Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

[Nothing Special]

In this thread Gary was asking for advice / recommendations about fourwheeling in the Ouray area. I was scheduled to spend 5 days 'wheeling near Ouray (with a "bonus" day on Spring Creek Trail near Denver) right after he started that thread, so this is pretty fitting! In this thread I'll give my trip report (flavored slightly by the idea that Gary might be driving these trails in a full-size truck). And of course I welcome discussion in this thread. But I'll put my more specific recommendations to Gary in his thread, after I finish this trip report.

In this first post I'll give an overview, then I'll follow up with more specifics and more pictures from each day.

This ended up being our first "empty nest" 'wheeling trip. Our kids (ages 22 and 24 now) have gone with us on all of trips up to last year, but lives got in the way this year, so it was just my wife and me in my '71 Bronco.

I've 'wheeled Spring Creek Trail 4 times before ('87 in a friends stock '87 YJ, '93 in my old '71 CJ5, '94 in my old stock '85 F-250 and '00 in the CJ5 again). It was my first experience fourwheeling so it holds a special place for me, and I wanted to try it again (turns out it's changed a LOT!). My wife's favorite family 'wheeling location was Ouray in 2000, and she wanted to go back there for a second time. So we had our itinerary.

This was also the first time I've had a front locker. I've had a Detroit in the rear axle of both my old CJ5 and my Bronco, but I've always had an open front until putting an OX locker in the front of the Bronco this spring. I LOVE IT! I'd lock it before trying a climb that I though might need it (or after failing once), or before a descent where I thought I might lift a front tire and lose traction for compression braking. I never really had trouble maneuvering with it locked (although it is a LOT harder to turn the steering wheel when it's locked and I'm not moving). And I didn't have much trouble with it hanging up when I tried to disengage it (it occasionally took a slight turn or two before it would disengage, but it was never a problem).

So on to the trip... We towed the Bronco out behind our motorhome. Everything went really well with that. Here we are at the top of Monarch Pass on our way to Ouray.

We stayed at the Ouray KOA just north of town. That ended up being a good location and a pretty nice campground as well, with trees and a little space between sites (some campgrounds around Ouray look a lot like parking lots full of motorhomes and Jeeps).

The mix of vehicles we saw was interesting. In the first couple of days I saw mostly JKUs, with JLUs probably being second (all of the rentals are JLs). There were also a lot of early Broncos in town (but I never saw any other on the trails). Turns out there was a Bronco club from Texas there that week.

There were also a lot of full size Jeeps in our campground (I never saw them on the trails). Mostly Wagoneers with Cherokee/J-truck grills. Turns out there was a FSJ invasion that week as well.

And later in the week we saw mostly FJ Cruisers, with FourRunners probably coming in ahead of the JKs. Turns out there was an FJ Summit event in Ouray then too! This all combined to make the trails rather crowded, and we did have to wait in line at times. But the waits were never that bad.

The only fullsize trucks I saw were the tour "jeeps" that you can buy rides in (mostly French trucks). (I don't count fullsize Jeeps as fullsize trucks, they are noticeably smaller than other fullsize tricks. But I didn't see any of them on the trails anyway.)

And there were always lots of ATVs, especially side-by-sides (ATVs probably outnumbered trucks).

I'll follow up with day trip reports as I can get time.

 

[Nothing Special]

One thing that's very useful on these trails is a good map or two. I have an Uncompahgre National Forest map what is good with lots of detail. But sometimes too much detail is a problem. Below are a couple of maps with very little detail, pretty much just the trails. I wouldn't rely only on them, but sometimes it's easier to find things on a map with no clutter.

The top map is sort of the entire area. The lower one is zoomed in to the area I spent most of my time (not including Black Bear and Imogene, but they show up well on the first map).

In both maps the trail colors just indicate different trails, with the trail names in (roughly) the same color as the trail. All of the colored trails are actual tracks from my GPS. The black tracks are estimates from the electronic map I have. They should be pretty good, but I don't guarantee the accuracy, and I have little idea what the trails are like (although I think most of them are pretty easy).

Towns are listed by name, and I show where we found restrooms on the trails (important when you are traveling with your wife!). There are a few places on the top map where I couldn't get the marker or label in the right place, so I use a white line to show where it really goes.

[Nothing Special]

One thing that's very useful on these trails is a good map or two. I have an Uncompahgre National Forest map what is good with lots of detail. But sometimes too much detail is a problem. Below are a couple of maps with very little detail, pretty much just the trails. I wouldn't rely only on them, but sometimes it's easier to find things on a map with no clutter.

