Blacktop Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hi, I'm considering upgrading the stock starter on my F100 straight 6 manual to a pmgr version. Anyone know which model trucks had a compatible 9 tooth pmgr starter from the factory? Searching rockauto seems to show the later trucks had the 10 tooth starter. I believe my manual trans 300 i-6 has a 9 tooth starter🤔 Many thanks, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Good question, Alan! We have information on the wiring of this in our documentation > electrical > PMGR starter wiring, but no findings on the gears. I can't remember when Ford started putting PMGR starters in our trucks but assumed first year could be used. Bad to assume! I'm sure Gary will pipe in on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Good question, Alan! We have information on the wiring of this in our documentation > electrical > PMGR starter wiring, but no findings on the gears. I can't remember when Ford started putting PMGR starters in our trucks but assumed first year could be used. Bad to assume! I'm sure Gary will pipe in on this. Gary doesn't know. But, looking at the MPC I do see that there's a date of 12/83 when things changed. Prior to that date the 300, 302, 351W engines took one set of starters and after that a different set. So I'm guessing that is the date when the change in the tooth count happened. Just called DB Electrical and talked to Nichole. They don't have a PMGR starter for that application with a 9-toothed gear. Their 410-14033 is PMGR and fits a 300/302/351W w/a manual transmission, but it has 10 teeth on the gear. But the MPC says all 300's from 1980 through the end of the catalog, which is 1989, used the same manual transmission flywheel - E0TZ 6375-A. So, will a 10-toothed starter work? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Gary doesn't know. But, looking at the MPC I do see that there's a date of 12/83 when things changed. Prior to that date the 300, 302, 351W engines took one set of starters and after that a different set. So I'm guessing that is the date when the change in the tooth count happened. Just called DB Electrical and talked to Nichole. They don't have a PMGR starter for that application with a 9-toothed gear. Their 410-14033 is PMGR and fits a 300/302/351W w/a manual transmission, but it has 10 teeth on the gear. But the MPC says all 300's from 1980 through the end of the catalog, which is 1989, used the same manual transmission flywheel - E0TZ 6375-A. So, will a 10-toothed starter work? I don't know. Thanks for the detective work😁 When I get chance, I'll drop the starter and confirm it is 9 tooth rather than 10. Just my luck that the tooth count changed. I may be restricted to just replacing with like for like. Although, perhaps I might source one aftermarket but I doubt it. Cheers, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Thanks for the detective work😁 When I get chance, I'll drop the starter and confirm it is 9 tooth rather than 10. Just my luck that the tooth count changed. I may be restricted to just replacing with like for like. Although, perhaps I might source one aftermarket but I doubt it. Cheers, Alan Is this going on an 8 or 6 cylinder engine? I looked for my 351 equipped truck via RockAuto and see starters with 9 teeth for my truck. First PMGR starter for F150 with 351 appears to be 1992 via RockAuto and it is 10 teeth. Wondering if this is a RockAuto screw up or they indeed did change from 9-10 teeth. I know people have done this mod and I don't recall this particular conversation. So yes, please post your findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Thanks for the detective work😁 When I get chance, I'll drop the starter and confirm it is 9 tooth rather than 10. Just my luck that the tooth count changed. I may be restricted to just replacing with like for like. Although, perhaps I might source one aftermarket but I doubt it. Cheers, Alan I believe my son determined that the 1990 Lincoln Town car 5.0L PMGR starter fits the 300 six and 302/351W V8s with automatic transmissions. He worked for LKQ corp at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I believe my son determined that the 1990 Lincoln Town car 5.0L PMGR starter fits the 300 six and 302/351W V8s with automatic transmissions. He worked for LKQ corp at the time. Bill, RockAuto shows it to be 10 teeth too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Is this going on an 8 or 6 cylinder engine? I looked for my 351 equipped truck via RockAuto and see starters with 9 teeth for my truck. First PMGR starter for F150 with 351 appears to be 1992 via RockAuto and it is 10 teeth. Wondering if this is a RockAuto screw up or they indeed did change from 9-10 teeth. I know people have done this mod and I don't recall this particular conversation. So yes, please post your findings. Its a 1980 300 I6 with manual trans so I believe it has the 9 tooth starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Its a 1980 300 I6 with manual trans so I believe it has the 9 tooth starter. I don't know anything about starter bendix teeth count, but I know the conversation does come up once in a while. If it's any help, I installed a PMGR starter on my 1980 F150 with 300 inline 6, and that PMGR starter came from a 1996 F150 with 300/6. I didn't count the teeth, but I did remove it from that 1996 F150 myself, and installed it on the 1980, and it worked great! So while I can't guarantee the teeth counts, I can guarantee the year differences. The 164 tooth flywheels didn't change. I kinda miss that old '80 sometimes. It was a cool truck...in a "if ya squint, it's mint" kinda way! PS: If it's any help, I have a new PMGR starter here in my garage, and it has 10 teeth. It's for my 5.0L build, and I believe I ordered it for a 1996 F150 w/5.0L V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I don't know anything about starter bendix teeth count, but I know the conversation does come up once in a while. If it's any help, I installed a PMGR starter on my 1980 F150 with 300 inline 6, and that PMGR starter came from a 1996 F150 with 300/6. I didn't count the teeth, but I did remove it from that 1996 F150 myself, and installed it on the 1980, and it worked great! So while I can't guarantee the teeth counts, I can guarantee the year differences. The 164 tooth flywheels didn't change. I kinda miss that old '80 sometimes. It was a cool truck...in a "if ya squint, it's mint" kinda way! PS: If it's any help, I have a new PMGR starter here in my garage, and it has 10 teeth. It's for my 5.0L build, and I believe I ordered it for a 1996 F150 w/5.0L V8. I think that's a big help, Cory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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