1986 460 Fuel Pump Question

[85lebaront2]

Gray -

Thanks for putting me 'on the map' - new experience for me.

We start dating ourselves - fall 1966 semester, my freshman year, FORTRAN on an IBM 1401 with card I/O and you had to load the three decks prior to your program. We did not have anything sophisticated like a tape drive or other peripheral, just a printer. Like you say different now - my phone has more horsepower and memory than machines from back then and even into the 70s.

Don't know how we made it to the moon with slide rules but we did. Just glad the dump truck does not have a computer - enough fun fixing antiques without that added attraction.

Dale

Fall of 1964, my freshman year at what is now Old Dominion University, the school of engineering had an IBM 1620 in a room. Keypunch, card reader and printer. Yes, I too learned Fortran. I ended up dropping out after failing English Composition and Literature twice.

Since this was spring of 1965 and you basically had no idea if and when you might get that charming letter starting "Greetings", I decided that getting in some kind of reserve program might be a good idea. I ended up in the Marine Reserves and spent a total of 14 years, in two different times, 1965 to 1971 and 1975 to 1983.

I worked in automotive repair, ultimately buying a Carburetor and Ignition shop with my father. Long story, but he got somewhat conned into selling it to one of my employees and his dad. I worked at a dealership, transmission shop, and then a good friend hooked me up on going back to NNS in the laboratory where I had been a number of years earlier. Spent the next 30 years breaking things.

When I first went back into the lab at NNS, they were still storing data on IBM punch cards (this was 1982). I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and played dumb regarding the key punch machine etc. When the lab management decided to acquire a LIMS (Laboratory Information Management System) and we had a computer controlled Tinius-Olsen test machine, our computer guru, finally figured out I knew a lot more than I let on. As a result when we lost a bunch of data and fortunately had hard copies I ended up with full administrator control in LIMS and as our IT guy said "you have more access to this system than anyone other than me.". I guess he trusted me not to change things I shouldn't. I spent a couple of weeks helping sort the mess out, biggest issue was the gap in the lab numbers where the data was lost. the log in information had to be recreated, tests assigned and then the data from the hard copies entered, approver's initials assigned and then released to lock the data.

By the time I retired I had a personal NNS laptop so I could carry it when doing on-site calibrations and as the yard was standing up a WiFi network could actually complete and print the report and pick it up when I returned.

Keep in mind I dropped out of college, when I retired, my department manager stood in front of the group and said I was one of the two best non-degreed engineers he had ever met. I left them with several items I designed, a new water meter calibration weigh tank system that was accurate to 0.4% of indicated value, a digital torque wrench calibration system, a new control system for a hot tensile furnace, a big lifting and handling fixture for Dillon 100.000 lb dynomometers and an Instron test machine to replace the Tinius-Olsen. I wrote the specs and saw the purchase and installation through before retiring.

 

[jdavidsmi]

Fall of 1964, my freshman year at what is now Old Dominion University, the school of engineering had an IBM 1620 in a room. Keypunch, card reader and printer. Yes, I too learned Fortran. I ended up dropping out after failing English Composition and Literature twice.

Since this was spring of 1965 and you basically had no idea if and when you might get that charming letter starting "Greetings", I decided that getting in some kind of reserve program might be a good idea. I ended up in the Marine Reserves and spent a total of 14 years, in two different times, 1965 to 1971 and 1975 to 1983.

I worked in automotive repair, ultimately buying a Carburetor and Ignition shop with my father. Long story, but he got somewhat conned into selling it to one of my employees and his dad. I worked at a dealership, transmission shop, and then a good friend hooked me up on going back to NNS in the laboratory where I had been a number of years earlier. Spent the next 30 years breaking things.

When I first went back into the lab at NNS, they were still storing data on IBM punch cards (this was 1982). I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and played dumb regarding the key punch machine etc. When the lab management decided to acquire a LIMS (Laboratory Information Management System) and we had a computer controlled Tinius-Olsen test machine, our computer guru, finally figured out I knew a lot more than I let on. As a result when we lost a bunch of data and fortunately had hard copies I ended up with full administrator control in LIMS and as our IT guy said "you have more access to this system than anyone other than me.". I guess he trusted me not to change things I shouldn't. I spent a couple of weeks helping sort the mess out, biggest issue was the gap in the lab numbers where the data was lost. the log in information had to be recreated, tests assigned and then the data from the hard copies entered, approver's initials assigned and then released to lock the data.