The top map is sort of the entire area. The lower one is zoomed in to the area I spent most of my time (not including Black Bear and Imogene, but they show up well on the first map).

In both maps the trail colors just indicate different trails, with the trail names in (roughly) the same color as the trail. All of the colored trails are actual tracks from my GPS. The black tracks are estimates from the electronic map I have. They should be pretty good, but I don't guarantee the accuracy, and I have little idea what the trails are like (although I think most of them are pretty easy).

Towns are listed by name, and I show where we found restrooms on the trails (important when you are traveling with your wife!). There are a few places on the top map where I couldn't get the marker or label in the right place, so I use a white line to show where it really goes.

Ouray - Day 1: Engineer Mountain Road - Mineral Point - Animas Cutoff - Cinnamon Pass - Sherman Road - Cinnamon Pass - California Gulch - Hurricane Pass - Corkscrew Pass - Corkscrew Gulch

Over the last couple of 'wheeling trips my younger son has gotten a lot better, first as a driver but then also as a spotter. But without him on this trip my wife said she wanted to be eased into the 'wheeling: no Black Bear or Poughkeepsie until she felt comfortable. So we started with a pretty easy day. Most of the trails are on the Alpine Loop which they send tourists on in stock vehicles.

Engineer Mountain Road starts up from Highway 550 a few miles up from (south of) Ouray. As it turned out, there was a landslide a week or so before we got there that had closed 550. They had one lane open by the time we were there, and Engineer Mountain Road started from one end of the one lane section, right where they were doing road work. Add people airing down, or unloading ATVs and it was pretty crowded at the trail head!

Engineer Mountain Road is probably the roughest, most difficult section of the Alpine Loop. It's not really technical anywhere, but I did drag my diffs a few places when I stopped paying attention. There were also a couple of places where an optional line made it a little more interesting, and even one that I agreed not to try without my son's help. It's biggest challenge is that, like most trails in the area, it's a two-way trail that's not wide enough for 2 vehicles. It generally works out though, as people realize you're all in the same situation and usually someone is close enough to a wide spot to make it work. Overall it seemed like a nice "beginner 'wheeling" trail, and was fun and scenic enough for us as well.

Mineral Point is a side trip near the top of Engineer Mountain Road. It went by an old mine and then connected back to the main trail (but unfortunately missing the restroom that's on Engineer Mountain Road). Nothing very challenging on the trail (the part of the main trail that it bypasses isn't hard either).

Animas Cutoff might not be the official name, but it's the trail that comes off Engineer Mountain Road where it starts up Engineer Pass and heads down to the ghost town of Animas Forks. It's an easy dirt road, narrow and rough enough to keep the speed down, but no challenge.

Cinnamon Pass splits off the Animas Cutoff just above Animas Forks. Like the Animas Cutoff, it's too rough to go fast and too smooth to be fun. Unlike the Animas Cutoff, it's long. We drove 12 miles in 1.5 hours each way. My wife thinks I picked such a long, boring trail to make her agree to do more "interesting" trails like Poughkeepsie and Black Bear! Actually I was just exploring trails I'd never been on. In Cinnamon Pass's defense, it is scenic, and for people who aren't into challenging 'wheeling it's a good way to get above treeline. And it's one of two ways (Engineer Pass being the other) to get from Lake City into these trails. So if anyone else wants to take Cinnamon Pass I won't stop you. But my wife will stop me!

Sherman is a mine site on the east side of Cinnamon Pass, with a trail going south west up into a gulch. We drove up it about 3.5 miles before my wife realized that it was a dead-end and we were going to end up backtracking it before going back over Cinnamon Pass. Not a lot of challenge, and it was all below treeline, so no big vistas. Again I wouldn't give this a very hearty recommendation, but I won't try to stop you either.

There's another side trail off Cinnamon Pass that goes up American Basin I was going to explore that as well, but my wife said "no". So we backtracked over Cinnamon Pass (another 1.5 hours) to Animas Forks.

After using the restroom in Animas Forks we took California Gulch, Hurricane Pass, Corkscrew Pass and Corkscrew Gulch back to highway 550. Again not a lot of challenge, but it's the only way (other than going back on Engineer Mountain Road) to get back to Ouray. Not a bad drive (about 11 miles in 2.5 hours compared to 9 miles in 2.5 miles for Engineer Mountain Road).

