Minor Re-org - Input Requested

[Gary Lewis]

The way the Fuel & Air Systems section is "organized" has raised my eyebrows each time I go there to look for something, but heretofore I've just shrugged and kept on trucking. However, this morning I realized I have a 200+ page document on EEC-V systems that I want to add, so I think now is the time to re-organize that section.

 

I've put together the Word document below to try to explain how I think it should be done, but really would like your help as there are several things that just don't fit very well. And I've included hot links for some of the things to make it easier for you to look at them.

 

Here are some of the ones nagging me:

 

• 1985-86 Fuel Systems: This covers both carbs and EFI. But at that point the EFI was only EEC-IV.

 

• 460 Fuel Systems: This is rather specific and covers both the carburetion awa electrical things.

 

• EFI Idle Speed Adjustment: This is really just EEC-IV, so could be moved under that heading.

 

• Fuel System Adjustments: I was thinking this could be a catch-all?

 

• Fuel System Wiring: Yes, it is "fuel systems", but it is "electrical" as well. Should it be here or there? Or, both - by placing a page there that links to this page, or vice versa?

 

• Fuel System Illustrations vs Part #'s: This section was done before I knew of "tabs", and I could consolidate things onto one page called something like Fuel System Part #'s & Illustrations. There'd be a tab for Illustrations and one for Part #'s. If you like that idea I can put it on the list to do when I can.

 

[ckuske]

That makes sense to me, Gary. Two questions:

Where does Diagnostics go in the new organization? Maybe make a Carbureted Diagnostics page vs EFI?

I know my truck is a weird one - but I have a Motorcraft 2150 carb with EEC-IV thats under EFI in the new structure. Maybe just add a note on the 2150 page that CA trucks will have EEC-IV with TFI with a link to the EEC-IV page?

 

[Gary Lewis]

That makes sense to me, Gary. Two questions:

Where does Diagnostics go in the new organization? Maybe make a Carbureted Diagnostics page vs EFI?

I know my truck is a weird one - but I have a Motorcraft 2150 carb with EEC-IV thats under EFI in the new structure. Maybe just add a note on the 2150 page that CA trucks will have EEC-IV with TFI with a link to the EEC-IV page?

Good question, Chris! I left that out.

So I've revised it a bit to out 1985-6 Fuel System Adjustments as well as Diagnostics in Fuel System Adjustments. What do you think?

[85lebaront2]

Good question, Chris! I left that out.

So I've revised it a bit to out 1985-6 Fuel System Adjustments as well as Diagnostics in Fuel System Adjustments. What do you think?

On sorting things as far as fuel and emission systems go, on carburetors I would do a section for non-feedback and another for feedback. This also will get the EEC-III and early EEC-IV carburetor systems together.

EFI, I would do a good section on the 1985/86 5.0L systems particularly the trouble areas, (ground connection, idle adjustment and the solenoid chatter if the TPS voltage is too high). Also the fuel delivery, even if you address that in another section. I would have a supplemental section on the 1987-95 SD systems as they are very similar, but the change in EGR control, addition of a vehicle speed input and a number of different circuit locations on the EEC connector are important for someone wanting to upgrade their system. EEC-IV 1994-95 with MAF and sequential injection, again as a supplement for those who want to modernize a 300, 351W or 460. EEC-V as an information section more than an in detail as it only was in trucks 1996 and 1997 HD, after that the Modular motors came in.

Ignition systems, DS-II, DS-III (used on EEC-III) and then TFI, both distributor mounted (which is the only one a Bullnose would have) and remote mount.

Hope these help, but as has been said before, it is your site and I am glad it exists!

[Gary Lewis]

On sorting things as far as fuel and emission systems go, on carburetors I would do a section for non-feedback and another for feedback. This also will get the EEC-III and early EEC-IV carburetor systems together.EFI, I would do a good section on the 1985/86 5.0L systems particularly the trouble areas, (ground connection, idle adjustment and the solenoid chatter if the TPS voltage is too high). Also the fuel delivery, even if you address that in another section. I would have a supplemental section on the 1987-95 SD systems as they are very similar, but the change in EGR control, addition of a vehicle speed input and a number of different circuit locations on the EEC connector are important for someone wanting to upgrade their system. EEC-IV 1994-95 with MAF and sequential injection, again as a supplement for those who want to modernize a 300, 351W or 460. EEC-V as an information section more than an in detail as it only was in trucks 1996 and 1997 HD, after that the Modular motors came in.Ignition systems, DS-II, DS-III (used on EEC-III) and then TFI, both distributor mounted (which is the only one a Bullnose would have) and remote mount.Hope these help, but as has been said before, it is your site and I am glad it exists!

Thanks, Bill. But I'm still trying to get my head around all you said. I think in some cases you are talking about additional pages or documents that we don't have yet and I'm trying to figure out how to organize what we already have. But it is good to think about what we might have in the future, so I'll see how to weave your ideas in.

 

However, I think you are on the right track with things at a high level: A carburetion section and an EFI section. Then we can organize within those to have feedback and non-feedback carbs separated, and the different EFI systems separated, with details about each.

