Gary Lewis Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Gary, This is the starter that I used. https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/ford-mini-starter-truck-van-mercury-460-engine-3226-sfd0030.html Carl Well, comparing your pic to the one of that starter from the DB site it looks like you are wired correctly. The terminal at about 7:00 is the pull-in for the solenoid. The one at 12:00 is the input to the solenoid, and the one at 6:00 is the output to the starter. So I'm bumfuzzled. I'm going to tag Bill to see if he has any suggestions. Bill - When this starter is wired the normal PMGR way, as soon as power is applied the fuel pump comes on. Pull the blue fuse link from the I terminal and it stops. Put the large starter wire on the output of the starter relay, along with the trigger wire, and it works correctly - save for the run-on of the starter after releasing the key, which is caused by the starter working as a generator. And, when he tests with the DVM he finds no connection between the hot terminal and the pull-in terminal on the starter. I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Well, comparing your pic to the one of that starter from the DB site it looks like you are wired correctly. The terminal at about 7:00 is the pull-in for the solenoid. The one at 12:00 is the input to the solenoid, and the one at 6:00 is the output to the starter. So I'm bumfuzzled. I'm going to tag Bill to see if he has any suggestions. Bill - When this starter is wired the normal PMGR way, as soon as power is applied the fuel pump comes on. Pull the blue fuse link from the I terminal and it stops. Put the large starter wire on the output of the starter relay, along with the trigger wire, and it works correctly - save for the run-on of the starter after releasing the key, which is caused by the starter working as a generator. And, when he tests with the DVM he finds no connection between the hot terminal and the pull-in terminal on the starter. I'm lost. Ok, first things first, picture shows the old style Ford starter relay, Darth had and still does have the newer flat style relay. On the relay on your truck, the two small terminals, are they labeled? They should have S and I on them. The reason I ask, AMC used a similar relay, but the two small terminals were 1 & 2 in I remember correctly. They are the two ends of the coil as AMC was using Chrysler Torqueflite transmissions that have a single contact for the starter relay as a center pin. This grounds the relay allowing the starter to operate. The other item, I am using a Precision Certi-Pro starter on Darth (second one first finally died about a year ago), I have no idea where the DB is made, but 3226 is the correct number for the automatic transmission one (3225 is for manual transmissions). I would start with a correct starter relay as I feel it is probably the wrong one or is shorted internally. Here is the way Darth's looks (battery cables have been changed to the actual later style since that picture was taken). The small copper colored stud behind the molded cable connection is the I terminal and isn't used with EFI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Ok, first things first, picture shows the old style Ford starter relay, Darth had and still does have the newer flat style relay. On the relay on your truck, the two small terminals, are they labeled? They should have S and I on them. The reason I ask, AMC used a similar relay, but the two small terminals were 1 & 2 in I remember correctly. They are the two ends of the coil as AMC was using Chrysler Torqueflite transmissions that have a single contact for the starter relay as a center pin. This grounds the relay allowing the starter to operate. The other item, I am using a Precision Certi-Pro starter on Darth (second one first finally died about a year ago), I have no idea where the DB is made, but 3226 is the correct number for the automatic transmission one (3225 is for manual transmissions). I would start with a correct starter relay as I feel it is probably the wrong one or is shorted internally. Here is the way Darth's looks (battery cables have been changed to the actual later style since that picture was taken). The small copper colored stud behind the molded cable connection is the I terminal and isn't used with EFI. Thanks, Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Thanks, Bill! Thanks Bill, Yes the small terminals are labeled “S” and “I” This is a pic of the end of the box that the starter came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Thanks Bill, Yes the small terminals are labeled “S” and “I” This is a pic of the end of the box that the starter came in. Exactly what I suspected "Made in China". Can I get you to try some tests, first do you have a multimeter or maybe a test light? If so, then first, starter disconnected from the battery feed, wrap the starter end in a shop rag or similar so it can't short if you took it loose there. Key on, jump the S to battery, relay should make a solid "clunk" and I terminal and starter terminal should be live with battery voltage. Remove the jumper, if the starter and I terminals do not immediately loose power, go get a new relay as you have found the problem. If this test passes, you now need either a powered test light or multimeter. Using the light or meter, measure the resistance from I to the starter stud on the relay, it should be an open circuit as they are two separate contacts internally. The next one is more fun, take the positive cable off the battery, measure resistance across the relay main studs and