Looking up California Gulch:

Looking from Hurricane Pass toward Corkscrew Pass

Looking down the top part of Corkscrew Gulch

[Gary Lewis]

Ouray - Day 1: Engineer Mountain Road - Mineral Point - Animas Cutoff - Cinnamon Pass - Sherman Road - Cinnamon Pass - California Gulch - Hurricane Pass - Corkscrew Pass - Corkscrew Gulch

Over the last couple of 'wheeling trips my younger son has gotten a lot better, first as a driver but then also as a spotter. But without him on this trip my wife said she wanted to be eased into the 'wheeling: no Black Bear or Poughkeepsie until she felt comfortable. So we started with a pretty easy day. Most of the trails are on the Alpine Loop which they send tourists on in stock vehicles.

Engineer Mountain Road starts up from Highway 550 a few miles up from (south of) Ouray. As it turned out, there was a landslide a week or so before we got there that had closed 550. They had one lane open by the time we were there, and Engineer Mountain Road started from one end of the one lane section, right where they were doing road work. Add people airing down, or unloading ATVs and it was pretty crowded at the trail head!

Engineer Mountain Road is probably the roughest, most difficult section of the Alpine Loop. It's not really technical anywhere, but I did drag my diffs a few places when I stopped paying attention. There were also a couple of places where an optional line made it a little more interesting, and even one that I agreed not to try without my son's help. It's biggest challenge is that, like most trails in the area, it's a two-way trail that's not wide enough for 2 vehicles. It generally works out though, as people realize you're all in the same situation and usually someone is close enough to a wide spot to make it work. Overall it seemed like a nice "beginner 'wheeling" trail, and was fun and scenic enough for us as well.

Mineral Point is a side trip near the top of Engineer Mountain Road. It went by an old mine and then connected back to the main trail (but unfortunately missing the restroom that's on Engineer Mountain Road). Nothing very challenging on the trail (the part of the main trail that it bypasses isn't hard either).

Animas Cutoff might not be the official name, but it's the trail that comes off Engineer Mountain Road where it starts up Engineer Pass and heads down to the ghost town of Animas Forks. It's an easy dirt road, narrow and rough enough to keep the speed down, but no challenge.

Cinnamon Pass splits off the Animas Cutoff just above Animas Forks. Like the Animas Cutoff, it's too rough to go fast and too smooth to be fun. Unlike the Animas Cutoff, it's long. We drove 12 miles in 1.5 hours each way. My wife thinks I picked such a long, boring trail to make her agree to do more "interesting" trails like Poughkeepsie and Black Bear! Actually I was just exploring trails I'd never been on. In Cinnamon Pass's defense, it is scenic, and for people who aren't into challenging 'wheeling it's a good way to get above treeline. And it's one of two ways (Engineer Pass being the other) to get from Lake City into these trails. So if anyone else wants to take Cinnamon Pass I won't stop you. But my wife will stop me!

Sherman is a mine site on the east side of Cinnamon Pass, with a trail going south west up into a gulch. We drove up it about 3.5 miles before my wife realized that it was a dead-end and we were going to end up backtracking it before going back over Cinnamon Pass. Not a lot of challenge, and it was all below treeline, so no big vistas. Again I wouldn't give this a very hearty recommendation, but I won't try to stop you either.

There's another side trail off Cinnamon Pass that goes up American Basin I was going to explore that as well, but my wife said "no". So we backtracked over Cinnamon Pass (another 1.5 hours) to Animas Forks.

After using the restroom in Animas Forks we took California Gulch, Hurricane Pass, Corkscrew Pass and Corkscrew Gulch back to highway 550. Again not a lot of challenge, but it's the only way (other than going back on Engineer Mountain Road) to get back to Ouray. Not a bad drive (about 11 miles in 2.5 hours compared to 9 miles in 2.5 miles for Engineer Mountain Road).

Looking up California Gulch:

Looking from Hurricane Pass toward Corkscrew Pass

Looking down the top part of Corkscrew Gulch

I'm ready to go!!! But Big Blue isn't. So much I want to do to him before we go.

Anyway, I absolutely LOVE the pics. Stunning scenery! Inspiring.

As for the crowds, it does sound sorta busy, especially with the clubs there. However, we will probably go a bit later in the year and hope many people will be home from their vacations.

I do have a few questions. What are JKU's and JLU's? And what is "Est" on the map? And you saw a lot of Wagoneers? And why the Cherokee/Jeep-truck grills on them? Is that an upgrade of some sort?

The maps are a huge help. It is difficult to get my head around all the different trails, but having things laid out in the thread helps significantly. Thanks.

