouTube and watched some videos and thought "hey, maybe that's something we should do!" They've obviously jumped in with both feet! And in the next video I'm working to post you will see Ed spotting for Dale (who drives a bigger green Jeep). Ed knows his stuff!

Lesley was impressed that Janice stays in the buggy as Ed looks for all of the hard lines. When I talked to Janice about that she said that early on she did get out on a tougher obstacle once. Ed made it over safely and she slipped, fell and broke her wrist while she waited for him! So she figures it's safer just to stay in the truck.

As far as me making it look easy, I bet Big Blue could have done as well on the line I took, even with a TrueTrac instead of a locker in the rear. Yes it's steep, but it really wasn't a very hard line.

I didn't realize how important a true locker is. That blue Jeep just couldn't get through that spot w/o one, which reminds me of a story - in a minute.

As for the Toyota buggy's owners, it is good to know there are others my age that want to do that kind of thing. People seem to think we are "done" and can't do anything on our own. Only last week the kid at O'Reilly's took the alternator for the Expedition from my left hand, handed me another one which I put in my right hand, and asked if I needed help getting out with it.

As for the buggy itself, maybe I'll suggest that's what my son needs to do to his 4Runner if he wants to keep up with Big Blue. Only this morning he was saying he needs to put a lift, lockers, and 33's on his. So I told him the story about the guy my brother and I met on Engineer Mountain Road who'd put well over $10K into a recent 4Runner, including suspension, 33's, & lockers. When we went to The Wall my brother and I went first and Mike didn't show up so I went back to see what was going on. He was on his third attempt through a hole that BB putt putted through - without the front locker engaged. Mike was spinning the rear tires and had one front tire in the air, finally engaging the front locker to get through, but even then it wasn't an easy go.

I don't know why Big Blue did so well on that trip, but my brother was blown away with the capabilities it displayed. We only engaged the front locker once, and it was really just to try it out. But now with the EFI I'm sure he'll do even better since it'll pull from idle right on up, which it wouldn't do then.

Speaking of the EFI, do none of the Jeeps on that trip have EFI? I noticed that many of them had to crank quite a while after killing the engine. The EFI has really made re-starting Big Blue far easier.

[Nothing Special]

I didn't realize how important a true locker is. That blue Jeep just couldn't get through that spot w/o one, which reminds me of a story - in a minute.

As for the Toyota buggy's owners, it is good to know there are others my age that want to do that kind of thing. People seem to think we are "done" and can't do anything on our own. Only last week the kid at O'Reilly's took the alternator for the Expedition from my left hand, handed me another one which I put in my right hand, and asked if I needed help getting out with it.

As for the buggy itself, maybe I'll suggest that's what my son needs to do to his 4Runner if he wants to keep up with Big Blue. Only this morning he was saying he needs to put a lift, lockers, and 33's on his. So I told him the story about the guy my brother and I met on Engineer Mountain Road who'd put well over $10K into a recent 4Runner, including suspension, 33's, & lockers. When we went to The Wall my brother and I went first and Mike didn't show up so I went back to see what was going on. He was on his third attempt through a hole that BB putt putted through - without the front locker engaged. Mike was spinning the rear tires and had one front tire in the air, finally engaging the front locker to get through, but even then it wasn't an easy go.

I don't know why Big Blue did so well on that trip, but my brother was blown away with the capabilities it displayed. We only engaged the front locker once, and it was really just to try it out. But now with the EFI I'm sure he'll do even better since it'll pull from idle right on up, which it wouldn't do then.

Speaking of the EFI, do none of the Jeeps on that trip have EFI? I noticed that many of them had to crank quite a while after killing the engine. The EFI has really made re-starting Big Blue far easier.

Lockers are less necessary if you can keep all 4 tires on the ground. I don't know about Big Blue, but I know that my '85 F-250HD had a very ... supple frame. It didn't have much travel in the front end (TTB with leaf springs) but it didn't lift a tire as much as you'd expect from a heavy duty truck.

I think all but Kris' blue Jeep had 2 lockers. Most had one automatic and one selectable locker, but there was a little variety as to which locker was in which axle. A couple had two selectables, and I think one or two might have had two automatics.

