Well I may have found my next truck, but I have questions

[Turnburn720]

So I've found a decent-looking 86 f250 for sale kind of near me, but I have some questions.

It has no engine, but still has a c6 460 transmission installed. Do I need to replace this with a carbureted 460, or can I drop in a fuel injected motor without much difference? I have seen the FIGuys kits but they're like 3 grand for a full conversion, I can get a remanned motor for that.

It's a 3/4 ton right now. To convert to a 1 ton, would I just be swapping leaf springs in the rear, or do I need a whole new axle? And are the front brakes different?

Has anyone come across a video with instructions on installing a 460 in this truck? I have found a few write-ups, which are great, but the visuals make a huge difference for me.

I THINK it's in my price range, and I'd really like to pull the trigger, but the only other thing that makes me nervous is the c6...is there any good way to bench test it to make sure that it's not shot?

Thanks in advance guys.

[Pete Whitstone]

It has no engine, but still has a c6 460 transmission installed. Do I need to replace this with a carbureted 460, or can I drop in a fuel injected motor without much difference?

The C6 is not going to care how the motor is getting its fuel, if that's the question you are asking. A C6 really only receives 2 "signal" inputs from the motor. Those are the position of the kickdown lever on the throttle linkage, and the manifold vacuum that goes to the modulator at the back. Both of those signals could come from a carb'd or FI engine, so no problem there.

C6's are some pretty tough old beasts, and certainly one of the cheapest transmissions to rebuild. Also one of the easiest to find used working units of. So I wouldn't be too scared of it.

I recently switched from a C6 with 3.00 rear gears, to an E4OD with 3.55 rear gears. I was assuming the 4th gear and the steeper rear gears would pretty much cancel each other out, and my mileage would be roughly the same. But the C6 got about 9-10mpg, and the E4OD is pulling down about 13-14mpg. Something to consider, depending on your plans for the truck.

 

[Machspeed]

It has no engine, but still has a c6 460 transmission installed. Do I need to replace this with a carbureted 460, or can I drop in a fuel injected motor without much difference?

The C6 is not going to care how the motor is getting its fuel, if that's the question you are asking. A C6 really only receives 2 "signal" inputs from the motor. Those are the position of the kickdown lever on the throttle linkage, and the manifold vacuum that goes to the modulator at the back. Both of those signals could come from a carb'd or FI engine, so no problem there.

C6's are some pretty tough old beasts, and certainly one of the cheapest transmissions to rebuild. Also one of the easiest to find used working units of. So I wouldn't be too scared of it.

I recently switched from a C6 with 3.00 rear gears, to an E4OD with 3.55 rear gears. I was assuming the 4th gear and the steeper rear gears would pretty much cancel each other out, and my mileage would be roughly the same. But the C6 got about 9-10mpg, and the E4OD is pulling down about 13-14mpg. Something to consider, depending on your plans for the truck.

Pete, that's quite an improvement in fuel mileage. Is this trans in the truck in your signature? My truck is a 4x4 with 351, C6 trans, and 3:55 gears. I'd love to have another gear. What changes would need to be made to make that happen? Do you have a thread here on that swap?

[Pete Whitstone]

Pete, that's quite an improvement in fuel mileage. Is this trans in the truck in your signature? My truck is a 4x4 with 351, C6 trans, and 3:55 gears. I'd love to have another gear. What changes would need to be made to make that happen? Do you have a thread here on that swap?

Hi John, it was not just a trans swap, it was a 2x4 to 4x4 swap as well. But you already have 4x4, so a lot of the work I did would not apply. To get from where you are now to running an E4OD, you would have to:

1. Get the appropriate E4OD case - there are 4 different bell housing patterns on E4ODs, and they don't have interchangeable/removable bell housings. In addition you would need it to be a 4x4 E4OD, so you would have the tail extension to bolt to the transfer case. So getting the right transmission would be the first hurdle.

2. The E4OD is longer than the C6, so I'm not sure what that would do to your cross-member situation. Most likely you should be able to move your existing cross-member back, so drilling some new holes in your chassis would be needed.