Anyway, patiently awaiting MORE!

[Nothing Special]

Ouray - Day 1: Engineer Mountain Road - Mineral Point - Animas Cutoff - Cinnamon Pass - Sherman Road - Cinnamon Pass - California Gulch - Hurricane Pass - Corkscrew Pass - Corkscrew Gulch

Over the last couple of 'wheeling trips my younger son has gotten a lot better, first as a driver but then also as a spotter. But without him on this trip my wife said she wanted to be eased into the 'wheeling: no Black Bear or Poughkeepsie until she felt comfortable. So we started with a pretty easy day. Most of the trails are on the Alpine Loop which they send tourists on in stock vehicles.

Engineer Mountain Road starts up from Highway 550 a few miles up from (south of) Ouray. As it turned out, there was a landslide a week or so before we got there that had closed 550. They had one lane open by the time we were there, and Engineer Mountain Road started from one end of the one lane section, right where they were doing road work. Add people airing down, or unloading ATVs and it was pretty crowded at the trail head!

Engineer Mountain Road is probably the roughest, most difficult section of the Alpine Loop. It's not really technical anywhere, but I did drag my diffs a few places when I stopped paying attention. There were also a couple of places where an optional line made it a little more interesting, and even one that I agreed not to try without my son's help. It's biggest challenge is that, like most trails in the area, it's a two-way trail that's not wide enough for 2 vehicles. It generally works out though, as people realize you're all in the same situation and usually someone is close enough to a wide spot to make it work. Overall it seemed like a nice "beginner 'wheeling" trail, and was fun and scenic enough for us as well.

Mineral Point is a side trip near the top of Engineer Mountain Road. It went by an old mine and then connected back to the main trail (but unfortunately missing the restroom that's on Engineer Mountain Road). Nothing very challenging on the trail (the part of the main trail that it bypasses isn't hard either).

Animas Cutoff might not be the official name, but it's the trail that comes off Engineer Mountain Road where it starts up Engineer Pass and heads down to the ghost town of Animas Forks. It's an easy dirt road, narrow and rough enough to keep the speed down, but no challenge.

Cinnamon Pass splits off the Animas Cutoff just above Animas Forks. Like the Animas Cutoff, it's too rough to go fast and too smooth to be fun. Unlike the Animas Cutoff, it's long. We drove 12 miles in 1.5 hours each way. My wife thinks I picked such a long, boring trail to make her agree to do more "interesting" trails like Poughkeepsie and Black Bear! Actually I was just exploring trails I'd never been on. In Cinnamon Pass's defense, it is scenic, and for people who aren't into challenging 'wheeling it's a good way to get above treeline. And it's one of two ways (Engineer Pass being the other) to get from Lake City into these trails. So if anyone else wants to take Cinnamon Pass I won't stop you. But my wife will stop me!

Sherman is a mine site on the east side of Cinnamon Pass, with a trail going south west up into a gulch. We drove up it about 3.5 miles before my wife realized that it was a dead-end and we were going to end up backtracking it before going back over Cinnamon Pass. Not a lot of challenge, and it was all below treeline, so no big vistas. Again I wouldn't give this a very hearty recommendation, but I won't try to stop you either.

There's another side trail off Cinnamon Pass that goes up American Basin I was going to explore that as well, but my wife said "no". So we backtracked over Cinnamon Pass (another 1.5 hours) to Animas Forks.

After using the restroom in Animas Forks we took California Gulch, Hurricane Pass, Corkscrew Pass and Corkscrew Gulch back to highway 550. Again not a lot of challenge, but it's the only way (other than going back on Engineer Mountain Road) to get back to Ouray. Not a bad drive (about 11 miles in 2.5 hours compared to 9 miles in 2.5 miles for Engineer Mountain Road).

Looking up California Gulch:

Looking from Hurricane Pass toward Corkscrew Pass

Looking down the top part of Corkscrew Gulch

Ouray Day 2: Black Bear Road and Imogene Pass

On day 2 my wife wasn't ready for Poughkeepsie, but she OK'd Black Bear! As we discussed in Gary's thread, Black Bear is infamous for being an extremely dangerous shelf road with extremely tight switchbacks. Does it deserve the reputation? I had an opinion from when I ran it the first time 18 years ago, but I really wanted to experience it a second time, and see if the experience was similar to the first time.

Black Bear Road starts at the summit of Red Mountain Pass on highway 550, so not a long drive from Ouray. A group of about 10 Toyotas (mostly FourRunners, but a few FJ Cruisers thrown in) were starting up as we pulled off to air down.