There was a mix of carbs and EFI on that trip. The newer green Jeep (Dale) at the start of that video (it's a YJ Wrangler with a CJ5/CJ7 front clip), the first old green Jeep in the next video (Jeff) and an older red Jeep that'll show up eventually (Fuzz) are all running Chevy 4.3L V6 with EFI. Ed's Toyota is a stock 22R with EFI. The other old green Jeep (Alan), and the tan Jeep (Kevin) have carbs and '60s vintage V6 engines. The blue Jeep (Kris) has the original flathead four cylinder with a carb. I'm not sure what Wade's yellow Jeep has, I think it's a V6, but I have no idea on the fuel system. There was another tan Jeep on the trip (JW) but I'm not sure he made it into any videos. I'm pretty sure he had a carb and a 4 cylinder. My carbed Bronco and Clint's radical turbo EFI side-by-side on 35" tires rounded out the group.

[Nothing Special]

Lockers are less necessary if you can keep all 4 tires on the ground. I don't know about Big Blue, but I know that my '85 F-250HD had a very ... supple frame. It didn't have much travel in the front end (TTB with leaf springs) but it didn't lift a tire as much as you'd expect from a heavy duty truck.

I think all but Kris' blue Jeep had 2 lockers. Most had one automatic and one selectable locker, but there was a little variety as to which locker was in which axle. A couple had two selectables, and I think one or two might have had two automatics.

There was a mix of carbs and EFI on that trip. The newer green Jeep (Dale) at the start of that video (it's a YJ Wrangler with a CJ5/CJ7 front clip), the first old green Jeep in the next video (Jeff) and an older red Jeep that'll show up eventually (Fuzz) are all running Chevy 4.3L V6 with EFI. Ed's Toyota is a stock 22R with EFI. The other old green Jeep (Alan), and the tan Jeep (Kevin) have carbs and '60s vintage V6 engines. The blue Jeep (Kris) has the original flathead four cylinder with a carb. I'm not sure what Wade's yellow Jeep has, I think it's a V6, but I have no idea on the fuel system. There was another tan Jeep on the trip (JW) but I'm not sure he made it into any videos. I'm pretty sure he had a carb and a 4 cylinder. My carbed Bronco and Clint's radical turbo EFI side-by-side on 35" tires rounded out the group.

This next video is from a trail ominously named Bronco Buster:nabble_smiley_oh: The trail is longer, but all of this video is from one obstacle where we were starting on the trail. Jeff, Alan and Wade struggled in their older Jeeps to make it up the ledge, but none made it. I only included a small portion of their attempts (Alan and Wade winched in the end, which isn't in the video). Then Ed and Dale made it up in the bigger vehicles. Not to be outdone, Jeff had another go at the end. His motto is "we do what we can and try what we can't." You can tell that it's a motto he lives by:nabble_smiley_evil:

At that point we had the choice of going with that group up Bronco Buster or going with some of the others who were going to find an easier way around. Kevin and I decided to take the bypass and stick with the more ... adventurous group. The bypass was a bit interesting as well with a sharp, off-camber turn that threatened to dump you into the hole the others had driven up from. Kevin (no video of him on this trail, but he was in the tan Jeep in the first video) actually made it pretty easily, but it was a little more challenging in the bigger Bronco.

(by the way, if you hadn't noticed I set up these videos with "chapters" using the driver's names)

[Gary Lewis]

This next video is from a trail ominously named Bronco Buster:nabble_smiley_oh: The trail is longer, but all of this video is from one obstacle where we were starting on the trail. Jeff, Alan and Wade struggled in their older Jeeps to make it up the ledge, but none made it. I only included a small portion of their attempts (Alan and Wade winched in the end, which isn't in the video). Then Ed and Dale made it up in the bigger vehicles. Not to be outdone, Jeff had another go at the end. His motto is "we do what we can and try what we can't." You can tell that it's a motto he lives by:nabble_smiley_evil:

At that point we had the choice of going with that group up Bronco Buster or going with some of the others who were going to find an easier way around. Kevin and I decided to take the bypass and stick with the more ... adventurous group. The bypass was a bit interesting as well with a sharp, off-camber turn that threatened to dump you into the hole the others had driven up from. Kevin (no video of him on this trail, but he was in the tan Jeep in the first video) actually made it pretty easily, but it was a little more challenging in the bigger Bronco.