 

Maybe part of the confusion is with the title of the section being "Fuel & Air Systems"? Perhaps it should be Carburetion & Fuel Injection? I say that because "Fuel & Air Systems" doesn't really imply electrical stuff, but when you throw in "Fuel Injection" it does. (Bill - I know what you are thinking. The Rochester system for the Fuelie didn't have any electrons in it. Nor did the K-Jetronic that was in my Audi. But the younger generation doesn't know about those systems. )

 

So, y'all, what about calling the section "Carburetion & Fuel Injection"?

[IowaTom]

Thanks, Bill. But I'm still trying to get my head around all you said. I think in some cases you are talking about additional pages or documents that we don't have yet and I'm trying to figure out how to organize what we already have. But it is good to think about what we might have in the future, so I'll see how to weave your ideas in.

 

However, I think you are on the right track with things at a high level: A carburetion section and an EFI section. Then we can organize within those to have feedback and non-feedback carbs separated, and the different EFI systems separated, with details about each.

 

Maybe part of the confusion is with the title of the section being "Fuel & Air Systems"? Perhaps it should be Carburetion & Fuel Injection? I say that because "Fuel & Air Systems" doesn't really imply electrical stuff, but when you throw in "Fuel Injection" it does. (Bill - I know what you are thinking. The Rochester system for the Fuelie didn't have any electrons in it. Nor did the K-Jetronic that was in my Audi. But the younger generation doesn't know about those systems. )

 

So, y'all, what about calling the section "Carburetion & Fuel Injection"?

Your attention to detail and care you have for those of us who drive & love these trucks blows my mind, Gary! Any question I've ever had in getting my truck rehabilitated has gotten a good answer, either from what you've posted or from guys chiming in.Thank you for the time, effort and I'm sure money involved in making this a great source of help for neophytes like me. Now, back to peeling the onion...

[Gary Lewis]

Your attention to detail and care you have for those of us who drive & love these trucks blows my mind, Gary! Any question I've ever had in getting my truck rehabilitated has gotten a good answer, either from what you've posted or from guys chiming in.

Thank you for the time, effort and I'm sure money involved in making this a great source of help for neophytes like me. Now, back to peeling the onion...

You are welcome, Tom. And don't forget your tissues.

[ckuske]

Good question, Chris! I left that out.

So I've revised it a bit to out 1985-6 Fuel System Adjustments as well as Diagnostics in Fuel System Adjustments. What do you think?

Works for me, sir. I also noticed Cold Starting Procedures is not in the new layout as well? Just a nit-pick.

[85lebaront2]

Thanks, Bill. But I'm still trying to get my head around all you said. I think in some cases you are talking about additional pages or documents that we don't have yet and I'm trying to figure out how to organize what we already have. But it is good to think about what we might have in the future, so I'll see how to weave your ideas in.

 

However, I think you are on the right track with things at a high level: A carburetion section and an EFI section. Then we can organize within those to have feedback and non-feedback carbs separated, and the different EFI systems separated, with details about each.

 

Maybe part of the confusion is with the title of the section being "Fuel & Air Systems"? Perhaps it should be Carburetion & Fuel Injection? I say that because "Fuel & Air Systems" doesn't really imply electrical stuff, but when you throw in "Fuel Injection" it does. (Bill - I know what you are thinking. The Rochester system for the Fuelie didn't have any electrons in it. Nor did the K-Jetronic that was in my Audi. But the younger generation doesn't know about those systems. )

 

So, y'all, what about calling the section "Carburetion & Fuel Injection"?

Probably a valid point Fuel and air systems could include the air induction, and on the carburetors the pre-heat systems. The electrical portion of the EFI systems also gets into the ignition as the same trigger systems in the distributor are used for both, particularly once you go into sequential injection.As engine management has moved from breaker points and carburetors (vergassers?) on to injection (einsprtiz?) and inductive and Hall effect triggers we now have DIS systems with individual coils so the fuel delivery is not only tailored to each cylinder, so is the ignition event. We also have drive by wire systems, with no mechanical connection from the accelerator pedal to the throttle.

[Gary Lewis]

Probably a valid point Fuel and air systems could include the air induction, and on the carburetors the pre-heat systems. The electrical portion of the EFI systems also gets into the ignition as the same trigger systems in the distributor are used for both, particularly once you go into sequential injection.

As engine management has moved from breaker points and carburetors (vergassers?) on to injection (einsprtiz?) and inductive and Hall effect triggers we now have DIS systems with individual coils so the fuel delivery is not only tailored to each cylinder, so is the ignition event. We also have drive by wire systems, with no mechanical connection from the accelerator pedal to the throttle.

If we rename "Fuel & Air Systems" to "Carburetion & Fuel Injection" where would we put the air intake stuff? I hadn't thought about how renaming would exclude air intake, but it does seem to do so. On the other hand, "Fuel & Air Systems" seems to exclude the electrical side of things, and starting with the feedback systems there sure is a lot of electrical in there.

Perhaps we should just leave it as "Fuel & Air Systems" since they really do incorporate a lot of electrical things?

Or, as you pointed out, "Engine Management" has evolved from points and carbs to full-on systems that do everything, inc the throttle. So maybe it should be "Engine Management" and we include Ignition?

We can always put a page or a link from Documentation/Electrical/Ignition to Documentation/Engine Management/Ignition, or vice versa.