The trail up to the top of the pass is pretty easy (3.3 miles / 42 minutes). There was one optional line at about 2.9 miles (just below the pass) that was a steeper, rockier climb. The step at the top was a little too tall and steep for me to attempt with just my wife along, so we turned around and took the main trail the rest of the way up.

At the top of the pass we caught up with the Toyotas. We chatted a little and I learned that they had a broad range of experience. One guy (Justin Fort) is a writer for Off-Road.com with a lot of experience, and there were others like him. But there were also some who had never done anything like this and had to be talked into it to begin with. I was thinking about trying to jump ahead of them, but they were getting ready to start down from the pass about as we got up, so I wasn't rude.

The trail down the bowl on the back side of the pass was a little more challenging that I remembered (probably more a testament to my memory than a reflection on the trail). Definitely not technical, but a few places where you could get a little tippy if you didn't pay attention to how you turned into a hole. The last section of this, where it gets a little more "interesting", is called "The Steps" (still not hard to get through, but will get the attention of a beginner).

Edit to add in December 2021: I finally started a YouTube channel, so here's a short video clip of driving down "The Steps" at the bottom of this bowl:

We caught the Toyotas near the bottom of the bowl. Following them down was fine until they started going around "Adios Curve" (which I learned is the at least semi-official name of the start of the "fun" section). Some of the greener drivers were starting to look pretty green! We saw one climb out of his vehicle (still a few car lengths above Adios Curve) and lay on the ground for a while! After about a 20 minute delay there we were able to get started. They stopped at the first switchback, and on the wide section right after that and let the backed up traffic pass them. Including the 20 minute delay it took about 1:20 to drive the 3.3 miles from the pass down to Adios Curve.

The picture below shows one of the Toyotas staged just above Adios Curve. It looks tipped down a lot in the picture, and when you look at the background you can see that the camera is tipped down too! The trail is pretty steep there! What I remembered most from my first time on Black Bear was the huge adrenaline rush as I went around Adios Curve, down to and around the first switchback. By that time I had settled down. This time, even 18 years later, there really was no rush like that. It was still fun, but I wasn't at all spooked. I still get why people do freak out on it, especially the first time. But I felt like I knew what to expect and it wasn't that big a deal.

Below Adios Curve are the switchbacks. They are tight, requiring me to back up once on almost all of them. That's another place that novice drivers (or passengers) can freak out. You need to pull far enough forward that you can't see the edge over your hood to have enough room to back up and complete the turn. And on a couple of the switchbacks the trail is twisted enough that you might cross up if you make your turn at the wrong time (18 years ago I saw a TJ need to engage a locker to back up on the second switchback). It doesn't seem to be an issue for most, and certainly wasn't for me with my rear Detroit. There was a "tour bus" behind us on the trail, a fullsize Chevy standard cab shortbox that had been converted to carry a bunch of passengers in the back. The (very experienced) driver had no trouble getting that truck down either, and he said that they also have longbox trucks for when they have a bigger group.

The trail between the switchbacks is narrow, and the slope (cliff?) it's on is steep, another source of pucker factor. These pics show that a little.

From Adios Curve to Bridal Veil Falls took about 40 minutes to drive the 1 mile, including a couple of stops to wait for broken Jeeps (a JK with engine issues and an undetermined later model with a broken steering stabilizer). Another 30 minutes brought us the last 4.5 miles down to the town park in Telluride.

This picture, from lower on the trail, shows the trail from another perspective. Adios Curve is at the lowest place of the "horizon" (slightly to the left of the waterfall). And you can see the trail scratching its way back and forth across the hill.

After lunch in the park we headed back to Ouray over Imogene Pass. Mostly it's a pretty easy trail, but there are some "playgrounds" on both sides near the pass where you can take some optional lines (and there was a port-a-potty there too!). Overall it took us about 3 hours to drive the 16.7 miles from Telluride to Ouray. My wife asked what the big deal was with Imogene since so many people had asked if we'd done it. The only thing I could think of was that it's a novices Black Bear. Steep, shelfy and tight switchbacks that can make it exciting (just not as steep, shelfy or tight as Black Bear). And since I heard the Jeep rental places don't allow you to take their vehicles on Black Bear (or Poughkeepsie), Imogene is probably one of the scarier trails many go on.

For us Imogene was still a fun trail. And since Black Bear is one-way, once you take it from Ouray to Telluride Imogene is about the only trail option back from Telluride to Ouray. And for us it definitely beats ~45 miles of highway!