By the time I retired I had a personal NNS laptop so I could carry it when doing on-site calibrations and as the yard was standing up a WiFi network could actually complete and print the report and pick it up when I returned.

Keep in mind I dropped out of college, when I retired, my department manager stood in front of the group and said I was one of the two best non-degreed engineers he had ever met. I left them with several items I designed, a new water meter calibration weigh tank system that was accurate to 0.4% of indicated value, a digital torque wrench calibration system, a new control system for a hot tensile furnace, a big lifting and handling fixture for Dillon 100.000 lb dynomometers and an Instron test machine to replace the Tinius-Olsen. I wrote the specs and saw the purchase and installation through before retiring.

Boy, you guys bring back some memories, 1969, USAF, my job was man hour tracking for Minuteman missile maintenance teams. If I remember correctly we use an IBM 360, it had a removable board that had to be rewired for each different report. My cubby hole was next to the commander’s office so I could share the AC for the card punch machine. The actual computer was in a separate building across base. It wasn’t long before someone got the idea to start tracking materials use for the different maintenance checklists.

As with most data hungry organizations the job grew from a couple hours a day to full time. On to Vietnam and Thailand, back to paper. Early 80’s finally got a duel floppy drive IBM desktop, much easier. But by today s standard, I was rubbing two sticks together to make a fire.

Some where along this time my wife got herself a Vic 20. By the time I retired in 88, each desk in my office had a computer.

Now I set here with a tablet, with more computer power than I will ever need or use. And just a little jealous of what is coming.

Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.

[BigBrother-84]

Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.

No matter about the facts, Hollywood decided that, yes, it will. Post Apocalyptic movies often show old Ford trucks still running through the mud and the rubble.

[Gary Lewis]

Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.

The answer is no, our trucks probably won't run if hit by a massive EMP. It is expected that the DS-II or TFI ignition systems would be killed if the truck has a simple system, and the ECU would die if the truck had one of those. Basically the theory is that the only way a truck would run is if it has a points-style ignition.

So get a distributor with points and a coil and you could make it run - until you run out of gas.

[grumpin]

Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.

The answer is no, our trucks probably won't run if hit by a massive EMP. It is expected that the DS-II or TFI ignition systems would be killed if the truck has a simple system, and the ECU would die if the truck had one of those. Basically the theory is that the only way a truck would run is if it has a points-style ignition.

So get a distributor with points and a coil and you could make it run - until you run out of gas.

Interesting! I always thought the DS II wouldn’t be affected by an EMP.

 

[Dale Barber]

Jan (my wife) asked me the other day, After reading an article about EMP’s, if our truck would start if that happened or could it be converted so it would. My answer was probably not, and I have no idea. But it’s an interesting question, something to ponder.

The answer is no, our trucks probably won't run if hit by a massive EMP. It is expected that the DS-II or TFI ignition systems would be killed if the truck has a simple system, and the ECU would die if the truck had one of those. Basically the theory is that the only way a truck would run is if it has a points-style ignition.

So get a distributor with points and a coil and you could make it run - until you run out of gas.

I guess I sent this thread down a heck of a rabbit hole that went from mechanical fuel pump to EMP survival.

Boeing story, back in late 70s. Boeing had this idea on how to have computer system survive EMP event. In our cast of software characters we had about any kind of crazy experience covered, except nobody that had actually done a space flight. Full disclosure - I did two years Army active duty and had over 33 total when I finally hit mandatory retirement on reserve component side. One of the other guys had flown KC-135 and AC-119 gunships in Nam. Also nuke sub guy, diver, etc. etc. So we had the schooling on radiation exposure, etc. etc. The two of us look at each other and tell the requester they are nuts - who cares if the machine survives if nobody is there to drive it? We were told to shut up and just get to work solving the problem as requested. So off we go. Two days later we get the word to cease and desist, canceled without a reason. We got a good laugh over that one. EMP is a funny critter. I always wondered how this test came out - test setup picture below. Picture was front cover of Aviation Week same era. No metal at all in the timber structure - as a Fort Belvoir Army combat engineer graduate I can really appreciate the design of that 'timber trestle bridge to nowhere'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS-I

Have to find time tomorrow to go get a mechanical fuel pump for the truck.