(by the way, if you hadn't noticed I set up these videos with "chapters" using the driver's names)

I hadn't thought about the frame flexing, but that could make a big difference. That and the additional articulation from the D60 and SD springs may explain why it does so well.

Having said that, I don't want to do anything like you and the others are doing. Man, that's amazing.

Was Ed, the 70 year-old guy, the one in overalls spotting? He seemed to know what he was doing.

I didn't go back to see which ones had to crank quite a while vs the ones you said have EFI. Do you remember?

And I didn't notice initially about the chapters, but I read your post before I watched the video and do see what you've done. That helps.

[Nothing Special]

I hadn't thought about the frame flexing, but that could make a big difference. That and the additional articulation from the D60 and SD springs may explain why it does so well.

Having said that, I don't want to do anything like you and the others are doing. Man, that's amazing.

Was Ed, the 70 year-old guy, the one in overalls spotting? He seemed to know what he was doing.

I didn't go back to see which ones had to crank quite a while vs the ones you said have EFI. Do you remember?

And I didn't notice initially about the chapters, but I read your post before I watched the video and do see what you've done. That helps.

I've said before that doing this kind of thing isn't for everyone! If you want to get into it I'll probably be a bit of an enabler! But if not, please don't feel any pressure from me. If I say that Big Blue can do something I'm certainly not saying that you should let him! That's up to you, and the most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing.

Yes, Ed is the guy in overalls. And in spite of being pretty new to this, yes, he really knows what he's doing!

I don't think any of the Jeeps that I know have EFI had much trouble (Jeff in the more beat up green Jeep, Dale in the newer green Jeep or Fuzz in the red Jeep you haven't met yet). Alan (other old green Jeep) and Kris (blue Jeep) both did a fair amount of cranking and both have carbs. Ed also had a little more trouble with his EFI Toyota, but I think that was more driving style. He didn't get very deep in the throttle ever and is running a manual trans, so he stalled out the little 4 cylinder more than the guys with V6s and heavier right feet. As I recall his engine didn't just fire up every time, but it was a lot quicker than the cranking of some of the carbs.

Interestingly, Alan (who probably had the most carb trouble) is running the same Autolite/Motorcraft 2100 2 bbl that I'm running. It's widely considered at least one of the best (if not the best) carb for 'wheeling. I know that when I had a stock Holley 4150 on my Jeep the biggest problem was fuel slosh. Hit a rock and you'd dump a whole bunch of fuel down the throat, the engine would flood and you'd be cranking a lot to get it fired back up (go back and look at the very first video I posted and you'll hear a lot from my starter!). I made that carb a lot better by adding vent baffles and I think one or two other mods that I don't recall right now. But I haven't had as much trouble with the 2100.

[Gary Lewis]

I've said before that doing this kind of thing isn't for everyone! If you want to get into it I'll probably be a bit of an enabler! But if not, please don't feel any pressure from me. If I say that Big Blue can do something I'm certainly not saying that you should let him! That's up to you, and the most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing.

Yes, Ed is the guy in overalls. And in spite of being pretty new to this, yes, he really knows what he's doing!

I don't think any of the Jeeps that I know have EFI had much trouble (Jeff in the more beat up green Jeep, Dale in the newer green Jeep or Fuzz in the red Jeep you haven't met yet). Alan (other old green Jeep) and Kris (blue Jeep) both did a fair amount of cranking and both have carbs. Ed also had a little more trouble with his EFI Toyota, but I think that was more driving style. He didn't get very deep in the throttle ever and is running a manual trans, so he stalled out the little 4 cylinder more than the guys with V6s and heavier right feet. As I recall his engine didn't just fire up every time, but it was a lot quicker than the cranking of some of the carbs.

Interestingly, Alan (who probably had the most carb trouble) is running the same Autolite/Motorcraft 2100 2 bbl that I'm running. It's widely considered at least one of the best (if not the best) carb for 'wheeling. I know that when I had a stock Holley 4150 on my Jeep the biggest problem was fuel slosh. Hit a rock and you'd dump a whole bunch of fuel down the throat, the engine would flood and you'd be cranking a lot to get it fired back up (go back and look at the very first video I posted and you'll hear a lot from my starter!). I made that carb a lot better by adding vent baffles and I think one or two other mods that I don't recall right now. But I haven't had as much trouble with the 2100.

