Littlebeefy Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I think you have the wrong fan, and maybe the wrong shroud but I'll measure Big Blue's shroud tomorrow to see how big its opening is. On the fan, it isn't just the diameter but also the pitch of the blades that is different. I think the fans for the 460's and diesels have very aggressive pitches and are intended to move a lot of air. And I don't think the ones for the smaller engines are as aggressive. If it was me I'd pull the fan and find the # on it. And while you are at it I'd check the # on the clutch. Save the money on the radiator. That massive gap is the problem. Your fan isn't pulling air over the radiator fins when you're stopped; it's just blowing hot air around the engine bay. I have held up up a 460 fan next to a 351W fan and the shape, size and angle of the blades are very different between them, but the overall difference in diameter is hard to see because of the asymmetrical shape. Wait to hear back from Gary then get all three of those parts out and check that they are correct. If you have to replace one of them, you will need them all out anyway. If you end of having to replace the radiator you will need them all out anyway. Basically, unless the problem is your thermostat or a hose (which you confirmed it's not), you will need to take all three of those parts out anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Save the money on the radiator. That massive gap is the problem. Your fan isn't pulling air over the radiator fins when you're stopped; it's just blowing hot air around the engine bay. I have held up up a 460 fan next to a 351W fan and the shape, size and angle of the blades are very different between them, but the overall difference in diameter is hard to see because of the asymmetrical shape. Wait to hear back from Gary then get all three of those parts out and check that they are correct. If you have to replace one of them, you will need them all out anyway. If you end of having to replace the radiator you will need them all out anyway. Basically, unless the problem is your thermostat or a hose (which you confirmed it's not), you will need to take all three of those parts out anyway. I agree the main culprit is probably the fan. BUT, I think the radiator may also be at fault. A radiator is designed to shed X BTU's in a given period of time with a certain CFM air flow at a given temperature differential. So if you reduce that air flow, like with the wrong fan, then it won't shed as many BTU's, all else being equal. But if the radiator is partially plugged then it is running at reduced capacity already. So if you then reduce the air flow you really have a problem. IOW, it could work fine on the highway but not in traffic. I would address the fan/clutch combo first. If the fan isn't the right one I'd get the right one and see if that gets you enough cooling in traffic. If not, then I'd think about a new radiator. BUT, I'd check the temp with either a non-contact thermometer on the thermostat housing or an aftermarket gauge with numbers on it. And to answer the question about where to put the probe for that gauge, I put mine in a fitting in the thermostat housing. That way I can see the engine warming up on the factory gauge and then see the thermostat open and the aftermarket gauge starts climbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebeefy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 I agree the main culprit is probably the fan. BUT, I think the radiator may also be at fault. A radiator is designed to shed X BTU's in a given period of time with a certain CFM air flow at a given temperature differential. So if you reduce that air flow, like with the wrong fan, then it won't shed as many BTU's, all else being equal. But if the radiator is partially plugged then it is running at reduced capacity already. So if you then reduce the air flow you really have a problem. IOW, it could work fine on the highway but not in traffic. I would address the fan/clutch combo first. If the fan isn't the right one I'd get the right one and see if that gets you enough cooling in traffic. If not, then I'd think about a new radiator. BUT, I'd check the temp with either a non-contact thermometer on the thermostat housing or an aftermarket gauge with numbers on it. And to answer the question about where to put the probe for that gauge, I put mine in a fitting in the thermostat housing. That way I can see the engine warming up on the factory gauge and then see the thermostat open and the aftermarket gauge starts climbing. I took a picture of an 84 351W fan next to an 84 460 fan. The 460 fan is on the right. It has H-E4TA-MA printed on it. The diameter isn’t obviously different but the blades are significantly larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 I took a picture of an 84 351W fan next to an 84 460 fan. The 460 fan is on the right. It has H-E4TA-MA printed on it. The diameter isn’t obviously different but the blades are significantly larger. I wish I had the fan my 430 in a 1958 Country Squire had, 7 blades and it was pretty big also. That would move some air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 I wish I had the fan my 430 in a 1958 Country Squire had, 7 blades and it was pretty big also. That would move some air! OK men, This is what I have today…. Shroud opening isn’t round… top to bottom 22”, side to side 23 1/2” Part number on the shroud is…E3TA-8146-FA Only number I can find on fan is…..3019D Numbers on clutch are….2799, and 20L04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 OK men, This is what I have today…. Shroud opening isn’t round… top to bottom 22”, side to side 23 1/2” Part number on the shroud is…E3TA-8146-FA Only number I can find on fan is…..3019D Numbers on clutch are….2799, and 20L04 The shroud is the right one as E3TA-FA is E3TZ-F, as shown way below. But your blades should have numbers on the backside on each blade, as shown here. And as our page on cooling system fans shows, that cross-references to E4TZ 8600-Z, which is the right fan. However, I cannot find those #'s you found on the clutch in the catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 The shroud is the right one as E3TA-FA is E3TZ-F, as shown way below. But your blades should have numbers on the backside on each blade, as shown here. And as our page on cooling system fans shows, that cross-references to E4TZ 8600-Z, which is the right fan. However, I cannot find those #'s you found on the clutch in the catalog. You’re right Gary, I just didn’t look close enough. And would this be reason enough to replace the fan clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 You’re right Gary, I just didn’t look close enough. And would this be reason enough to replace the fan clutch? Looks like you have the right fan as when I zoom in on the number it appears to be E4TA-MA. Right? (Your pictures sure are small.) On the clutch, I'm not seeing much that would worry me, but again it might be the picture. What are you seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 Looks like you have the right fan as when I zoom in on the number it appears to be E4TA-MA. Right? (Your pictures sure are small.) On the clutch, I'm not seeing much that would worry me, but again it might be the picture. What are you seeing? Yes sir E4TA-MA on the fan. What I was referring to on the clutch was the seepage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebeefy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Yes sir E4TA-MA on the fan. What I was referring to on the clutch was the seepage. That could be a Hayden 2799 clutch, which would be the right unit in your application. I don’t know what the seepage would signify. I have another brand new clutch (which may very well be a Hayden 2799) that I couldn’t use. I’m happy to send it to you if you get me a shipping label. Did anyone confirm from his original pictures that the fan was installed facing the right direction? I know it’s kinda dumb, but… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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