 

[BigBrother-84]

I guess I sent this thread down a heck of a rabbit hole that went from mechanical fuel pump to EMP survival.

[…]

The two of us look at each other and tell the requester they are nuts - who cares if the machine survives if nobody is there to drive it?

I love this forum ‘cause we feel free to have fun when discussing mechanical issue!

Have to find time tomorrow to go get a mechanical fuel pump for the truck.

I remember one day in a parking, with Big Brother refusing to start again… with two horses in the trailer. Fast visit to Napa car parts, a new mechanical fuel pump in hands, couple of minutes under the truck, job done.

This was the easiest emergency repair I remember I ever done.

Since then, I LOVE mechanical fuel pumps.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I guess I sent this thread down a heck of a rabbit hole that went from mechanical fuel pump to EMP survival.

Boeing story, back in late 70s. Boeing had this idea on how to have computer system survive EMP event. In our cast of software characters we had about any kind of crazy experience covered, except nobody that had actually done a space flight. Full disclosure - I did two years Army active duty and had over 33 total when I finally hit mandatory retirement on reserve component side. One of the other guys had flown KC-135 and AC-119 gunships in Nam. Also nuke sub guy, diver, etc. etc. So we had the schooling on radiation exposure, etc. etc. The two of us look at each other and tell the requester they are nuts - who cares if the machine survives if nobody is there to drive it? We were told to shut up and just get to work solving the problem as requested. So off we go. Two days later we get the word to cease and desist, canceled without a reason. We got a good laugh over that one. EMP is a funny critter. I always wondered how this test came out - test setup picture below. Picture was front cover of Aviation Week same era. No metal at all in the timber structure - as a Fort Belvoir Army combat engineer graduate I can really appreciate the design of that 'timber trestle bridge to nowhere'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS-I

Have to find time tomorrow to go get a mechanical fuel pump for the truck.

That's a really interesting read! Thanks! I enjoyed that, and had never heard of it.

Was that thing actually right on the edge of Phoenix? If so, wouldn't that pulse kill radio and TV for a couple of seconds?

[Dale Barber]

That's a really interesting read! Thanks! I enjoyed that, and had never heard of it.

Was that thing actually right on the edge of Phoenix? If so, wouldn't that pulse kill radio and TV for a couple of seconds?

Gary -

Location is very near the end of runway 26 at Albuquerque Airport/Kirtland AFB. Google maps at https://www.google.com/maps/place/Albuquerque,+NM/@35.0540495,-106.5902989,10758m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87220addd309837b:0xc0d3f8ceb8d9f6fd!8m2!3d35.0843859!4d-106.650422

Site is labeled ATLAS1 if you blow up the map, about a mile SE of the 26 runway threshold, E of the line of ammo bunkers. You can easily see it is still there. Good question as to how they mitigated any problems of disrupting normal world operations as the test site is really almost in downtown Albuquerque. The alignment of the EMP shot would seem to be aimed right at the city.

If I can remember the next time I talk to my one surviving uncle in FL will ask if that was ever a problem. His last Army assignment was at Sandia Base (which had been absorbed into Kirtland) and they retired there for many years as my grandmother was living with them at the time. I used to stop once or twice a year to visit on business trips to the coast in the 80/90s. If you are ever there DOE has a VERY interesting museum there which my memory says was right on the edge of the base. Good history of the Manhattan Project and since then. They also did a lot of interesting but weird solar research stuff there as well. That uncle has interesting stories - he was in a couple of the nuclear tests in Nevada right after the end of the Korean War where they popped nukes with units in the field. Like the tests the Navy did in the Pacific but not as well known in general.

Dale