Rembrant Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Brother you’re a lifesaver!! I’ll start grabbing the pieces and go for it. If that’s ok, I’d like to pick your brain a bit more when I run into a problem. We can do it on this forum or maybe we can exchange emails/phone Happy to help on here. It's not that I mind helping offline, but like Gary said at least if it's on here it's captured information;). I swapped a 1991 M5OD-R2 into my 1984 F150 Flareside with 302. It turned out to be a very easy swap in this truck. Truck was a factory manual trans, so it already had hydraulic clutch. The M5OD was only 3/8" longer than the 3 spd I removed, so I was able to re-use my existing driveshaft and slip yoke...it just popped right in there. I even welded an NP435 4spd stick on to the 5spd stub shaft so that my truck looked like it had a period correct transmission in it. Here was the 5spd all painted up and re-sealed before I installed it. Used a rattle can of Cast Aluminum engine paint. Love that stuff! The M5OD shifter seal and bushings are notorious for falling apart (well, they are 30+ years old now). I bought all the seals and kits I think from All State Gear: https://www.allstategear.com/M5R2-RKE-5-Speed-Transmission-Parts-s/1976.htm Good idea to do the front and rear main seals if you are able to, and I recommend these two kits below: I'm a big fan of swapping a 5spd into a Bullnose. I think it is one of the best mods you can do (if not THEE best mod). I'm just a fan of having OD in general, so however one gets there, it's worth it in my mind. I'm currently building a '52 pickup, and I'm installing an auto trans with OD (an AODE/W, or 4R70W). When I swapped the M5OD into my 1980 F150 4x4 with 300/6, I had to do the firewall holes and all that. You can buy the firewall brace from JBG. I believe that is the only place you can buy one now. There was another company making them called Terrapin, but they stopped selling them a couple years ago. https://shop.broncograveyard.com/83-91-Ford-Bronco-Ford-Truck-Firewall-Clutch-Repair-Bracket/productinfo/34010/ If you install a firewall brace (and it IS a good idea), it also acts as a template so you'll know exactly where to drill the three holes in the firewall. I installed a Terrapin brace on my 1984 F150, but when I did the 1980, I made my own brace with 16ga steel, which was smaller, but still functional. And here it was installed in the 1980 cab. Regarding the hydraulic parts...you have to be a bit careful what you use, as the parts changed a few times over the generations. The 1984-1986 master cylinders are the same as the 1987-1991 master cylinders, except for the bolt pattern: If you have to drill holes in the firewall anyway, it doesn't really matter which master cylinder you use, but I tried to stick with a Bullnose master, and the for the hydraulic line and concentric slave cylinder, I ordered all new parts for a 1991, for both trucks. The master cylinders changed again in 1992, and you can use one of them also, but if you do then you'll need a 1992-up hydraulic line and slave cylinder. If you're pulling the hydraulic parts from a donor truck, pull the whole works. If you're buying new parts, then go with a 1984-1986 clutch master, and then order a line and slave cylinder for 1988-1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socnarftrucks Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Regarding the hydraulic parts...you have to be a bit careful what you use, as the parts changed a few times over the generations. The 1984-1986 master cylinders are the same as the 1987-1991 master cylinders, except for the bolt pattern: If you have to drill holes in the firewall anyway, it doesn't really matter which master cylinder you use, but I tried to stick with a Bullnose master, and the for the hydraulic line and concentric slave cylinder, I ordered all new parts for a 1991, for both trucks. The master cylinders changed again in 1992, and you can use one of them also, but if you do then you'll need a 1992-up hydraulic line and slave cylinder. If you're pulling the hydraulic parts from a donor truck, pull the whole works. If you're buying new parts, then go with a 1984-1986 clutch master, and then order a line and slave cylinder for 1988-1991. Thank you so much!! I am inspired and motivated. I already located a few transmissions nearby and will be taking a couple of days off to go and grab what I can. As far as the rest, I’ll order from those suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socnarftrucks Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 If you do it on here then everyone can learn. And we can find the discussion w/a Google search. Not so if you do it "offline". Yes, sir!! My apologies for sounding selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Thank you so much!! I am inspired and motivated. I already located a few transmissions nearby and will be taking a couple of days off to go and grab what I can. As far as the rest, I’ll order from those suppliers. When drilling the hole for the clutch master cylinder, it has to be in just the right place as it ends up almost touching the brake booster on one side, and almost touching the seam in the firewall on the other. I was lucky when I drilled the firewall in my '80 F150 as I still had the '84 to look at for reference. You can make a template easy enough with a gasket. Not trying to spook you or anything, just making some notes here to go by. If you're technical enough to handle a 5spd swap, you'll be just fine with the firewall mods to make the master cylinder work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 When drilling the hole for the clutch master cylinder, it has to be in just the right place as it ends up almost touching the brake booster on one side, and almost touching the seam in the firewall on the other. I was lucky when I drilled the firewall in my '80 F150 as I still had the '84 to look at for reference. You can make a template easy enough with a gasket. Not trying to spook you or anything, just making some notes here to go by. If you're technical enough to handle a 5spd swap, you'll be just fine with the firewall mods to make the master cylinder work. Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this. Would you consider creating a how-to? We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section. Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this. Would you consider creating a how-to? We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section. Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace? Good morning Gary! How's the Sunday coffee?? I'm already working on my second X-large! I can create a write up, sure. I can't take any new pictures as the trucks are gone and I only have what I saved previously. And yes, best time to install a Firewall brace. The reason I posted this morning was that I was thinking about the process of doing this on a truck that did not previously have a hydraulic clutch, and that you need to be somewhat careful as to where the holes go for the master cylinder. I was lucky at the time because I had both Bulls, but most people will not have a second truck to use as a reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this. Would you consider creating a how-to? We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section. Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace? Good morning Gary! How's the Sunday coffee?? I'm already working on my second X-large! I can create a write up, sure. I can't take any new pictures as the trucks are gone and I only have what I saved previously. And yes, best time to install a Firewall brace. The reason I posted this morning was that I was thinking about the process of doing this on a truck that did not previously have a hydraulic clutch, and that you need to be somewhat careful as to where the holes go for the master cylinder. I was lucky at the time because I had both Bulls, but most people will not have a second truck to use as a reference. Morning! I'm on the 2nd cup as well. Starbucks Verona. Dark, but smooooth. Please do a how-to. Nothing urgent, but you are in an excellent position to do it. As for the brace, in case others have a question, our page at Documentation/Driveline/Clutches & Linkage says: The hydraulic linkage seems to be pretty robust, save for the problem of the firewalls cracking - keep reading. But the mechanical linkage seems to always be badly worn by this time. And I can only think of two approaches to resolve that problem - repair the linkage or replace it with the hydraulic linkage used in the 1983 and later trucks. And while the latter would seem to be the cleanest solution, it isn't without its problems, the major one of which is the firewall as it wasn't designed for the forces it sees with a hydraulic linkage. With a mechanical linkage the firewall sees up/down forces when you depress the clutch pedal as the linkage runs almost straight down from the clutch pedal's arm to the Z-bar - as shown below. And, in that plane the firewall is quite stiff. However, the forces seen by the firewall when using a hydraulic linkage are in/out, and in that plane the firewall isn't as strong. In fact, Ford put out a TSB on this for all 1984 and later trucks as several of the firewalls cracked and the clutches wouldn't release all the way. The fix was to install a brace that stiffens the firewall significantly, and Ford had two different braces, as shown on the Hydraulic/Parts List tab: E3TZ 7K509-A for minimal flex; and E3TZ 7K509-B for "severely damaged" firewalls. A brace of some kind really should be added if one is converting from a mechanical linkage to hydraulic. Unfortunately the Ford braces are no longer readily available. Even worse, Terrapin Manufacturing made a brace, but they've gone out of business. There are a few of the Ford braces and a few of the Terrapin ones floating around, but very few. However, Bronco Graveyard has one that looks good for $79. That may be out of date as there has been some discussion about it in several places. But I know that if I was to add a hydraulic linkage to a Bullnose I'd add at least the small brace to ensure I didn't have problems down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socnarftrucks Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Cory - You are doing a wonderful job with this. Would you consider creating a how-to? We could put your writeup and pics in the Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Resources & How-To's › How-To's section. Also, while he's installing the clutch master wouldn't that be a good time to add a firewall brace? I will also be documenting the journey with plenty of photographs and lessons learned. I can pass those along if you’d like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlisle Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I will also be documenting the journey with plenty of photographs and lessons learned. I can pass those along if you’d like. I have this trans in my truck, 81, 302. I have NO idea if it was done correctly or not. It works well. I can agree that if you can get the higher hump, it might be better. Mine doesn't have that and the floor is almost right on the trans. At 60, it runs about 2000 - 2100 rpm. I figure that is pretty good from other cars I've driven but the mpg is still around 10. Still going through things looking to see what might need adjusting. They installers? or someone painted the whole thing dark blue. INcluding the ID tag. No tag on my rear. From a couple charts, I'm guessing I may have a 3.55 (i think it was) rear gear. Somewhere I have a listing for the shift boot part I had to use to be "right". https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VMHG4LN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And it still doesn't sit flat on the floor. But I do have it sealed from air coming up through the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I have this trans in my truck, 81, 302. I have NO idea if it was done correctly or not. It works well. I can agree that if you can get the higher hump, it might be better. Mine doesn't have that and the floor is almost right on the trans. At 60, it runs about 2000 - 2100 rpm. I figure that is pretty good from other cars I've driven but the mpg is still around 10. Still going through things looking to see what might need adjusting. They installers? or someone painted the whole thing dark blue. INcluding the ID tag. No tag on my rear. From a couple charts, I'm guessing I may have a 3.55 (i think it was) rear gear. Somewhere I have a listing for the shift boot part I had to use to be "right". https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VMHG4LN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And it still doesn't sit flat on the floor. But I do have it sealed from air coming up through the hole. 2000 rpm at 60 is about what I would expect in fourth gear. I bet the truck runs and drives great and goes through the gears good also. I am using a different goal on builds as I'm wanting to keep mpg at least a consideration. I like 2000 rpm to be giving 70 mph at least 75 would be about right imo. I don't remember the od ratio of the m5 but I have the aod/w (modified with .70 od) in dolly with the roller 5.0 and 3.73 rear gear and I cruise at 2000 rpm at 72 mph on stock size tires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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