So in the end, is Black Bear as dangerous as the say? If you measure danger by how easily a mistake can get you killed, then I guess it certainly deserves it. But then again, a mistake can easily get you killed on the freeway too, and I wouldn't say Black Bear is even as dangerous as a freeway. Still, any driver who is prone to panic can REALLY get themself in trouble on Black Bear. And forcing some people down as passengers could put a serious strain on some relationships! So Black Bear isn't for everyone. But it really is a pretty easy trail. So a very fun day, but not challenging.

[Nothing Special]

I'm ready to go!!! But Big Blue isn't. So much I want to do to him before we go.

Anyway, I absolutely LOVE the pics. Stunning scenery! Inspiring.

As for the crowds, it does sound sorta busy, especially with the clubs there. However, we will probably go a bit later in the year and hope many people will be home from their vacations.

Thanks! As to the crowds, I think that's not too uncommon (the FJ Summit was maybe pretty big). But it's a BIG area, so it rarely was an issue. And even when it was, it was generally only a pretty short delay. If you're looking for seclusion, Ouray won't give it to you. But that's not to say it's too crowded.

I do have a few questions. What are JKU's and JLU's? And what is "Est" on the map? And you saw a lot of Wagoneers? And why the Cherokee/Jeep-truck grills on them? Is that an upgrade of some sort?

Sorry, Jeep jargon. JKs are the 2007(?) - early 2018 Wranglers. JLs are the new 2018 Wranglers. The "U" is for "Unlimited" which designates the 4-door version.

Prior to the mid-size Cherokee and Wagoneer that people today are familiar with (from the '80s - 2001), they were based on the old "fullsize" J-series pickups. The Wagoneer was the 4 door version, the Cherokee had 2 doors. The Cherokee and the J-trucks had a vertical slot grill (about 22 slots if I recall, not the 7 that Jeep says they always have) while the Wagoneers had a more "elegant" looking grill. It seems no one likes the Wagoneer grills. Or maybe they're hard to find. Anyway, most of the Wagoneers had the vertical slot grills.

The maps are a huge help. It is difficult to get my head around all the different trails, but having things laid out in the thread helps significantly. Thanks.

Anyway, patiently awaiting MORE!

Yeah, we ended up giving away one map to a lost person on the trail, and helping another who had a national forest map figure out where they were (which was not where they thought or wanted). I had a simple hand-drawn map from an old trail guide that was very helpful, and my "sketched" map on mt GPS which was VERY helpful because it also showed exactly where we were on the map.

And back to your earlier question, "Est" is "estimated". Those are the trails I drew in by hand using the GPS base map as a guide. If the base map is correct (and it frequently was), then those lines are accurate. But I can't otherwise vouch for them.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I'm ready to go!!! But Big Blue isn't. So much I want to do to him before we go.

Anyway, I absolutely LOVE the pics. Stunning scenery! Inspiring.

As for the crowds, it does sound sorta busy, especially with the clubs there. However, we will probably go a bit later in the year and hope many people will be home from their vacations.

Thanks! As to the crowds, I think that's not too uncommon (the FJ Summit was maybe pretty big). But it's a BIG area, so it rarely was an issue. And even when it was, it was generally only a pretty short delay. If you're looking for seclusion, Ouray won't give it to you. But that's not to say it's too crowded.

I do have a few questions. What are JKU's and JLU's? And what is "Est" on the map? And you saw a lot of Wagoneers? And why the Cherokee/Jeep-truck grills on them? Is that an upgrade of some sort?

Sorry, Jeep jargon. JKs are the 2007(?) - early 2018 Wranglers. JLs are the new 2018 Wranglers. The "U" is for "Unlimited" which designates the 4-door version.

Prior to the mid-size Cherokee and Wagoneer that people today are familiar with (from the '80s - 2001), they were based on the old "fullsize" J-series pickups. The Wagoneer was the 4 door version, the Cherokee had 2 doors. The Cherokee and the J-trucks had a vertical slot grill (about 22 slots if I recall, not the 7 that Jeep says they always have) while the Wagoneers had a more "elegant" looking grill. It seems no one likes the Wagoneer grills. Or maybe they're hard to find. Anyway, most of the Wagoneers had the vertical slot grills.

The maps are a huge help. It is difficult to get my head around all the different trails, but having things laid out in the thread helps significantly. Thanks.

Anyway, patiently awaiting MORE!