3. Since the E4OD is longer, if you have a mechanical speedo cable, you will need a longer one.

4. Since the E4OD is longer, you will have to have your drive shaft shortened.

5. Since the E4OD is longer, you may run into interference between your transfer case and your gas tank. I have a short wheel base truck, single cab and short bed. My truck had the 16 gallon tank and I still had to do some clearancing to make room for the transfer case. I used a '95 transfer case which is activated by a motor, so that was a lot of the clearance issue. If you have a longer wheel base truck it might not be a concern. If your transfer case is manually activated, you might have to get longer rods or cables or whatever, since your TC will move back about 6-8 inches.

6. The E in E4OD stands for Electronic, so you will need a computer to control the thing, as well as some other sensors. My truck has a 4160 style carb on it, I had to add a TPS to it. This basically takes the place of the C6 kickdown lever. I bought this, along with a trans controller, from Baumann/US Shift. The controller I got was the Quick 2, very happy with it so far. The alternative is to swap in full-on Ford EEC stuff from a later truck which had an E4OD, but that requires you to have an FI engine, and of course limits your engine modification potential.

7. The selector lever on the C6 is the reverse of the E4OD. You could address this by swapping all of the shift lever stuff from a later truck, or you could do what I did and flip the shift selector lever upside down so it points towards the ground. Then you just need to make a rod that interfaces to your old C6 stuff.

As far as cost, you are looking at the cost of the E4OD itself (let's say you find a good working unit for $1000), the trans controller and sensors ($800), shortening the driveshaft ($250), and fluid (uses about 4 gallons, so $140). So depending on cost of the trans, you are probably looking at a couple grand.

I have parts of this documented in my build thread, found here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Deuce-Build-Thread-td106643.html

[Gary Lewis]

The E in E4OD stands for Electronic, so you will need a computer to control the thing, as well as some other sensors.... The alternative is to swap in full-on Ford EEC stuff from a later truck which had an E4OD, but that requires you to have an FI engine, and of course limits your engine modification potential.

(John is very likely to come back and say "I like my carb!". Or "When I see that wiring mess I freak!" We've had this conversation. )

 

[Machspeed]

Hi John, it was not just a trans swap, it was a 2x4 to 4x4 swap as well. But you already have 4x4, so a lot of the work I did would not apply. To get from where you are now to running an E4OD, you would have to:

1. Get the appropriate E4OD case - there are 4 different bell housing patterns on E4ODs, and they don't have interchangeable/removable bell housings. In addition you would need it to be a 4x4 E4OD, so you would have the tail extension to bolt to the transfer case. So getting the right transmission would be the first hurdle.

2. The E4OD is longer than the C6, so I'm not sure what that would do to your cross-member situation. Most likely you should be able to move your existing cross-member back, so drilling some new holes in your chassis would be needed.

3. Since the E4OD is longer, if you have a mechanical speedo cable, you will need a longer one.

4. Since the E4OD is longer, you will have to have your drive shaft shortened.

5. Since the E4OD is longer, you may run into interference between your transfer case and your gas tank. I have a short wheel base truck, single cab and short bed. My truck had the 16 gallon tank and I still had to do some clearancing to make room for the transfer case. I used a '95 transfer case which is activated by a motor, so that was a lot of the clearance issue. If you have a longer wheel base truck it might not be a concern. If your transfer case is manually activated, you might have to get longer rods or cables or whatever, since your TC will move back about 6-8 inches.

6. The E in E4OD stands for Electronic, so you will need a computer to control the thing, as well as some other sensors. My truck has a 4160 style carb on it, I had to add a TPS to it. This basically takes the place of the C6 kickdown lever. I bought this, along with a trans controller, from Baumann/US Shift. The controller I got was the Quick 2, very happy with it so far. The alternative is to swap in full-on Ford EEC stuff from a later truck which had an E4OD, but that requires you to have an FI engine, and of course limits your engine modification potential.

7. The selector lever on the C6 is the reverse of the E4OD. You could address this by swapping all of the shift lever stuff from a later truck, or you could do what I did and flip the shift selector lever upside down so it points towards the ground. Then you just need to make a rod that interfaces to your old C6 stuff.

As far as cost, you are looking at the cost of the E4OD itself (let's say you find a good working unit for $1000), the trans controller and sensors ($800), shortening the driveshaft ($250), and fluid (uses about 4 gallons, so $140). So depending on cost of the trans, you are probably looking at a couple grand.