I think we have different intents for our vehicles. I want Big Blue to be able to go anywhere we want to go when overlanding, but that's typically done on fire roads and they aren't usually very demanding. Having said that, Janey and I found one last year that she didn't want to go up, but it was just rock outcroppings that would have made it rough going. So we didn't go. But the truck would have done it just fine.

On the carb, float level can make a difference on extreme angles. Too low can mean a lean mix that makes the engine hard to start. But you are right, the 2100 is fairly immune to that due to its small bowl.

 

[Nothing Special]

I think we have different intents for our vehicles. I want Big Blue to be able to go anywhere we want to go when overlanding, but that's typically done on fire roads and they aren't usually very demanding. Having said that, Janey and I found one last year that she didn't want to go up, but it was just rock outcroppings that would have made it rough going. So we didn't go. But the truck would have done it just fine.

On the carb, float level can make a difference on extreme angles. Too low can mean a lean mix that makes the engine hard to start. But you are right, the 2100 is fairly immune to that due to its small bowl.

After Bronco Buster the main group decided to do V-Notch. The last time I was there I watched a few of the Jeeps do that obstacle (here's a picture from the earlier trip) and that's not the kind of challenge I enjoy.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n74873/IMG_0224.jpg

So I went with the vehicles that didn't want to risk our body work. It took a little time to get back with the others, but we finally rejoined them on PeeWee Crossing as they were tackling a small ledge. PeeWee Crossing is an easy trail that cuts through the entire park. It's main purpose is to let you access the "real" trails, but every so often there is an optional obstacle that is worth video. This is one of those.

I didn't get to see the others run it (you can see me turning onto the trail in the background as the last Jeep ahead of me is going up, that picture is also the thumbnail). And the visibility over the hood of a Bronco didn't let me see it. But I trusted my spotter, and other than a little more rock rash on my front bumper made it up unscathed.

[Gary Lewis]

After Bronco Buster the main group decided to do V-Notch. The last time I was there I watched a few of the Jeeps do that obstacle (here's a picture from the earlier trip) and that's not the kind of challenge I enjoy.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n74873/IMG_0224.jpg

So I went with the vehicles that didn't want to risk our body work. It took a little time to get back with the others, but we finally rejoined them on PeeWee Crossing as they were tackling a small ledge. PeeWee Crossing is an easy trail that cuts through the entire park. It's main purpose is to let you access the "real" trails, but every so often there is an optional obstacle that is worth video. This is one of those.

I didn't get to see the others run it (you can see me turning onto the trail in the background as the last Jeep ahead of me is going up, that picture is also the thumbnail). And the visibility over the hood of a Bronco didn't let me see it. But I trusted my spotter, and other than a little more rock rash on my front bumper made it up unscathed.

I'm with you, I don't like V-Notch as something is sure to get damaged if I try it.

And that step is about what we saw at The Wall, which was far more than we wanted to try. Big Blue's bumper must be lower than yours as I'm sure it would hit well before the wheels would. But you made it through nicely.

And, Lesley was riding with you!

[Nothing Special]

I'm with you, I don't like V-Notch as something is sure to get damaged if I try it.

And that step is about what we saw at The Wall, which was far more than we wanted to try. Big Blue's bumper must be lower than yours as I'm sure it would hit well before the wheels would. But you made it through nicely.

And, Lesley was riding with you!

V-notch obstacles are easy if you take the right line and give you body damage if you don't. I'd rather do something that gives more of a feeling of accomplishment when you succeed. And if there's less chance of sheetmetal damage, so much the better!

Lesley commented that there were a number of times when she wanted to get out but didn't feel like she could. This was one of them, where we were getting to the obstacle after everyone else was done and she didn't want to hold things up. Not that people would've minded, but she didn't want to put people out.

When that happened she generally enjoyed the ride (albeit with some apprehension!). But she tells me not to expect that level of bravery when we're alone again! But as long as she wants to go along, I'm fine if she wants to get out on the harder obstacles. That's how I get pictures and video!