Yeah, we ended up giving away one map to a lost person on the trail, and helping another who had a national forest map figure out where they were (which was not where they thought or wanted). I had a simple hand-drawn map from an old trail guide that was very helpful, and my "sketched" map on mt GPS which was VERY helpful because it also showed exactly where we were on the map.

And back to your earlier question, "Est" is "estimated". Those are the trails I drew in by hand using the GPS base map as a guide. If the base map is correct (and it frequently was), then those lines are accurate. But I can't otherwise vouch for them.

Ok, got it. I understood JK, and by extension JL, but didn't get the "U". And I wondered if Est meant estimated. Now I know.

On the Wagoneers, that makes sense. Apparently a lot of people are restoring them now.

As for the crowds, I'm not looking for seclusion. In fact, I don't want to be the only one on the mountain. But I also don't want to be that guy that is going too slowly or having trouble negotiating the turns and holding bunches of people up.

And, I've been thinking about ratings for the trails. But I don't want to derail your wonderful trip report here, so I posted about it on my thread.

[Nothing Special]

Ok, got it. I understood JK, and by extension JL, but didn't get the "U". And I wondered if Est meant estimated. Now I know.

On the Wagoneers, that makes sense. Apparently a lot of people are restoring them now.

As for the crowds, I'm not looking for seclusion. In fact, I don't want to be the only one on the mountain. But I also don't want to be that guy that is going too slowly or having trouble negotiating the turns and holding bunches of people up.

And, I've been thinking about ratings for the trails. But I don't want to derail your wonderful trip report here, so I posted about it on my thread.

I don't think you need to worry too much about holding people up. Definitely worry about it a little! But there are places to let people get by, so as long as you have that in mind it won't be an issue. And there will be plenty of others holding people up too! We weren't the fastest out there by ANY means! In fact, about the only ones slower than us were the big groups. People were good natured about it though, everyone that passed us was still smiling!

[Nothing Special]

I don't think you need to worry too much about holding people up. Definitely worry about it a little! But there are places to let people get by, so as long as you have that in mind it won't be an issue. And there will be plenty of others holding people up too! We weren't the fastest out there by ANY means! In fact, about the only ones slower than us were the big groups. People were good natured about it though, everyone that passed us was still smiling!

Ouray Day 3: Engineer Mountain Road - Poughkeepsie Gulch - California Gulch - Animas Cutoff - Engineer Mountain Road

We decided to tackle Poughkeepsie on Day 3. We headed up Engineer Mountain Road off Highway 550 again. Nothing new to report there since we had driven it on day 1. 2.4 miles up, and about 40 minutes later we were at the lower end of Poughkeepsie Gulch. But here's another picture.

Poughkeepsie starts off tame enough, but even a lot of the tame section is pretty steep, with rather loose rocks. No trouble at all with a rear locker, but not just a gravel road either. At one point there was a slightly technical optional line that I did a couple of times, once for the camera and once for the video (my wife gets out to take pictures at the scary parts!). It was another time I was very glad for the new front locker.

Since the last time we were there 18 year ago they've added a bypass around the "worst" (or best) part of the trail. Spoiler alert, but we took the bypass on day 5. It's not the easiest trail in the world either! Shouldn't be any trouble for even a stock CJ, but a little tight in places for a fullsize. But on this day we took the main trail.

When we got to "The Wall" there was a Jeep crawling around on it with a bunch of people in ATVs set up to spectate. When I got there the Jeep driver offered to spot for me while he paused for a beer.

The Wall was a lot different from 18 years ago. The easiest route up the left side was closed, The middle was a lot more chewed up and the right side, that I had walked up with my CJ5 18 years before, looked pretty challenging. With the spotter's help I tried the right side a few times and the middle a couple. All the same result, spinning all 4 tires and going nowhere. So I backed down to reconsider.

The right side:

The middle:

About then the large group of Toyotas we'd seen on Black Bear (minus some of the greener drivers) showed up. With the bigger crowd I decided I better go or we were going to get caught in a traffic jam. I opted for the right side, planning to winch after one or two tries. I don't have any pictures of those two tries (just video), but I was successful on the second attempt (new spotters and a different line up the far left side of the hill helped).

Edit, added in December 2021: I finally started a YouTube channel, so now I can add the video we took on this trip. Here's what I have of Poughkeepsie Gulch, First is the optional crawl below The Wall, then my attempts and eventual success climbing The Wall.

The rest of the way up Poughkeepsie had plenty of little challenges to keep it fun, but nothing that ever seemed like we might not be able to do. In total it took about 3.5 hours to drive the 4.5 miles of Pughkeepsie, but that includes about 1.5 hours playing and spectating at The Wall.