I have parts of this documented in my build thread, found here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Deuce-Build-Thread-td106643.html

Gary, I'd take on this transmission mod long before I'd convert my truck to a factory style EFI....LOL! And, I do like my carb!

Pete, I have a shortbed with dual tanks; sounds like that could be a bit of a road block. I'm going to save this info in a Word Document and put it away. When I pull the engine, this may be something I look into. Thanks a bunch, Pete.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I'd take on this transmission mod long before I'd convert my truck to a factory style EFI....LOL! And, I do like my carb!

Pete, I have a shortbed with dual tanks; sounds like that could be a bit of a road block. I'm going to save this info in a Word Document and put it away. When I pull the engine, this may be something I look into. Thanks a bunch, Pete.

You could have an AOD built to handle your engine's power. This article in Motor Trend says "that with the right parts, the AOD can take up to 800 hp." Then you don't need a computer.

[grumpin]

Hi John, it was not just a trans swap, it was a 2x4 to 4x4 swap as well. But you already have 4x4, so a lot of the work I did would not apply. To get from where you are now to running an E4OD, you would have to:

1. Get the appropriate E4OD case - there are 4 different bell housing patterns on E4ODs, and they don't have interchangeable/removable bell housings. In addition you would need it to be a 4x4 E4OD, so you would have the tail extension to bolt to the transfer case. So getting the right transmission would be the first hurdle.

2. The E4OD is longer than the C6, so I'm not sure what that would do to your cross-member situation. Most likely you should be able to move your existing cross-member back, so drilling some new holes in your chassis would be needed.

3. Since the E4OD is longer, if you have a mechanical speedo cable, you will need a longer one.

4. Since the E4OD is longer, you will have to have your drive shaft shortened.

5. Since the E4OD is longer, you may run into interference between your transfer case and your gas tank. I have a short wheel base truck, single cab and short bed. My truck had the 16 gallon tank and I still had to do some clearancing to make room for the transfer case. I used a '95 transfer case which is activated by a motor, so that was a lot of the clearance issue. If you have a longer wheel base truck it might not be a concern. If your transfer case is manually activated, you might have to get longer rods or cables or whatever, since your TC will move back about 6-8 inches.

6. The E in E4OD stands for Electronic, so you will need a computer to control the thing, as well as some other sensors. My truck has a 4160 style carb on it, I had to add a TPS to it. This basically takes the place of the C6 kickdown lever. I bought this, along with a trans controller, from Baumann/US Shift. The controller I got was the Quick 2, very happy with it so far. The alternative is to swap in full-on Ford EEC stuff from a later truck which had an E4OD, but that requires you to have an FI engine, and of course limits your engine modification potential.

7. The selector lever on the C6 is the reverse of the E4OD. You could address this by swapping all of the shift lever stuff from a later truck, or you could do what I did and flip the shift selector lever upside down so it points towards the ground. Then you just need to make a rod that interfaces to your old C6 stuff.

As far as cost, you are looking at the cost of the E4OD itself (let's say you find a good working unit for $1000), the trans controller and sensors ($800), shortening the driveshaft ($250), and fluid (uses about 4 gallons, so $140). So depending on cost of the trans, you are probably looking at a couple grand.

I have parts of this documented in my build thread, found here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Deuce-Build-Thread-td106643.html

The front driveshaft would have to be lengthened correct Pete?

[Pete Whitstone]

The front driveshaft would have to be lengthened correct Pete?

That is a good point, yes it would. I did not think of that. I got all the stuff from a '95 with a 351w and the E4OD, so the front driveshaft I got was already the correct length.

It would probably be cheaper to source a used front shaft from a later truck, than to have an earlier trucks front shaft lengthened.

[grumpin]

The front driveshaft would have to be lengthened correct Pete?

That is a good point, yes it would. I did not think of that. I got all the stuff from a '95 with a 351w and the E4OD, so the front driveshaft I got was already the correct length.

It would probably be cheaper to source a used front shaft from a later truck, than to have an earlier trucks front shaft lengthened.

Ok, I like the idea of getting a front driveshaft and rear for that matter. Would be nice to find a donor truck like you did. Get the crossmember and all.

If there was one thing I did to my truck, it would be the E4OD. Even though I like my C6 a lot for it’s brute toughness, glug, glug ,glug on the gasoline!