85lebaront2 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 the old info of previous gm designs is interesting . i'm still studying power transfer systems. but i study one trans at a time as im building or modifying one. i generally focus on aod's as i like using them in f100 and f150 trucks. so much of the internal operation is not so adjustable yet relies on info from external points. not totally versed in all things transmission. just my own experience with building certain models. and the range of operation im referring to is on the external "communication" portion of the system. Mat, if you are interested in some of that, I have things I have dug up on a lot of transmissions. The real interesting ones are Mercedes-Benz units, all the ones I used to work on have reaction valves on the anchor end of the bands. These serve as hydraulic feedback to the valves applying or releasing the band and it's associated clutch. The idea is to provide a smooth, yet solid transfer from one holding device to another. To say the valve bodies on these are complex is an understatement. The other end of this is the Detroit Gear 3 speed that Studebaker used and after the fire in the Hydra-Matic plant in 1953 Hudson used them also. Jaguar used them on the salons and XK 120,140, and 150 models. Valve body was extremely simple as the shifts were controlled by a flyweight governor that a throttle input changed the spring tension on. This moved a shift valve to control the original versions shift from intermediate to direct and on the later Jaguar models from low to intermediate to direct. There was a tiny plunger that received pressure in direct to provide the needed hysteresis to prevent hunting. I also believe Mercedes used it before developing their own units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Mat, if you are interested in some of that, I have things I have dug up on a lot of transmissions. The real interesting ones are Mercedes-Benz units, all the ones I used to work on have reaction valves on the anchor end of the bands. These serve as hydraulic feedback to the valves applying or releasing the band and it's associated clutch. The idea is to provide a smooth, yet solid transfer from one holding device to another. To say the valve bodies on these are complex is an understatement. The other end of this is the Detroit Gear 3 speed that Studebaker used and after the fire in the Hydra-Matic plant in 1953 Hudson used them also. Jaguar used them on the salons and XK 120,140, and 150 models. Valve body was extremely simple as the shifts were controlled by a flyweight governor that a throttle input changed the spring tension on. This moved a shift valve to control the original versions shift from intermediate to direct and on the later Jaguar models from low to intermediate to direct. There was a tiny plunger that received pressure in direct to provide the needed hysteresis to prevent hunting. I also believe Mercedes used it before developing their own units. i am very interested in these. personally i dont learn well without an example to work on or a means of keeping in context. i guess i have struggled with that my whole life. if im researching a solution for a known condition or problem i find it far easier to comprehend and retain what i have learned. i guess its one of the things that keeps me challenging myself. i havent jumped into an e4od yet either. although i have been close. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsmblue Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 i am very interested in these. personally i dont learn well without an example to work on or a means of keeping in context. i guess i have struggled with that my whole life. if im researching a solution for a known condition or problem i find it far easier to comprehend and retain what i have learned. i guess its one of the things that keeps me challenging myself. i havent jumped into an e4od yet either. although i have been close. haha. You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects! me thinks thou may be working an angle:nabble_head-rotfl-57x22_orig: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects! Geee, I think I would go assist to this symposium, guys, even just to learn what is a TV cable. I suspect it’s not in order to watch Maynard G. Krebs episodes while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects! Geee, I think I would go assist to this symposium, guys, even just to learn what is a TV cable. I suspect it’s not in order to watch Maynard G. Krebs episodes while driving. Work! And you do know what the “G” stood for, right? Read to the bottom of this: https://dallaslibrary2.org/blogs/bookedSolid/2017/08/one-word-maynard-g-krebs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 You guys have so much experience and knowledge. I want to host a symposium at my place for all of you with my trucks as the subjects! Geee, I think I would go assist to this symposium, guys, even just to learn what is a TV cable. I suspect it’s not in order to watch Maynard G. Krebs episodes while driving. Well, first there are two different types of TV cable a pull style and a push style (sort of like the pushmepullyou from Dr. Dolittle). The pull style is the more normal and can be either an external or internal connection at the transmission end. Manufacturers found that making numerous changes of direction to clear things got to be a pain. For years Chrysler Torqueflites had a system of three rods and two bellcranks to get from the carburetor to the throttle lever on the transmission. With the advent of FWD the throttle lever on the transmission was usually in a completely wrong position for a rod system so a nice cable, about the size of a bicycle brake cable was used. GM went from a rod system on the older Hydramatics to a vacuum modulator and a solenoid for WOT downshifts, then in the late 70s, reversed that on the THM200 with a TV cable. Ford also went to vacuum modulators starting in 1961 but used a downshift lever that was actuated at WOT either by a rod or cable depending on vehicle and engine. Borg-Warner on their automatics (Ford FMX is a Borg-Warner design) used a push cable on AMC products, pull cables on others, vacuum modulators with an integral solenoid for downshifts on others. A TV cable, whether external or internal allows the engineer a lot more flexibility in design as the arc of the throttle motion and the arc of the transmission lever are all that is needed to match one to the other. My turbo Chrysler uses a drum style connection for the accelerator cable, but a slot for the TV cable, so if the TV cable jams in the extended position, it will not prevent the throttle from closing. The slot is arc shaped and positioned so the cable is not bent too much in it's travel. On the transmission end, it attaches to a lever on the TV shaft. This is what it looks like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Work! And you do know what the “G” stood for, right? Read to the bottom of this: https://dallaslibrary2.org/blogs/bookedSolid/2017/08/one-word-maynard-g-krebs/ Thanks Gary, interesting reading! Although completely scatty… well, as the character was. I would personally have vote for "Gilligan", instead of a silent G preceding Walter. Maybe Wayne comes from a Dwayne who similarly decided that the D became silent. Who knows. Thanks to this mechanical-historical-cultural forum, we learn so much things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Well, first there are two different types of TV cable a pull style and a push style (sort of like the pushmepullyou from Dr. Dolittle). The pull style is the more normal and can be either an external or internal connection at the transmission end. Manufacturers found that making numerous changes of direction to clear things got to be a pain. For years Chrysler Torqueflites had a system of three rods and two bellcranks to get from the carburetor to the throttle lever on the transmission. With the advent of FWD the throttle lever on the transmission was usually in a completely wrong position for a rod system so a nice cable, about the size of a bicycle brake cable was used. GM went from a rod system on the older Hydramatics to a vacuum modulator and a solenoid for WOT downshifts, then in the late 70s, reversed that on the THM200 with a TV cable. Ford also went to vacuum modulators starting in 1961 but used a downshift lever that was actuated at WOT either by a rod or cable depending on vehicle and engine. Borg-Warner on their automatics (Ford FMX is a Borg-Warner design) used a push cable on AMC products, pull cables on others, vacuum modulators with an integral solenoid for downshifts on others. A TV cable, whether external or internal allows the engineer a lot more flexibility in design as the arc of the throttle motion and the arc of the transmission lever are all that is needed to match one to the other. My turbo Chrysler uses a drum style connection for the accelerator cable, but a slot for the TV cable, so if the TV cable jams in the extended position, it will not prevent the throttle from closing. The slot is arc shaped and positioned so the cable is not bent too much in it's travel. On the transmission end, it attaches to a lever on the TV shaft. This is what it looks like: Thanks Bill, you made my day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Thanks Gary, interesting reading! Although completely scatty… well, as the character was. I would personally have vote for "Gilligan", instead of a silent G preceding Walter. Maybe Wayne comes from a Dwayne who similarly decided that the D became silent. Who knows. Thanks to this mechanical-historical-cultural forum, we learn so much things! You can learn about TV things in several different guises: throttle valve and television. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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