Here's one pic from the top part (still below where the bypass rejoins the main trail):

And here's a picture of Lake Como, at the top of Poughkeepsie Gulch (picture taken from the start of the Hurricane Pass trail).

The rest of the day was pretty uneventful. We headed down California Gulch (40 minutes, 4.4 mies) and over the Animas Cutoff (30 minutes, 2.9 miles) intending to go up to Engineer Pass. But we decided it was getting too late, and we had two more days with really no other trails planned, so we decided to leave Engineer Pass for another day and just headed back down Engineer Mountain Road to the highway (1.5 hours, 7.0 miles). The only thing worth noting was that the last mile coming down before the Poughkeepsie Gulch turn-off involve a lot of switchbacks. Nothing that difficult, but on the GPS it looked like we were almost there, but it took another 20 minutes without looking like we were making any progress across the screen.

[Gary Lewis]

Ouray Day 3: Engineer Mountain Road - Poughkeepsie Gulch - California Gulch - Animas Cutoff - Engineer Mountain Road

We decided to tackle Poughkeepsie on Day 3. We headed up Engineer Mountain Road off Highway 550 again. Nothing new to report there since we had driven it on day 1. 2.4 miles up, and about 40 minutes later we were at the lower end of Poughkeepsie Gulch. But here's another picture.

Poughkeepsie starts off tame enough, but even a lot of the tame section is pretty steep, with rather loose rocks. No trouble at all with a rear locker, but not just a gravel road either. At one point there was a slightly technical optional line that I did a couple of times, once for the camera and once for the video (my wife gets out to take pictures at the scary parts!). It was another time I was very glad for the new front locker.

Since the last time we were there 18 year ago they've added a bypass around the "worst" (or best) part of the trail. Spoiler alert, but we took the bypass on day 5. It's not the easiest trail in the world either! Shouldn't be any trouble for even a stock CJ, but a little tight in places for a fullsize. But on this day we took the main trail.

When we got to "The Wall" there was a Jeep crawling around on it with a bunch of people in ATVs set up to spectate. When I got there the Jeep driver offered to spot for me while he paused for a beer.

The Wall was a lot different from 18 years ago. The easiest route up the left side was closed, The middle was a lot more chewed up and the right side, that I had walked up with my CJ5 18 years before, looked pretty challenging. With the spotter's help I tried the right side a few times and the middle a couple. All the same result, spinning all 4 tires and going nowhere. So I backed down to reconsider.

The right side:

The middle:

About then the large group of Toyotas we'd seen on Black Bear (minus some of the greener drivers) showed up. With the bigger crowd I decided I better go or we were going to get caught in a traffic jam. I opted for the right side, planning to winch after one or two tries. I don't have any pictures of those two tries (just video), but I was successful on the second attempt (new spotters and a different line up the far left side of the hill helped).

Edit, added in December 2021: I finally started a YouTube channel, so now I can add the video we took on this trip. Here's what I have of Poughkeepsie Gulch, First is the optional crawl below The Wall, then my attempts and eventual success climbing The Wall.

The rest of the way up Poughkeepsie had plenty of little challenges to keep it fun, but nothing that ever seemed like we might not be able to do. In total it took about 3.5 hours to drive the 4.5 miles of Pughkeepsie, but that includes about 1.5 hours playing and spectating at The Wall.

Here's one pic from the top part (still below where the bypass rejoins the main trail):

And here's a picture of Lake Como, at the top of Poughkeepsie Gulch (picture taken from the start of the Hurricane Pass trail).

The rest of the day was pretty uneventful. We headed down California Gulch (40 minutes, 4.4 mies) and over the Animas Cutoff (30 minutes, 2.9 miles) intending to go up to Engineer Pass. But we decided it was getting too late, and we had two more days with really no other trails planned, so we decided to leave Engineer Pass for another day and just headed back down Engineer Mountain Road to the highway (1.5 hours, 7.0 miles). The only thing worth noting was that the last mile coming down before the Poughkeepsie Gulch turn-off involve a lot of switchbacks. Nothing that difficult, but on the GPS it looked like we were almost there, but it took another 20 minutes without looking like we were making any progress across the screen.

Wow! That Wall looks like fun! But, I don't think it is something Big Blue would like given his front and rear overhang as well as his stiff suspension, and I'm sure Janey wouldn't.

But the views are amazing! Keep the reports coming, I'm living vicariously.