to I. Using a jumper, activate the relay without the battery positive connected to it and again measure the resistance across and to I, it should be near 0 ohms. Leaving the meter connected, remove power from the S terminal and see again, if the relay "hangs" engaged. This is your homework assignment for tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 Exactly what I suspected "Made in China". Can I get you to try some tests, first do you have a multimeter or maybe a test light? If so, then first, starter disconnected from the battery feed, wrap the starter end in a shop rag or similar so it can't short if you took it loose there. Key on, jump the S to battery, relay should make a solid "clunk" and I terminal and starter terminal should be live with battery voltage. Remove the jumper, if the starter and I terminals do not immediately loose power, go get a new relay as you have found the problem. If this test passes, you now need either a powered test light or multimeter. Using the light or meter, measure the resistance from I to the starter stud on the relay, it should be an open circuit as they are two separate contacts internally. The next one is more fun, take the positive cable off the battery, measure resistance across the relay main studs and to I. Using a jumper, activate the relay without the battery positive connected to it and again measure the resistance across and to I, it should be near 0 ohms. Leaving the meter connected, remove power from the S terminal and see again, if the relay "hangs" engaged. This is your homework assignment for tonight. Hopefully it will warm up enough today to get these tests conducted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Exactly what I suspected "Made in China". Can I get you to try some tests, first do you have a multimeter or maybe a test light? If so, then first, starter disconnected from the battery feed, wrap the starter end in a shop rag or similar so it can't short if you took it loose there. Key on, jump the S to battery, relay should make a solid "clunk" and I terminal and starter terminal should be live with battery voltage. Remove the jumper, if the starter and I terminals do not immediately loose power, go get a new relay as you have found the problem. If this test passes, you now need either a powered test light or multimeter. Using the light or meter, measure the resistance from I to the starter stud on the relay, it should be an open circuit as they are two separate contacts internally. The next one is more fun, take the positive cable off the battery, measure resistance across the relay main studs and to I. Using a jumper, activate the relay without the battery positive connected to it and again measure the resistance across and to I, it should be near 0 ohms. Leaving the meter connected, remove power from the S terminal and see again, if the relay "hangs" engaged. This is your homework assignment for tonight. First class, Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbarnes Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 Exactly what I suspected "Made in China". Can I get you to try some tests, first do you have a multimeter or maybe a test light? If so, then first, starter disconnected from the battery feed, wrap the starter end in a shop rag or similar so it can't short if you took it loose there. Key on, jump the S to battery, relay should make a solid "clunk" and I terminal and starter terminal should be live with battery voltage. Remove the jumper, if the starter and I terminals do not immediately loose power, go get a new relay as you have found the problem. If this test passes, you now need either a powered test light or multimeter. Using the light or meter, measure the resistance from I to the starter stud on the relay, it should be an open circuit as they are two separate contacts internally. The next one is more fun, take the positive cable off the battery, measure resistance across the relay main studs and to I. Using a jumper, activate the relay without the battery positive connected to it and again measure the resistance across and to I, it should be near 0 ohms. Leaving the meter connected, remove power from the S terminal and see again, if the relay "hangs" engaged. This is your homework assignment for tonight. Did the tests, or at least the first one. It indicated that I needed a new solenoid. Picked a new style up this morning from NAPA. Got home, put it on, and viola!!! No pumps running. Started right up with no starter overrun. I am a happy camper. Thanks so much Bill! New tank, fuel pump/fuel level sensor came in, so now to get started changing it out. Thanks again guys, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Did the tests, or at least the first one. It indicated that I needed a new solenoid. Picked a new style up this morning from NAPA. Got home, put it on, and viola!!! No pumps running. Started right up with no starter overrun. I am a happy camper. Thanks so much Bill! New tank, fuel pump/fuel level sensor came in, so now to get started changing it out. Thanks again guys, Carl Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Did the tests, or at least the first one. It indicated that I needed a new solenoid. Picked a new style up this morning from NAPA. Got home, put it on, and viola!!! No pumps running. Started right up with no starter overrun. I am a happy camper. Thanks so much Bill! New tank, fuel pump/fuel level sensor came in, so now to get started changing it out. Thanks again guys, Carl Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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